Save The West Coast Racing!

[Shad]

3 minutes ago, Newmarket said:

Wow, 

Mind you i did drink a bit in the 80s, ? only ever remember harness at westport

Shame the don't  have gallops there, remember a grey horse by light spirits win its first race on that track, was one of the best winners I've seen at that venue, modena, went on to win quite a few races, and raced in top company. Roydon berguson trained I think, also last cup winner by light spirits elad nova. Sorry to go off the topic, but tripping down memory lane, again.

[Rangatira]

8 minutes ago, Shad said:

Shame the don't  have gallops there, remember a grey horse by light spirits win its first race on that track, was one of the best winners I've seen at that venue, modena, went on to win quite a few races, and raced in top company. Roydon berguson trained I think, also last cup winner by light spirits elad nova. Sorry to go off the topic, but tripping down memory lane, again.

jim melton trained modena also by light spirits

Edited August 31, 2018 by Rangatira

[Shad]

24 minutes ago, Rangatira said:

jim melton trained modena also by light spirits

Yep yr right, memory not as good these days

[Freda]

I would think that mindset would be held by most clubs on tracks earmarked for closure.

If NZTR thinks it can blackmail it's way into asset ownership I think it might face a fight....especially considering its track record to date is woeful. 

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Newmarket said:

Wow, 

Mind you i did drink a bit in the 80s, ? only ever remember harness at westport

Westport galloping finished around the mid 80's.  it was(and is) a very strong harness racing area less so the thoroughbreds.  just died through lack of interest I understand.  At one stage there was Blenheim, nelson and Wesport all in a nice little autumn circuit.

Overall though guys I am pissed off with drunken Winston but the issue is a lot bigger than the Coast.  Form south island racing's perspective Timaru, Oamaru Gore all contribute a lot at sometime difficult times of the year(especially Oamaru  - if you horse doesn't like the all weather and you are looking for a half decent winter track you are going to miss that venue) 

The Coast issue is a sideshow - as I said they are all too small and also susceptible to bog.  I fully expected the whole lot to be closed.  The inconsistency and the fact that they are talking spending millions of industry money on stabling and grandstands etc is just a bloody joke  but Winston likes getting on the piss at Kumara and will be a hero with the drunks who think Kumara is the be all and end all of the Coast racing.

Of course I am not sure how they will handle it if there is another cancellation this season.  Winston might have to build a roof over the entire course.

[Reefton]

We at Reefton of course will have the harness guys going strong so our asset is protected for now from Winston's greedy fingers.  I reckon Curious is right about changing constitutions and they cannot force you to wind up if you morph from a racing Club into some other form of incorporated Club owning the land.  We have to think about where we would like it to go and who we would like to control it down the track but I will be fighting tooth an nail to stood that prick and his cronies getting the proceeds.  Eff em!

[Rangatira]

11 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Westport galloping finished around the mid 80's. 

mid 90's

[curious]

49 minutes ago, Reefton said:

We at Reefton of course will have the harness guys going strong so our asset is protected for now from Winston's greedy fingers.  I reckon Curious is right about changing constitutions and they cannot force you to wind up if you morph from a racing Club into some other form of incorporated Club owning the land. 

If I am not right Reefton, NZTR would be ignoring their own advice. This is from a Bell Gully report addressed to one of your favourite people, Mr. Campbell Moncur, dated April 2009.

Campbell Moncur

 

 

New Zealand Thoroughbred Racing Incorporated

campbell.moncur@nzracing.co.nz

Mike Colson / Mark Freeman / Kate Radka

ATTER  N O.   01-336-1988

 

 

DATE          24 April 2009

.....

Withdrawal from registration

 

 

Finally, there is a risk that a disgruntled racing club could refuse to exercise its right to conduct race meetings at another racing club’s racecourse as required under a betting licence, and in the face of being required to do so, cancel its registration as a racing club with NZTR.

 

 

Although there is no explicit right for a racing club to withdraw or cancel its registration as a racing club with NZTR we consider it likely that there is an implicit right to do so on reasonable notice. The effect of such cancellation of registration would be that the racing club would no longer be bound by NZTR’s constitution nor the Racing Act, and arguably could act in any manner it wished, provided it continued to be consistent with its own constitution. It would, however, have no right to run race meetings at any racecourse, nor to receive any funding from NZTR or NZRB.

Edited August 31, 2018 by curious

[curious]

I'm sorry folk, but this is just another example of the sorry state of the due diligence informing the research upon which this report was supposed to be based.

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, curious said:

If I am not right Reefton, NZTR would be ignoring their own advice. This is from a Bell Gully report addressed to one of your favourite people, Mr. Campbell Moncur, dated April 2009.

Campbell Moncur

 

 

New Zealand Thoroughbred Racing Incorporated

campbell.moncur@nzracing.co.nz

Mike Colson / Mark Freeman / Kate Radka

ATTER  N O.   01-336-1988

 

 

DATE          24 April 2009

.....

Withdrawal from registration

 

 

Finally, there is a risk that a disgruntled racing club could refuse to exercise its right to conduct race meetings at another racing club’s racecourse as required under a betting licence, and in the face of being required to do so, cancel its registration as a racing club with NZTR.

 

 

Although there is no explicit right for a racing club to withdraw or cancel its registration as a racing club with NZTR we consider it likely that there is an implicit right to do so on reasonable notice. The effect of such cancellation of registration would be that the racing club would no longer be bound by NZTR’s constitution nor the Racing Act, and arguably could act in any manner it wished, provided it continued to be consistent with its own constitution. It would, however, have no right to run race meetings at any racecourse, nor to receive any funding from NZTR or NZRB.

Thanks Curious.  I couldn't see under the incorporated Societies Act how they could make a Club which elected to or was forced to abandon it's racing activity to wind up.  

It is pretty obvious there was a lot of 'assistance' provided to Mr Messara in producing this report.  How he knows so much about individual courses and their facilities is beyond me.  Clearly there was influence from among Peters' cronies and insofar as I know they come from predominantly one sector of the industry - I just don't see how they believe they will benefit from some of the recommendations.

Edited August 31, 2018 by Reefton

[hesi]

Messara contends that the Racing Act 2003, states that racing clubs do not own their assets, the national body does, and recommends the Act be amended to remove any ambiguity that exists.

A major part of the plan appears to hinge on this, as most of the 190 mil for upgrades at the remaining 28 tracks comes from the sale of freehold land, mainly Avondale I might add

[Freda]

7 hours ago, Reefton said:

Westport galloping finished around the mid 80's.  it was(and is) a very strong harness racing area less so the thoroughbreds.  just died through lack of interest I understand.  At one stage there was Blenheim, nelson and Wesport all in a nice little autumn circuit.

Overall though guys I am pissed off with drunken Winston but the issue is a lot bigger than the Coast.  Form south island racing's perspective Timaru, Oamaru Gore all contribute a lot at sometime difficult times of the year(especially Oamaru  - if you horse doesn't like the all weather and you are looking for a half decent winter track you are going to miss that venue) 

The Coast issue is a sideshow - as I said they are all too small and also susceptible to bog.  I fully expected the whole lot to be closed.  The inconsistency and the fact that they are talking spending millions of industry money on stabling and grandstands etc is just a bloody joke  but Winston likes getting on the piss at Kumara and will be a hero with the drunks who think Kumara is the be all and end all of the Coast racing.

Of course I am not sure how they will handle it if there is another cancellation this season.  Winston might have to build a roof over the entire course.

Yes, exactly.

To retain Waikouaiti and not Oamaru beggars belief..its the best winter track in the south island with excellent facilities...and to claim Timaru has 'no infrastructure' , same.....as well as being a base for a good number of galloping trainers...who advised this shit?

I've no problem with track rationalisation, but it has to have benefit for all.

[Freda]

Reefton and Curious,  you'll have a better take on the legal stance of this than me...is there any reason why clubs with freehold assets,  couldn't place those assets in a community trust -type arrangement, and lease the property back to conduct racing ?  until such time as they are forced not to?

....and ,  at least as far as the south is concerned,  all these track closures - which are supposed to fund infrastructure improvements- won't be able to happen until the allweather at Riccarton is built.

That will hang upon the success [ or otherwise ]  of the first venture at Cambridge for starters,  and given that the RDF is unlikely to be usable in Christchurch city,  funding has to be questionable for the proposed allweather here.

We have seen on another thread that the capital realised from the sale of the Racecourse Reserve land is nowhere near what may have been thought.

[curious]

5 hours ago, hesi said:

Messara contends that the Racing Act 2003, states that racing clubs do not own their assets, the national body does, and recommends the Act be amended to remove any ambiguity that exists.

A major part of the plan appears to hinge on this, as most of the 190 mil for upgrades at the remaining 28 tracks comes from the sale of freehold land, mainly Avondale I might add

He is confused Hesi. I don't know what legal consultation occurred on this. It appears none. Where were the DIA lawyers? That legislation only applies to dissolution of clubs. On the one hand, he says what you say. On the other, he says "It is not proposed that any Clubs cease to exist but that they race at a different nearby venue if their racecourse is to be closed." They can't not cease to exist and at the same time have the dissolution rules applied.

And as the above advice from Bell Gully points out, if their hand is forced, they can simply de-register and relinquish their dates and thereby no-longer be subject to the provisions of the Act or the requirements of the code body. As Reefton have already indicated they will do, and I suspect Avondale will likely do the same.

So, I think there will be no 190m asset grab to fund the proposed capital developments unless clubs are persuaded to do that voluntarily where their constitutions allow it. Like much of the rest of the report this is not well thought through but a rehash of an old idea that can't be implemented.

 

 

27 Dissolution of club

(1)

On the dissolution of a racing club, the assets of the club remaining after all legal claims on the club have been satisfied must be disposed of for racing, public, charitable, or other purposes in the manner that the club, with the approval of the racing code with which it is registered, determines.

(2)

The purposes for which the assets must be disposed of must be published by the racing code by notice in the Gazette.

(3)

If there is a dispute over the disposition of assets involving a racing club that is an incorporated society or a charitable trust, the dispute must be determined in accordance with section 27 of the Incorporated Societies Act 1908 or section 27 of the Charitable Trusts Act 1957, as the case may be.

(4)

For the purposes of subsection (3), a racing club that is neither an incorporated society nor a charitable trust must be treated as if it were an incorporated society.

(5)

If 2 or more racing clubs propose to combine to form 1 club, the assets of any club that proposes to dissolve as a result of that combination may, with the approval of the racing code with which it is registered, be transferred (whether before or after dissolution) to the club with which it proposes to combine.

[Reefton]

2 minutes ago, curious said:

He is confused Hesi. I don't know what legal consultation occurred on this. It appears none. Where were the DIA lawyers? That legislation only applies to dissolution of clubs. On the one hand, he says what you say. On the other, he says "It is not proposed that any Clubs cease to exist but that they race at a different nearby venue if their racecourse is to be closed." They can't not cease to exist and at the same time have the dissolution rules applied.

And as the above advice from Bell Gully points out, if their hand is forced, they can simply de-register and relinquish their dates and thereby no-longer be subject to the provisions of the Act or the requirements of the code body. As Reefton have already indicated they will do, and I suspect Avondale will likely do the same.

So, I think there will be no 190m asset grab to fund the proposed capital developments unless clubs are persuaded to do that voluntarily where their constitutions allow it. Like much of the rest of the report this is not well thought through but a rehash of an old idea that can't be implemented.

 

 

27 Dissolution of club

(1)

On the dissolution of a racing club, the assets of the club remaining after all legal claims on the club have been satisfied must be disposed of for racing, public, charitable, or other purposes in the manner that the club, with the approval of the racing code with which it is registered, determines.

(2)

The purposes for which the assets must be disposed of must be published by the racing code by notice in the Gazette.

(3)

If there is a dispute over the disposition of assets involving a racing club that is an incorporated society or a charitable trust, the dispute must be determined in accordance with section 27 of the Incorporated Societies Act 1908 or section 27 of the Charitable Trusts Act 1957, as the case may be.

(4)

For the purposes of subsection (3), a racing club that is neither an incorporated society nor a charitable trust must be treated as if it were an incorporated society.

(5)

If 2 or more racing clubs propose to combine to form 1 club, the assets of any club that proposes to dissolve as a result of that combination may, with the approval of the racing code with which it is registered, be transferred (whether before or after dissolution) to the club with which it proposes to combine.

Thanks Curious for that.  Your research and clear expertise is wonderful to be able to access. Yesterday was a bit of a blur but I will be on to some emergency action over the weekend.  The 'close' clubs need to unite and deal with Winston. For a start engage some legal representation.

41 minutes ago, Freda said:

Reefton and Curious,  you'll have a better take on the legal stance of this than me...is there any reason why clubs with freehold assets,  couldn't place those assets in a community trust -type arrangement, and lease the property back to conduct racing ?  until such time as they are forced not to?

....and ,  at least as far as the south is concerned,  all these track closures - which are supposed to fund infrastructure improvements- won't be able to happen until the allweather at Riccarton is built.

That will hang upon the success [ or otherwise ]  of the first venture at Cambridge for starters,  and given that the RDF is unlikely to be usable in Christchurch city,  funding has to be questionable for the proposed allweather here.

We have seen on another thread that the capital realised from the sale of the Racecourse Reserve land is nowhere near what may have been thought.

I tend to have a fatalistic approach where if I do not believe I can achieve change Pam I don't bother reading up on things because it only makes me churn on it for no benefit.  I am pretty worried about this and every time I read a snippet like this mornings Press saying that the ownership of freehold courses will be transferred by legislation to NZRB or the codes it gets me going. It then clarifies the logic behind all the closures being the tracks that can easily be cashed up (Kumara being a lease piece of land is effectively worthless).  So Messara uses the wealth of NZ Racing to build specialised buildings and do specialised work on land the industry does not own that in a lot of cases will be worthless to anything but the industry from the day it starts. Plus sell off the major industry asset(whatever anyone says the industry owns the TAB if only de facto) to offshore interests.  Convert what is still a very wealthy industry (assets wise) into a poverty striken lame duck in one fell swoop.   And thereby removing any ability to do any future development that will actually be worthwhile because you have sold the family silver and have nothing of value to borrow against.  I am starting to think NSW and Aussie racing has thrived despite Messara not because of him. And despite what he says the closure decision is not based on the standard of the track or facilities but the ability to produce large amounts of cash from it.  This is bullshit and it is incomprehensible that what is clearly a clever and capable man has produced it without outside influence. 

But do I have the heart for a fight?  I did it 25 years ago with Chittick but am running out of energy and still have to pay the mortgage (fortunately a lot lower than it was then).  Lying in bed churning on things doesn't feed my kids(I didn't have them 25 years ago!)

[curious]

2 hours ago, Freda said:

Yes, exactly.

To retain Waikouaiti and not Oamaru beggars belief..its the best winter track in the south island with excellent facilities...and to claim Timaru has 'no infrastructure' , same.....as well as being a base for a good number of galloping trainers...who advised this shit?

I've no problem with track rationalisation, but it has to have benefit for all.

It would be interesting to know what informed the recommendations on track closures. I'm not opposed to that btw. However, much of it is not logical it seems and as a process, on its own, does nothing to provide sustainability. I agree on those 3 Freda thought it's a while since I've been at any of them. But round the country, I don't see a lot of sense in the recommendations. Kumara on the coast? sell Avondale, not Ellerslie? Why not sell all 3 Auckland tracks and all but one of the Waikato tracks and build one new Strathayr in the Waikato? In the CD why not sell Awapuni and develop a new facility either at Foxton or at a completely new venue, again a Strathayr?

Edited August 31, 2018 by curious

[Turny]

It is all population based and the state of the assets.

What is so wrong tho is the theft of the assets - that must be dealt with and the funds put to use in the local community - incomprehensible for the funds to be stolen and used elsewhere - do not let it happen 

[Reefton]

8 minutes ago, Turny said:

It is all population based and the state of the assets.

What is so wrong tho is the theft of the assets - that must be dealt with and the funds put to use in the local community - incomprehensible for the funds to be stolen and used elsewhere - do not let it happen 

Hardly population based here.  Kumara has 300 people.  Winston based here - he likes getting on the piss at Kumara. There ain't no fool like an old fool! 

[Turny]

I think they looked wider than Reefton township - the same theory applies 

[hesi]

So track reduction to 28, is not to save money, because they never had this money(104 mil) to spend on upgrading in the first place.  It is about generating 190 mil to upgrade the remaining 28 tracks.  Most of this coming from Avondale.

Okay, if that happens(??), that generates the cash needed to bring facilities into the modern world.

That in itself is required, but won't on it's own generate sustainability and the doubling of stakemoney to 100 mil.

So I presume the key event that must happen in tandem is the outsourcing of the TAB, which along with devolving racing responsibilities to the 3 codes, negates the need for NZRB(Wagering NZ), in anything more than avery slimmed down version.

So the deal negotiated with the outsourcing is also key, as it generates the ongoing sustainable funding ie stakes at 100 mil

Is this correct?

[Reefton]

50 minutes ago, Turny said:

I think they looked wider than Reefton township - the same theory applies 

How did they look wider? If they took a wide view of Kumara you have two towns within 15 minutes one of which has a racecourse with perfectly adequate facilities and which has already had millions of industry money spent on it.  It's madness but Winston likes getting on the piss there and the asset is worthless to the industry. Kumara looks like the only decision Winston made on his own.

[Newmarket]

Good work Curious, i like the fighting Erin Brockovich types, lets all get ready to rumble!

[Reefton]

The Reefton Jockey Club would like to announce the name of the last race next January 9th in advance. The 'thanks for nothing John and Winston Handicap'

And for you chappies who enjoy a bit of Molloy fizz unleashed on a hapless individual be sure to be there for the final President's speech - I am intending to be a touch inflammatory on the topic of a certain politician.

[Kakama]

1 hour ago, Reefton said:

How did they look wider? If they took a wide view of Kumara you have two towns within 15 minutes one of which has a racecourse with perfectly adequate facilities and which has already had millions of industry money spent on it.  It's madness but Winston likes getting on the piss there and the asset is worthless to the industry. Kumara looks like the only decision Winston made on his own.

I think you are spot on....when I heard kumara staying open...I nearly fell off my chair.

Sadly...If this all goes ahead....I don't see racing at all on the coast.

[mumbles]

6 minutes ago, Reefton said:

The Reefton Jockey Club would like to announce the name of the last race next January 9th in advance. The 'thanks for nothing John and Winston Handicap'

And for you chappies who enjoy a bit of Molloy fizz unleashed on a hapless individual be sure to be there for the final President's speech - I am intending to be a touch inflammatory on the topic of a certain politician.

Prebble saved rail

Peters saved racing

Simple fact, the only thing they saved was their own bacon.