Sheryl Wigg RIB Disqualification Decision

[Chief Stipe]

50 minutes ago, the galah said:

Her current spell on the sidelines is just part of her harness racing journey, not her final destination. 

What a sanctimonious comment!

[Brodie]

51 minutes ago, the galah said:

Her current spell on the sidelines is just part of her harness racing journey, not her final destination. 

Not too sure what you mean by that?

I believe she can still be an amateur driver which she is extremely good at!

I do not know her personally, however on the face of it, the training of horses is due to Tim Vince.

Tim has had enough of the beurocracy and you can see him pulling stumps and you couldnt blame him!

 

Edited March 9, 2022 by Brodie

[Chief Stipe]

How to deworm your horse using Ivermectin.

[the galah]

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

What a sanctimonious comment!

I have to admit i don't get where your coming from with that comment.

But i gave it some thought for two minutes and my conclusion was i had just wasted two minutes of my time.. 

So no more words from me for you to twist.

[the galah]

3 hours ago, Brodie said:

Not too sure what you mean by that?

I believe she can still be an amateur driver which she is extremely good at!

I do not know her personally, however on the face of it, the training of horses is due to Tim Vince.

Tim has had enough of the beurocracy and you can see him pulling stumps and you couldnt blame him!

 

It was a quote from confucius i remember. No more of those,ever.

Edited March 9, 2022 by the galah

[Dave]

As someone that has known Mr Vince for a number of years now dont be suprised if he moves over the tasman to restart his training career, whether Miss Wigg will follow him I would have no idea.

Harness in the north is dying and I dont see much stopping it from disappearing totally in the next couple of years, one only has to look at the patheticly low fields at Alex Park in recent times.

[Gammalite]

A great level of disrespect for authority comes to a head on forums.

Not just governments slammed for 'making decisions ' for the well-fare of the nation. But racing rules as well.

Rules are Rules. You break them , you are penalised . (just as you would be for breaking road rules whether you think are 'Stupid rules ' or Not. you can't make exemptions for excuses .

I'm sure Ms Wigg realises that and can cop it on the chin. (her penalty)

Really the stuff tubed on race-day is quite benign as well , but has some effect on performance. So it's not really the 'CONTENT ' of the syringe on raceday that is the rule breaker. It was syringing and/or tubing action. 

Most QLD stables tube drench the day after the race , to aid recovery. Raceday administration is not an option. Race day treatments via Syringe/ tube are banned.

Therefore through this thread the Galah is correct. Penalty stands unfortunately. (for her)

Rules are Rules. Foul play would be commonplace without them?.. Mr Alford.

[Chief Stipe]

9 hours ago, the galah said:

I have to admit i don't get where your coming from with that comment.

But i gave it some thought for two minutes and my conclusion was i had just wasted two minutes of my time.. 

So no more words from me for you to twist.

Your comment dripped with sanctimony (unless of course your were genuine in your sentiment) and now that I've thought about it hypocrisy.

You haven't been as compassionate about other recent cases e.g. Anderson.  Will you say the same for Cam Jones?

[Chief Stipe]

7 hours ago, Gammalite said:

Rules are Rules. You break them , you are penalised . (just as you would be for breaking road rules whether you think are 'Stupid rules ' or Not. you can't make exemptions for excuses

Road rules are a classic.  If speed limits were enforced then every car would be speed limited at manufacture.

The point is this Rule is farcical.  As I said earlier no one is questioning the fact that Wigg was caught under the rule.  

However it is head in the sand material to not debate the efficacy of the rule, its effectiveness and efficiency.  Is it a poor rule that needs review?

Is it a rule that encourages incompetence?  We see a glaring example of that in the Wigg case.

Could limited resources be better directed elsewhere in achieving the goal of PED free racing?

Those who suggest that Wigg was attempting to gain an advantage by using Turmeric and Black Pepper are in la la land and a broadening of the term performance enhancing beyond what is practical.  Indeed if one broadened the definition to the extent some of you are then the health and welfare of racehorse would be in jeopardy.

For example if Tumeric and Black Pepper are performance enhancing then administering orally via a spoon should be banned as well as adding to the feed bin.

Hell why not ban water and feed on raceday as they are performance enhancing by broad definition.

The fact is the RIB mounted an expensive operation, found nothing in terms of PED's, failed to do standard testing and had to fall back on a catch all Rule.

[hunterthepunter]

13 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

How to deworm your horse using Ivermectin.

would you get one year for being caught worming a horse? plus say another 6 years if you told them to get off your property the rules are very grim

[Gammalite]

11 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

However it is head in the sand material to not debate the efficacy of the rule, its effectiveness and efficiency.  Is it a poor rule that needs review?

Is it a rule that encourages incompetence?  We see a glaring example of that in the Wigg case.

Could limited resources be better directed elsewhere in achieving the goal of PED free racing?

My personal opinion is its a good rule. (No syringe or Tubing raceday)

Solution = Tell Ms Wigg to use a spoon or feedbin as suggested on this thread,  and/or  worm on a day that is Not raceday . very easy. She probably will from now on too lol.......

I've been to the races with trainers who have sneaked a syringe of something in the truck or at the 'wash bay' was more common so you could wash the neck a bit to hide injection evidence if need be. you are just cooling 'hot' horse after transport apparently. 

Whether you think 'Stewards in trees' spying is bad for Wigg , etc , or whether caught by dobbers (possibly like Alford) or even seen from outer space satellite , or long distance binoculars, if trainers break the rules , they deserve to get caught.???

(including those road driving at 70kph in the 60 zone, etc IMO lol... I always drive at the limit or under speed or drink and have had NO Penalties therefore ??  It's easy .

Race driving has rules too. But blame the horse for errors (interference, etc)  then, lol........  and there are a lot of 'silly rules' too. BUT you just have to go along with them , OR do something else altogeather where you can follow the 'rules'. many did with the silly whip rules too !!!

[Rangatira]

3 hours ago, hunterthepunter said:

would you get one year for being caught worming a horse? plus say another 6 years if you told them to get off your property the rules are very grim

Being an industry outsider it surprises me that trainers would want to worm their horse on raceday. 

[Chief Stipe]

3 hours ago, Gammalite said:

My personal opinion is its a good rule. (No syringe or Tubing raceday)

Solution = Tell Ms Wigg to use a spoon or feedbin as suggested on this thread,  and/or  worm on a day that is Not raceday . very easy. She probably will from now on too lol.......

I've been to the races with trainers who have sneaked a syringe of something in the truck or at the 'wash bay' was more common so you could wash the neck a bit to hide injection evidence if need be. you are just cooling 'hot' horse after transport apparently. 

Whether you think 'Stewards in trees' spying is bad for Wigg , etc , or whether caught by dobbers (possibly like Alford) or even seen from outer space satellite , or long distance binoculars, if trainers break the rules , they deserve to get caught.???

(including those road driving at 70kph in the 60 zone, etc IMO lol... I always drive at the limit or under speed or drink and have had NO Penalties therefore ??  It's easy .

Race driving has rules too. But blame the horse for errors (interference, etc)  then, lol........  and there are a lot of 'silly rules' too. BUT you just have to go along with them , OR do something else altogeather where you can follow the 'rules'. many did with the silly whip rules too !!!

@Gammalite why do you persist in NOT debating the real issues here?  @the galah is the same.  You are both old school Trainers/Drivers.  Surely we can use science to get past Stipes hiding in hedges and enforcing dumb ass rules that hide their incompetence?  The reality is some Trainers will still be syringing Turmeric and Black Pepper on raceday purely because they have far more sophistication in monitoring the arrival on their properties of strangers wearing black suits, fluro vests and flak jackets.

The Wigg conviction has done NOTHING to improve the integrity of harness racing.  Nor does the no syringing on raceday rule.  What it has been is a costly exercise that has DONE NOTHING to either improve integrity or identify and eliminate PED use in racing.

The cost expended would have been better spent on improving and increasing the number of out of racing tests, pre-race testing and post race swabbing.  Why has the RIB invested millions and millions of dollars in a testing laboratory (when they could have sub-contracted some testing) and then fail to use it in a case like the Wigg case?

Should the RIB invest millions and millions more in their Testing Lab?

[Taupiri Wonder]

14 hours ago, Dave said:

As someone that has known Mr Vince for a number of years now dont be suprised if he moves over the tasman to restart his training career, whether Miss Wigg will follow him I would have no idea.

Well Dave,I would be totally surprised if your prediction happens!!

I believe Mr Vince has "been there.done that"..as far as his training aspirations go (104 Winners Tally).

However,some more horses could cross the Tasman pronto.

Getn Wiggy Withit (R52/2 race winner) already booked to fly to Perth to join ex-stablemate Vespa.

Vespa left NZ as 4 race winner $39k,winning last start at Cambridge Amateur R35-53 with Miss Wigg in sulky.Has now boosted earnings to A$147k

[Brodie]

At the end of the day we have to agree to disagree, as some will agree with disqualifying Ms. Wigg for 17 months for syringing a horse with a legal substance on race day, everyones perogative.

Some will say it is a rule that she broke but didnt deserve to be hammered with such as severe penalty, and I am on that side.

However the major point is that harness racing in the north can not afford to keep hammering owners, trainers and drivers!!!

No it doesnt affect any of us at all apart from the fact that it is another nail in the coffin up there for harness racing.

There are several trainers in the Auckland area that are just hanging in there financially and also many that will be giving the training away in the next year or two!

Sheryll Wigg probably is now feeling like not training again in NZ as there js buggerall money in it!

Anyway each to their own as to opinion and the fact that we can express on BOAY is due to the Chief and long may it happen!

[Rangatira]

54 minutes ago, Brodie said:

However the major point is that harness racing in the north can not afford to keep hammering owners, trainers and drivers!!!

What is your solution?

[Brodie]

3 hours ago, Rangatira said:

What is your solution?

Use commonsense Ranga.

Give Ms. Wigg a fine for what she did but taking her livelihood off her when so many are struggling is just blatantly pathetic.

We are being run by a total bunch of muppets in all divisions!! 

[Gammalite]

7 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

The Wigg conviction has done NOTHING to improve the integrity of harness racing.  Nor does the no syringing on raceday rule.  What it has been is a costly exercise that has DONE NOTHING to either improve integrity or identify and eliminate PED use in racing.

Can see what you are saying about a large penalty for frivolous things. But Integrity IS NOT BEING Lost.

Steve Smith got large suspension penalty costing him millions $ because someone in his team used Sandpaper on a cricket Ball )  frivolous beyond belief IMO. People have been rubbing the ball on pants buttons , bottle caps , etc for decades. Did it myself. 

If people ARE BEING caught and PENALISED Chief ....... this means Integrity is HIGH . Rules breaks are Not Ignored. All good .....

Mr Galah is on the money , Integrity is being shown with ENFORCING the RULES . all good.

BTW I think getting speeding tickets for small breaks of the speed limit is frivolous too, but you need rules ......... and you need to penalise the rule breakers ????  Steve Smith didn't even touch the ball himself so was well and truly 'Ripped Off ' lol...........

[hunterthepunter]

8 hours ago, Rangatira said:

Being an industry outsider 

more like being the Big chief insider stalking on here

[Chief Stipe]

19 hours ago, Gammalite said:

If people ARE BEING caught and PENALISED Chief ....... this means Integrity is HIGH . Rules breaks are Not Ignored. All good .....

Mr Galah is on the money , Integrity is being shown with ENFORCING the RULES . all good.

@the galah has made many posts inferring that there is PED cheating occurring in NZ.  @Enteebee has done the same - more so behind a private forum.  @Thomass often posted about the inconsistency in TCO2 testing between Gallops vs Harness and North vs South Island.

Now no one is questioning that Wigg broke the rules and should have received a penalty.  However there are widely different views on what that penalty should have been.  I tend to agree with the view that her misdemeanour was at a very low end of the scale and her punishment has been disproportionate.  She didn't inject the horse with a needle, she didn't tube the horse and she didn't administer a PED.  She used a syringe to administer Turmeric, Black Pepper and Glucose.  If it wasn't so expensive to do so if I were her I would appeal the penalty.

The fact is this episode has done nothing to quell the rumours about widespread PED use.  In this case the RIB have shown serious flaws in their procedures - it is apparent their focus is on the kill rather than doing their job competently, cost effectively and efficiently.  "YES, we got you Wigg!  We found you using a syringe!"......woops we forgot to test the blood for TCO2 levels.  Woops we didn't test what was in the syringe....

With regard to the latter my understanding is if it wasn't for Leo Molloy's insistence then the RIB wouldn't have done any testing of the contents of the syringe.  The reason being they had their evidence to charge using the catch-all rule and didn't want to use any budget to test in the Lab!  Now that is another area for investigation - if the Lab is owned and funded by the RIB why are they reluctant to use it and why does it cost so much?  Wigg's costs of defence were magnified significantly by forcing the RIB to test - who then passed as much of the costs as they could onto her.

Yet @Gammalite/ @the galah you are comfortable that this case does something to encourage a positive view of integrity in the industry?  Are you really comfortable that it took someone like Molloy to prove that there were no PED's administered?

19 hours ago, Gammalite said:

BTW I think getting speeding tickets for small breaks of the speed limit is frivolous too, but you need rules ......... and you need to penalise the rule breakers ????

But some rules are daft.  For example they are lowering the speed limit on ALL Northland roads from 100km/hr to 80km/hr.  Why?  Because speeding kills?  NO - because speed on shit roads with crap drivers in crap cars kills.  So do they fix the roads?  Yeah Na!

When the Government through their agencies e.g. the Police enforce the road speed rules they have a limited budget.  They don't tail every car driver - too costly.  They certainly don't wait for a call from an informant to say that Jill at 104 Bogan Road drives too fast and that she should be raided.  No they target problem areas and use technology to control the speed limit.  

The fundamental basis to my argument is that the RIB are not effectively nor efficiently using their limited resources and science to improve integrity around the suspected use of PED's.  BTW I don't believe there is widespread use of PED's in the industry.  How many extra TCO2 tests, out of competition testing, pre-race and post race swabbing could have been funded with the millions spent on this old school hiding in hedges stuff?  The millions spent on legal fees?

Even the 10's of thousands of dollars spent on catching and convicting Wigg for using a syringe (common tool used daily in a stable) to orally administer Turmeric, Black Pepper and Glucose.

[Rangatira]

19 hours ago, Brodie said:

Use commonsense Ranga.

Give Ms. Wigg a fine for what she did but taking her livelihood off her when so many are struggling is just blatantly pathetic.

We are being run by a total bunch of muppets in all divisions!! 

Is this a North Island solution or Nationwide ?

[Rangatira]

17 hours ago, hunterthepunter said:

more like being the Big chief insider stalking on here