Te Rapa/ Waverley

[Newmarket]

Well, 

These nz dodgy wet tracks are bad enough,  but some of these riders are terrible. 

Some of these jockeys take off 600m from home, cant they judge a race. Not my money talking, as i no longer bet on this shit. 

Yahoo, aus about to start

[Guest CrossCodes]

How about the feature race at Waverley? The whole field of riders trying to get to the outside strip and almost the entire field was unlucky with them all running out of room. It was a farce of a race.

[Newmarket]

How can you be confident betting on this crap? 2/3rds of the field cant win half way thru the race? 

[barryb]

I have had no difficulty today, Jochen Rindt, Ram Sam Sam, now Mutechi.

It requires a different way of thinking.

[barryb]

I Suggest makes it a great day.

Black Lace home and I will be too boozed to be bothered with Rugby.

 

[MaltedMilkshake]

6 hours ago, Newmarket said:

Well, 

These nz dodgy wet tracks are bad enough,  but some of these riders are terrible. 

Some of these jockeys take off 600m from home, cant they judge a race. Not my money talking, as i no longer bet on this shit. 

Yahoo, aus about to start

So why do you think Kiwi horses improve lengths over in Oz? Trainers spend owners money getting the horses ready and have to suffer the anguish of the it being hammered by the person steering (or in the majority of cases, not steering)...

[MaltedMilkshake]

I’ll just add to my previous post.  How can you expect young riders to improve when there is a lack of racing dates. Take the SI...there is no race meeting until next Friday - that’s almost 2 weeks. Is it any wonder the current standard of jockey is questionable? 

 

[barryb]

They just had 3 meetings in 7 days at a carnival. Wouldn’t be any noms mate, that’s why there is no racing.

[Newmarket]

2 hours ago, MaltedMilkshake said:

I’ll just add to my previous post.  How can you expect young riders to improve when there is a lack of racing dates. Take the SI...there is no race meeting until next Friday - that’s almost 2 weeks. Is it any wonder the current standard of jockey is questionable? 

 

I cant see 2 weeks between meetings an issue. Sadly, the decline in jockey numbers, means a decline in jockey class, less options to choose. Christ, going back several years, we had some very experienced jocks, not now thou

[Freda]

16 hours ago, CrossCodes said:

How about the feature race at Waverley? The whole field of riders trying to get to the outside strip and almost the entire field was unlucky with them all running out of room. It was a farce of a race.

Ah,  our 'management' fixed that problem at Riccarton a few seasons ago.....they watered the outside to make it as unattractive as the sodden inner.

[Freda]

17 hours ago, Newmarket said:

Well, 

These nz dodgy wet tracks are bad enough,  but some of these riders are terrible. 

Some of these jockeys take off 600m from home, cant they judge a race. Not my money talking, as i no longer bet on this shit. 

Yahoo, aus about to start

There's nothing wrong with making a move 600 out - or more than that.  If the tempo of the race is going to result in a sprint home,  then putting the pace on at a time to suit your own mount is a perfectly reasonable tactic.

The problem is the inability to judge pace....and that problem - IMO - is endemic,  as is the inability to 'read' a race among officials.

My apprentices were expected to work to the clock.  If I wished an even work at 14 to the furlong,  then that's what I expected to happen.

They became good at it,  and were constantly among the leading riders around.

They hated being made to do it,  though..!  one lad,  who moved to Sydney upon the ending of his apprenticeship,  was riding work for Gai Waterhouse.  The lass still working for me rang him to catch up,  and in the conversation complained bitterly about the 'bitch'  [ me ]  requiring her to work to time. ' I thought it was crap,  too,'  said the lad,  'but now I realise just how important it is.  Listen to her.'

I cut out a newspaper article from years ago where David Walsh had been charged with 'not giving his mount every chance..'   Stipe at the time was Noel McCutcheon, who seemed to have a god-like status among the fraternity.

Walsh,  although not always everyone's favourite,  has long been recognised as one of the finest judges of pace produced in NZ racing.

David was trying to explain that the horse he rode,  upon which he won the previous start,  was not able to take a similar handy possie as the leader was an apprentice girl   ' who was attempting to go through the sound barrier' .   The pace was suicidal, he pointed out,  and his horse would have been among the first beaten.  He eventually ran on to finish fourth on this particular occasion.    

The pace of the race,  said McCutcheon,  is irrelevant.....FFS,  the pace of the race is everything.

 

 

 

 

[Chief Stipe]

I thought a telling interview was with Rogie after his 3 year old filly won - he said the jockey told him before the race that he INTENDED to sit wide on the outer throughout the race to avoid the sand and dirt being thrown back in his and the horse's faces.  Rogie said he didn't like the plan but the jockey stuck to his intention and the filly won.  Rogie was philosophical about the jockey's tactics after the race but was close to being scathing about the state of track.  "What a way to have to ride a nice young horse because of the state of the track."

[Newmarket]

I was amazed how many jockeys at te rapa yesterday made their moves far too early, way before the turn, many ending up wide, then weakening half way down straight. 

Danielle Johnson had purfect run in first race, In the one one, 2 L from leader. But she chose to go forward 600m out, pushed 3 wide around turn, faded 100m to finish 2nd??

[wally]

1 minute ago, Newmarket said:

I was amazed how many jockeys at te rapa yesterday made their moves far too early, way before the turn, many ending up wide, then weakening half way down straight. 

Danielle Johnson had purfect run in first race, In the one one, 2 L from leader. But she chose to go forward 600m out, pushed 3 wide around turn, faded 100m to finish 2nd??

she was riding under insructions from tommy

[Turny]

9 hours ago, Newmarket said:

I cant see 2 weeks between meetings an issue. Sadly, the decline in jockey numbers, means a decline in jockey class, less options to choose. Christ, going back several years, we had some very experienced jocks, not now thou

When Mot get their AWT you will  have a better option 

[hesi]

Some strange things go on, on our tracks

Divine Duke winning by 15 lengths, how does that happen, he is not 15 lengths better than the field he beat

[FeelTheFear]

If you can understand the pace of a race, both before and after a race, the world is your oyster.

[Rowley Mile]

13 minutes ago, Turny said:

When Mot get their AWT you will  have a better option 

Maybe he got to one of those troughs?....you know, the ones no one knew about, only the farmer that wouldn't be questioned.

[Rowley Mile]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

There's nothing wrong with making a move 600 out - or more than that.  If the tempo of the race is going to result in a sprint home,  then putting the pace on at a time to suit your own mount is a perfectly reasonable tactic.

The problem is the inability to judge pace....and that problem - IMO - is endemic,  as is the inability to 'read' a race among officials.

My apprentices were expected to work to the clock.  If I wished an even work at 14 to the furlong,  then that's what I expected to happen.

They became good at it,  and were constantly among the leading riders around.

They hated being made to do it,  though..!  one lad,  who moved to Sydney upon the ending of his apprenticeship,  was riding work for Gai Waterhouse.  The lass still working for me rang him to catch up,  and in the conversation complained bitterly about the 'bitch'  [ me ]  requiring her to work to time. ' I thought it was crap,  too,'  said the lad,  'but now I realise just how important it is.  Listen to her.'

I cut out a newspaper article from years ago where David Walsh had been charged with 'not giving his mount every chance..'   Stipe at the time was Noel McCutcheon, who seemed to have a god-like status among the fraternity.

Walsh,  although not always everyone's favourite,  has long been recognised as one of the finest judges of pace produced in NZ racing.

David was trying to explain that the horse he rode,  upon which he won the previous start,  was not able to take a similar handy possie as the leader was an apprentice girl   ' who was attempting to go through the sound barrier' .   The pace was suicidal, he pointed out,  and his horse would have been among the first beaten.  He eventually ran on to finish fourth on this particular occasion.    

The pace of the race,  said McCutcheon,  is irrelevant.....FFS,  the pace of the race is everything.

 

 

 

 

If ever a post summed up an argument this is it!.....Tempo is everything, it's how professional punters over here make a living, a speed map that means something. Most jocks over here in Oz can ride to even time, [15] here in Oz, always has been, although now the jock trainers are a lot scarcer than they used to be as the old blokes/sheila's retire/drop off. I know when I had a go at training in NZ after 5 years at Flemington and 12 years at Rosehill [BC] before Chris........I struggled to get my work riders to understand a working gallop and evens.....they had no idea, I would grit my teeth and bear it.....no other option, but it proves that unless the pilot understands pace you are likely to get a plane crash, or at least a bumpy ride...if you get my drift.

[MaltedMilkshake]

48 minutes ago, hesi said:

Some strange things go on, on our tracks

Divine Duke winning by 15 lengths, how does that happen, he is not 15 lengths better than the field he beat

To watch this race unfold, it was totally unreal.  Wow, seems to have found a new lease of life since going over the sticks in a trial in July...ummm ???

[Huey]

Both Wanganui and Waverley appear to not need their inside rail for racing. 

[Kopia]

9 hours ago, Newmarket said:

I was amazed how many jockeys at te rapa yesterday made their moves far too early, way before the turn, many ending up wide, then weakening half way down straight. 

Danielle Johnson had purfect run in first race, In the one one, 2 L from leader. But she chose to go forward 600m out, pushed 3 wide around turn, faded 100m to finish 2nd??

The mare that won the Foxbridge Plate didn't weaken 1/2 way up the straight. She was too scared to. The absolute thrashing she got was disgraceful. Maybe not against the present rules. But it should be. The stipes on duty at Te Rapa should hang their heads in shame. That was terrible to watch, and if you needed any more ammunition to ban whips completely, that race was it. Have we come to the lowest point in racing in this country that a horse has to be thrashed mercilessly to win?

[Kopia]

I meant to add...for one of the first times in history, I agree with Thommmass.....the rules should be amended to allow for a protest against a horse when it wins after a thrashing like this.

[hesi]

3 hours ago, Kopia said:

The mare that won the Foxbridge Plate didn't weaken 1/2 way up the straight. She was too scared to. The absolute thrashing she got was disgraceful. Maybe not against the present rules. But it should be. The stipes on duty at Te Rapa should hang their heads in shame. That was terrible to watch, and if you needed any more ammunition to ban whips completely, that race was it. Have we come to the lowest point in racing in this country that a horse has to be thrashed mercilessly to win?

Here is the NZTR rule

NZTR DIRECTIVE Acceptable Use of the Whip Effective 1 August 2017 New Zealand Thoroughbred Racing have considered and issued the following guidelines with respect to acceptable use of the whip.

Rule 638(3) A Rider shall not: [...]

(b) strike a horse with a whip in a manner or to an extent which is:

(i) unnecessary

(ii) or excessive

(iii) or improper

Without affecting the generality of Rule 638(3)(b), a rider may be penalised if their whip use is outside of the following guidelines: Inside the final 600 metres of a race, official trial or jump-out a horse may be struck with the drawn whip up to five times after which the rider must cease their use of the whip for a minimum of five strides before striking the horse again with the drawn whip, with this restriction to apply prior to the final 100 metres. The whip may then be used at the rider’s discretion until the winning post is reached. Prior to the final 600 metres of a race, official trial or jump-out the use of the drawn whip is acceptable if used in moderation and not continually.

Notwithstanding the above, it will also be deemed to be unacceptable where a rider uses the drawn whip:

• when a horse is out of contention

• when a horse is showing no response

[hesi]

If you look at the video, the jockey hit Melody Belle 13 times in the last 100m