hesi Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 7 hours ago, Brando said: I disagree re damages because being a Licensed person is not a right but a privelge granted by HRNZ. 324 (1) The Board may, in its discretion, at any time cancel, withdraw, suspend, or impose, amend or delete any conditions or restrictions upon any licence for such period during the currency thereof as it thinks fit, giving seven days notice of its intention to do so. As this is the first case of it's kind in New Zealand, since Match Fixing was legislated to be a Criminal Act in 2014, the RIU needs to take a firm stance on this, and not let particpants and their smarty pants lawyers, use loop holes or find ways to make a mockery of an Industry where INTEGRITY is so paramount. If I recall correctly, this is the clause that went into the Thoroughbred rules after the Lisa Cropp case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poisoned Dwarf Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 23 hours ago, LongOwner said: I cannot believe what I read on this site - no idea about innocence until proven and justice. You comment is an insult to every New Zealander who understands our judicial system and the democracy we live in . So a fiddler school teacher, policeman , priest is stood down on full pay - “ gardening leave “ - but you say these people rot . Your comment is arsenic ! ARSENIC from the same family as THOMASS ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poisoned Dwarf Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 On 12/09/2018 at 4:57 PM, the galah said: Why not,seems pretty straight forward. The simple solution is to have all those involved in race fixing stood down from attending race meetings,but allow them to continue to compete and attend at trials and workouts where there is no betting. That is until the conclusion of these cases. As far as the drug charges. They should be allowed to continue as above if they provide drug free samples,However charges must be filed by the RIU and dealt with expediently. Their comebacks may thus be short lived but at least that part of it can be dealt with and that cloud will not have to hover over anyone for too long. they can stay at home, drive on their own track, muck out, feeds, waters....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongOwner Posted September 13, 2018 Author Share Posted September 13, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, the galah said: All those examples you have given are stood down to protect the integrity and reputation of their businesses and organisation. So I"m guessing, using your argument, you accept they should be stood down. I guess you are referring to drivers. So who is it you expect to fully fund the wages of some of the top 10 earners in harness racing while they await the outcome of their race fixing and drug charges?. You righteous people who do not believe in our justice system , HRNZ and more particularly the RIU who did not carry out its role in the first place and sold there professionalism down the river should be paying the drivers. Edited September 13, 2018 by LongOwner 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 I have no problem with any of them training horses and taking to the track. It is their living, lets think of their families etc, hardly going to do anything with so many eyes on them are they, this court case could go on for many months. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongOwner Posted September 13, 2018 Author Share Posted September 13, 2018 Read Theinformant or AllStars and Mark Purdon is in full agreement with those who understand New Zealand law and the media and HRNZ - formal press release . Congratulations Mark Purdon ! Now everyone stop this witch hunt and let the judicial system run its course . Before you reply read Marks press release and take note . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 15 minutes ago, Newmarket said: I have no problem with any of them training horses and taking to the track. It is their living, lets think of their families etc, hardly going to do anything with so many eyes on them are they, this court case could go on for many months. The way the justice system works could be years☹️ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongOwner Posted September 13, 2018 Author Share Posted September 13, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Nowornever said: The way the justice system works could be years☹️ So - that is the system and why should this case & defendants be treated any different than others ? Edited September 13, 2018 by LongOwner 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 9 minutes ago, LongOwner said: Read Theinformant or AllStars and Mark Purdon is in full agreement with those who understand New Zealand law and the media and HRNZ - formal press release . Congratulations Mark Purdon ! Now everyone stop this witch hunt and let the judicial system run its course . Before you reply read Marks press release and take note . I have the utmost respect for Mark Purdon as a trainer, driver, yearling selector, or indeed anything to do with horsemanship. But, let's be honest, he's not exactly a disinterested party here, is he? Indeed, his argument appears to be a variant of the "two wrongs make a right" fallacy — because the media doesn't always do its job in identifying shortcomings of other industries, it shouldn't report bad news about harness either. I hardly think that's likely to convince any independent observer. Sorry, but while Mark Purdon is perfectly entitled to air his views, and in fact I commend him for doing so (it would be so much easier in his position just to keep quiet), let's not pretend he's offering up the definitive opinion on the matter. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jess Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 36 minutes ago, LongOwner said: Read Theinformant or AllStars and Mark Purdon is in full agreement with those who understand New Zealand law and the media and HRNZ - formal press release . Congratulations Mark Purdon ! Now everyone stop this witch hunt and let the judicial system run its course . Before you reply read Marks press release and take note . Read Mark Purdon's statement. This is the part that I was slightly bemused by: I have been in harness racing a long time and consider it clean. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, jess said: Read Mark Purdon's statement. This is the part that I was slightly bemused by: I have been in harness racing a long time and consider it clean. why make a statement??? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brando Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 2 hours ago, LongOwner said: You righteous people who do not believe in our justice system , HRNZ and more particularly the RIU who did not carry out its role in the first place and sold there professionalism down the river should be paying the drivers. Can you please elaborate on why you think HRNZ or the RIU did not carry out their roles? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brando Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, LongOwner said: Read Theinformant or AllStars and Mark Purdon is in full agreement with those who understand New Zealand law and the media and HRNZ - formal press release . Congratulations Mark Purdon ! Now everyone stop this witch hunt and let the judicial system run its course . Before you reply read Marks press release and take note . I have read Mark Purodn's statement. I admire his and LongOwner' passion for the accused but their criticism of the Media and Police are based on their personal opinion. So I will strongly disagree with them blaming the Media or the Police; and playing the "Victim card" for the sport of Harness. Sports persons, actors, politions and any high profile person will draw media attention because it's "Newsworthy". Mark is a very busy man and may not have time to actually follow the media, therefore he shouldn't make uninformed comments on such things as "Being Published before Any Court Appearances". Ben Stokes, OJ Simpson, Indian cricketers(too numerous to name), Cliff Richard, Britney Spears, Hanse Cronje, Chris Cairns, Damien Oliver, John Banks, Daniel Carter and the list goes on, and on and ON. History is full of intances where media have published Names and Charges before Court Appearances; based on witness accounts and insider sources. Harness isn't being singled out cause it's "special" There is NO law against the media Publishing anythng prior to a Court Appearance. The media just have to make sure what is reported is accurate or they face libel. If Name suppression is granted later, then the Media will report accordingly to the court order. On one hand Purdon argues for the Court process to take its due course yet on the other hand he is critical of Harness leaders because they haven't come out in support of the accused, reasoning that they "are some of the most successful people in Harness racing". History is also full of highly successful people committing offences: Damian Oliver, James McDonald, Jose Mourinho, Lionel Messi, Martha Stuart etc etc. I applaud HRNZ for the stance they have taken. No person is bigger than the sport no matter how successful they are. HRNZ governs the Sport and its Integrity - and these are serious charges against the Integrity of the Sport. Edited September 13, 2018 by Brando 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hesi Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 (edited) Catch 22 isn't it These people that have been charged are innocent till proven guilty They will defend their innocence in every court in the land. Meantime the integrity of the sport suffers with all the attention. This case is no different to the Cropp case, where she took it all the way to the Supreme Court and lost I remember it vividly, because at the time, she was riding the Chief Justice's horse in a big cup, and the Chief Justice, Dame Sian Elias, had to stand down from the case. The only difference with Cropp's case, at the time, the Rules of racing did not allow NZTR to suspend her license http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/279835/Racehorse-owning-judge-stands-down-from-Cropp-case Edited September 13, 2018 by hesi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jess Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 The "statement" I read was on the Allstars website - so you would expect it to be directed at their own "fans" or customers. As such you would also expect it to be, essentially, self-serving. It took a certain position - mostly dwelling on the treatment of the accused - rather than the accusations. As Brando alluded to - painting the accused & wider industry as victims. Whatever the merit of that argument, I think that is a side-show. It distracts from the principal issues here. And to claim it the industry is clean at this point is probably more an "aspirational goal" than a reality. The past & the present suggest otherwise - as well the this man should know. I'm not saying it's rotten to the core & acknowledge his right to promulgate whatever messages he wants from his own platform. But denial & rose-tinted glasses won't save the industry & its reputation. We might as well embrace the scrutiny now & try to turn this into an opportunity to sort out whatever (and whoever) is determined to have gone wrong. There is more chance of re-building confidence in the industry that way than walking round like a kid with chocolate all over its face crying foul because it's been accused of stealing the choccy biscuits ... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muzenza365 Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 I have not read an article in this weeks Informant, but have been told there is a very interesting piece written by Frank Marrion,so i will be seeking out the Informant ASAP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted September 13, 2018 Share Posted September 13, 2018 12 hours ago, LongOwner said: You righteous people who do not believe in our justice system , HRNZ and more particularly the RIU who did not carry out its role in the first place and sold there professionalism down the river should be paying the drivers. Interesting take on things. Am I correct in hearing you say the RIU did not carry out its role? You expect them to pay for lost wages? It appears you are very angry that the RIU made a decision to pass on their concerns to the police because they realised,amongst other things, they didn"t have the resources needed to fully investigate the possible illegal activity reported to them.. Youv"e got it all back to front. You should be angry at the possible illegal activity, and those involved in it,not at those who helped uncover it. ……. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poisoned Dwarf Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 On 13/09/2018 at 12:34 AM, Poisoned Dwarf said: ARSENIC from the same family as THOMASS ? and also MARDI GR ASS b.. bandits everywhere ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagship uberalles Posted September 14, 2018 Share Posted September 14, 2018 3 hours ago, Poisoned Dwarf said: and also MARDI GR ASS b.. bandits everywhere ! Don't drop the soap p.d?? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 8 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said: What the hell is this about? happy are you not up with this story?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 1 minute ago, hunterthepunter said: happy are you not up with this story?? No idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongOwner Posted September 15, 2018 Author Share Posted September 15, 2018 Just now, Happy Sunrise said: Thanks, PD. I must have been under a rock that year. Wow, interesting story. I will leave it at that! So all you people who think NZ Police are pure , RIU are pure and the Press / Fairfax play by the rules and are so 100% correct take a breath they are all self centred egotistical overzealous big heads who destroy people’s lives . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 1 hour ago, LongOwner said: So all you people who think NZ Police are pure , RIU are pure and the Press / Fairfax play by the rules and are so 100% correct take a breath they are all self centred egotistical overzealous big heads who destroy people’s lives . I think the type of defense your mounting is doing more harm than good to your cause. Bit sad to read your posts. You seem to think we"re all stupid as well.. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jess Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 2 hours ago, LongOwner said: So all you people who think NZ Police are pure , RIU are pure and the Press / Fairfax play by the rules and are so 100% correct take a breath they are all self centred egotistical overzealous big heads who destroy people’s lives . Long-O - steady on. You are tarring a helluva lot of ppl with a very broad black brush with yr statement... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jess Posted September 15, 2018 Share Posted September 15, 2018 Chief- I'm not usually one for censorship as you know but I think that last post should go. I think a little more respect is called for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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