AWT

[Huey]

4 hours ago, Bill said:

Another satisfied trainer with the Cambridge AWT surface. Huge asset.

 

Trainer Ben Foote believes the Cambridge polytrack has been a godsend for the racing industry over winter and he took full advantage of his home track once again on Wednesday.

Cathay Empress got Foote’s day off to a winning start in the NZB Pearl Insurance Race (1550m) and two races later Ultimate Focus realised his potential when winning the Liquorland Cambridge 1300 by six lengths over stablemate Jimmy Dean.

“It was more about teaching this horse; he has got all the ability in the world,” Foote said.

“But to do it the way he did it didn’t surprise me.”

The Smart Missile gelding could return to the track for one more hit-out before heading for a spell.

“I don’t know whether to tip him out now or go for that final here next month,” Foote said.

He was also impressed by the runner-up effort of Jimmy Dean.

“He has got stacks of ability, but he is a little bit weird and doesn’t know where to put his legs sometimes,” Foote said.

“We even planned on leading today but he had no interest early. His last 400m was quite exceptional, so I am rapt.”

Earlier on the card Cathay Empress secured her second career win.

“She came to me after already having a wind op,” Foote said.

“She won’t raise a gallop on the grass, but the polytrack she seems to love it. If she can get out into a rhythm, and breathing properly, she has got stacks of ability.”

To continue Foote’s pleasing day, High Choice recorded a runner-up result in the ITM/GIB Progressive Winter Championship (1550m).

“I thought it was a matter of what he was going to win by at the 200m and Michael (McNab, jockey) just said he wanted to stay next to the other horse,” Foote said.

“We just might have to put a bit of gear on him. He is a horse that will be alright in the future.”

Reflecting on a positive day, Foote said he will continue to take full advantage of the all-weather track on his doorstep.

“I train here, we have trials here all the time, and races in the winter,” Foote said.

“We know what we are going to get when we come here. It is a huge asset to the industry.

“I do well here but we are not having to worry about grass tracks at this time of year, there is no pulling the pin on races or trials after a couple of heats.

“It is good racing and there is a good atmosphere here as well.

“I think it is worth its weight in gold.”

What you mean a trainer who won a race on the track got asked if he liked it and he did , I'm astounded!

[Bill]

4 hours ago, Huey said:

What you mean a trainer who won a race on the track got asked if he liked it and he did , I'm astounded!

One who trains on it everyday and knows what its like. Should try it one day old mate instead of moaning all the time.

great surface

[Freda]

On 14/06/2022 at 3:42 PM, Joe Bloggs said:

Honest answer please team? How many horses does Mills race?

Not sure.

Shares in at least two, but may be more.

[Freda]

3 hours ago, Bill said:

One who trains on it everyday and knows what its like. Should try it one day old mate instead of moaning all the time.

great surface

It is a great surface for training.  Absolutely.   No one is saying that they are not valuable for training, or for giving horses which prefer firmer going somewhere to run during the winter months.

But, the point that you and many miss, is that in these straitened times, does the investment of [public] funds and the closure of provincial tracks look likely to grow interest in racing?  increase revenue?  I won't say turnover, so many waffle on about turnover being the metric,  but even a mathematical idiot like me can realise that turnover and profit are not synonymous.

[Doomed]

6 hours ago, Bill said:

One who trains on it everyday and knows what its like. Should try it one day old mate instead of moaning all the time.

great surface

I'm sure it is a great surface, as it should be for $15m, and no one would argue it's not a nice thing to have. The trouble comes when it is promoted as the answer to all of racing's problems and funded at the expense of other tracks and facilities that many consider just as important. I'm still waiting for the AWTs to prevent the first abandoned meeting: that was their big selling point by Winston.

[Huey]

3 hours ago, Freda said:

It is a great surface for training.  Absolutely.   No one is saying that they are not valuable for training, or for giving horses which prefer firmer going somewhere to run during the winter months.

But, the point that you and many miss, is that in these straitened times, does the investment of [public] funds and the closure of provincial tracks look likely to grow interest in racing?  increase revenue?  I won't say turnover, so many waffle on about turnover being the metric,  but even a mathematical idiot like me can realise that turnover and profit are not synonymous.

Without delving into the details that create the profit i.e. takeout margins , field sizes etc then Wagering turnover is one of the metrics to measure the success of the things by surely?

I stand by my opinion , they are an absolutely awful look for racing, if they are so good the industry should be begging for racing on them, but that is not happening.

I still believe the surface ARC is putting in was/is the best solution for the industry, given participation and horse numbers something like that will quickly make the AWT very insignificant .

As for training solutions , there are many other options that could have been created for the money thats been spent.

[Joe Bloggs]

There's an AWT going in here on the coast, work on the track has already begun, it's going to be a dogs breakfast as lights are going in also,, two of the biggest stables in the country are now here, they will support the track when we have torrential rain, no doubt, when you have 300 horses on your books and one stable has 480, you have to race them, sometimes 6-7 in one race, so those stables will prop up numbers, but in general the consensus is, it's a last resort, and you only have to look at the rabble on the Sunny coast, where many of the fields are spread out over a furlong, and the kick back has become terrible.

At least it gives some horses longevity, as a winning trainer said recently, ''Wont go an inch on grass, but grows an extra leg on the AWT'' I bet his owners have a grin from ear to ear.

[Huey]

7 hours ago, Bill said:

One who trains on it everyday and knows what its like. Should try it one day old mate instead of moaning all the time.

great surface

Seeing as you know so much about them hit us with the startling turnover figures on them, must be up by 20-40% surely and well and truly outperforming grass surfaces?

[Huey]

27 minutes ago, Doomed said:

 I'm still waiting for the AWTs to prevent the first abandoned meeting: that was their big selling point by Winston.

That's a great point actually, I can't recall a single meeting being transferred.

[nomates]

2 hours ago, Doomed said:

I'm sure it is a great surface, as it should be for $15m, and no one would argue it's not a nice thing to have. The trouble comes when it is promoted as the answer to all of racing's problems and funded at the expense of other tracks and facilities that many consider just as important. I'm still waiting for the AWTs to prevent the first abandoned meeting: that was their big selling point by Winston.

Don't piss on the man's parade D .

It was everybody's big selling point , well those that were getting something out of them .

[Joe Bloggs]

Did the AWT construction go out to tender? Just asking.

[Freda]

1 minute ago, Joe Bloggs said:

Did the AWT construction go out to tender? Just asking.

Not as I am aware.

[nomates]

1 hour ago, Joe Bloggs said:

Did the AWT construction go out to tender? Just asking.

Yeah to the team they wanted to do it .

[Joe Bloggs]

And no questions asked.......FFS, is that acceptable? 

[Reefton]

I've kept off this string for a while but on the face of it and from what I can see the Riccarton surface is not too bad and the racing (I think) of OK quality.  As everyone knows Pitty is a mate of mine and I was delighted to see him, as a die hard supporter of the AWT, have a great day there the other day.  His Savvy Man coming from three lengths last to win just shows how it is possible to win from anywhere there and that is heartening since there are an awful lot of eggs in one basket with this.  Having only two courses in Canterbury, which is pretty plainly going to happen, means they cannot risk the AWT turning into a white elephant.  They are already getting small field sizes and less that full rosters of races -the real test will be when they run nine times at Riccarton in two months from 28 July.

Not sure what the cost is to renovate that track but lets say $1.5m every five years and that they run 20 meetings on it a year(ie 100 racedays in five years).  That is $15k per day.  I could be totally incorrect in terms of that cost or that period of time before it needs renovating but you can see how this thing MUST be successful to justify the spending that has gone on with it already and into the future.  They(the CJC) ought to be provisioning(that is putting money aside) the maintenance cost already which ties in with Pam's point that turnover does not necessarily equate to profit .  Although knowing NZTR they have probably promised to pay the maintenance cost for them - they seem to pay every other effing thing for those clubs.

The people who love the concept might point at the ability to train in it as well but unless the CJC has hiked track fees through the roof the training aspect is irrelevant.  Incidentally whatever happened to Te Akau for galloping on that grass track at Riccarton that was closed? Naughty boy J Richards!

So in my view I think we have t give it a year or two.  The reports I have  had range from glowing(pretty obvious who that is) to Ok so time(as it so often does) will tell.

 

[Chief Stipe]

44 minutes ago, Reefton said:

 

Not sure what the cost is to renovate that track but lets say $1.5m every five years and that they run 20 meetings on it a year(ie 100 racedays in five years).  That is $15k per day.  I could be totally incorrect in terms of that cost or that period of time before it needs renovating but you can see how this thing MUST be successful to justify the spending that has gone on with it already and into the future.  They(the CJC) ought to be provisioning(that is putting money aside) the maintenance cost already which ties in with Pam's point that turnover does not necessarily equate to profit .  Although knowing NZTR they have probably promised to pay the maintenance cost for them - they seem to pay every other effing thing for those clubs.

 

Do you really think anything has changed?  They've never put aside enough to maintain their turf track and they're certainly not going to clear enough to maintain BOTH the AWT and the Turf.

A white elephant that is going to suck the life out of Sth Island racing.

[Reefton]

2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

 

A white elephant that is going to suck the life out of Sth Island racing.

Potentially that is true.  But to be fair the likes of me are not getting a lot of support attacking NZTR and Co. Not many other Clubs getting onto the front foot with these wankers

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Reefton said:

Potentially that is true.  But to be fair the likes of me are not getting a lot of support attacking NZTR and Co. Not many other Clubs getting onto the front foot with these wankers

What I can't understand is why hasn't a business plan been published?  Then we could all assess the benefits.  Actually the reason they haven't is quite self explanatory.  No accountability.

 

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

What I can't understand is why hasn't a business plan been published?  Then we could all assess the benefits.  Actually the reason they haven't is quite self explanatory.  No accountability.

 

What is in the business plan might be unpalatable.  'We budget to pick up $10m from the sale of the Timaru asset (Washdyke) and $1m from their Omakau sale and $1m from Waikouiati and so on and so on and then we intend to give the lot to Riccarton to piss up against the wall'  For the north just change the name saw applicable. There is no question in my mind the sale of assets that do not rightfully belong to the industry but to the towns and districts that developed and supported them for years is how it is intended to fund the industry in the short to medium term.  What happens when all that dosh is gone? Well we will resign and let someone else sort that.

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

What I can't understand is why hasn't a business plan been published?  Then we could all assess the benefits.  Actually the reason they haven't is quite self explanatory.  No accountability.

 

What is in the business plan might be unpalatable.  'We budget to pick up $10m from the sale of the Timaru asset (Washdyke) and $1m from their Omakau sale and $1m from Waikouiati and so on and so on and then we intend to give the lot to Riccarton to piss up against the wall'  For the north just change the namesmaw applicable. There is no question in my mind the sale of assets that do not rightfully belong to the industry but to the towns and districts that developed and supported them for years is how it is intended to fund the industry in the short to medium term.  What happens when all that dosh is gone? Well we will resign and let someone else sort that.

[Joe Bloggs]

4 hours ago, Reefton said:

I've kept off this string for a while but on the face of it and from what I can see the Riccarton surface is not too bad and the racing (I think) of OK quality.  As everyone knows Pitty is a mate of mine and I was delighted to see him, as a die hard supporter of the AWT, have a great day there the other day.  His Savvy Man coming from three lengths last to win just shows how it is possible to win from anywhere there and that is heartening since there are an awful lot of eggs in one basket with this.  Having only two courses in Canterbury, which is pretty plainly going to happen, means they cannot risk the AWT turning into a white elephant.  They are already getting small field sizes and less that full rosters of races -the real test will be when they run nine times at Riccarton in two months from 28 July.

Not sure what the cost is to renovate that track but lets say $1.5m every five years and that they run 20 meetings on it a year(ie 100 racedays in five years).  That is $15k per day.  I could be totally incorrect in terms of that cost or that period of time before it needs renovating but you can see how this thing MUST be successful to justify the spending that has gone on with it already and into the future.  They(the CJC) ought to be provisioning(that is putting money aside) the maintenance cost already which ties in with Pam's point that turnover does not necessarily equate to profit .  Although knowing NZTR they have probably promised to pay the maintenance cost for them - they seem to pay every other effing thing for those clubs.

The people who love the concept might point at the ability to train in it as well but unless the CJC has hiked track fees through the roof the training aspect is irrelevant.  Incidentally whatever happened to Te Akau for galloping on that grass track at Riccarton that was closed? Naughty boy J Richards!

So in my view I think we have t give it a year or two.  The reports I have  had range from glowing(pretty obvious who that is) to Ok so time(as it so often does) will tell.

 

BUT, no-one answered my questions of many months gone, did anyone from CJC contact Geelong or Toowoomba to ascertain WTF happened to these tracks . It's no secret one fell apart and was not viable to repair, the other [QLD] was a joke, and no one would race on it except for the needy and the greedy, the simple fact it allegedly didn't go out to tender should ring alarm bells, why was that exactly? Someone with a hundred horses will always find 20 that good on it, a behemoth stable near us supports the AWT with horses that couldn't win a race down a well, and whoa and behold, find a few that can handle it and put off the sacking process, but as for it being gods gift to trainers as a training aid? some are easily pleased as thats NOT a consensus here by a country mile.

Might I add, the stakes on our AWT are double NZ, and in MEL many are for $K 35, not the disgusting, insulting offensive K 12 that they are racing for in NZ on those wonderful industry days, you know, those days that the suited wonders on fat cat salaries throw the industry Hoi poloi a bone.....IMO and just saying.....

[Reefton]

2 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said:

BUT, no-one answered my questions of many months gone, did anyone from CJC contact Geelong or Toowoomba to ascertain WTF happened to these tracks . It's no secret one fell apart and was not viable to repair, the other [QLD] was a joke, and no one would race on it except for the needy and the greedy, the simple fact it allegedly didn't go out to tender should ring alarm bells, why was that exactly? Someone with a hundred horses will always find 20 that good on it, a behemoth stable near us supports the AWT with horses that couldn't win a race down a well, and whoa and behold, find a few that can handle it and put off the sacking process, but as for it being gods gift to trainers as a training aid? some are easily pleased as thats NOT a consensus here by a country mile.

Might I add, the stakes on our AWT are double NZ, and in MEL many are for $K 35, not the disgusting, insulting offensive K 12 that they are racing for in NZ on those wonderful industry days, you know, those days that the suited wonders on fat cat salaries throw the industry Hoi poloi a bone.....IMO and just saying.....

I don't suppose the CJC cared  JB.  The had just been gifted a massive asset courtesy of the NZ taxpayer via the provincial growth fund.  That is the most sickening aspect of the whole thing for me - a fund set up  at NZ Firsts insistence to benefit the provinces twisted by Winston Peters to advantage the metropolitan areas and ultimately the result will be to massively disadvantage racing in those rural areas that fund was intended to promote

The old saying - you don't look a gift horse in the mouth.  Those big clubs have had millions and millions and millions of dollars lavished on them over decades and they still can't produce a quality product and nobody wants to go to their tracks (save for two or three days a year).  It is bullshit

[Joe Bloggs]

Thanks Reefton, I forgot CJC didn't have to cough for the track, lets see how history remembers it,  it's easy to blame Gen X and Millennials for the woes of today, but by gee we Boomers have caused some Kuk have we not. Winston is a leading stupid old fart, and is not Robinson Crusoe. 

However, so many Boomers are responsible for so many poor, questionable decisions, many at Club level, some at HQ, ah well, there's always Golf, and the Spring horses will be back in shortly. #glasshalffull

[Freda]

1 hour ago, Joe Bloggs said:

Thanks Reefton, I forgot CJC didn't have to cough for the track, lets see how history remembers it,  it's easy to blame Gen X and Millennials for the woes of today, but by gee we Boomers have caused some Kuk have we not. Winston is a leading stupid old fart, and is not Robinson Crusoe. 

However, so many Boomers are responsible for so many poor, questionable decisions, many at Club level, some at HQ, ah well, there's always Golf, and the Spring horses will be back in shortly. #glasshalffull

Just watch Ascot and dream, JB.  Yes, good old blighty has provincial tracks, poor stakes, and battling trainers too, and the odd fk-up as well, like the blindfold left on....but when they present the best, it is just - well, the best.

[curious]

5 minutes ago, Freda said:

Just watch Ascot and dream, JB.  Yes, good old blighty has provincial tracks, poor stakes, and battling trainers too, and the odd fk-up as well, like the blindfold left on....but when they present the best, it is just - well, the best.

It's hard to think of a NZ card that I would get up for 3 hours in the middle of the night all week to watch and it is definitely little to do with the stakes which are an obsession here.