Grand National?

[Doomed]

Has there been any comment yet about whether they intend to give it a go again this season?

Do people think there are likely to be any jumps races at Riccarton in August?

It does seem a bit bizarre when you think about it if it does go ahead. No other jumps races in the South and yet they will probably put up big stakes for what are basically exhibition races.  Bring in all the contestants, horses, jockeys and trainers, at incredible expense. It seems to run against the policies that apply to most other aspects of racing: eliminating everything that appears to be inefficient. Waimate and Wairoa must look on in bemusement.

[Chief Stipe]

18 minutes ago, Doomed said:

Do people think there are likely to be any jumps races at Riccarton in August?

 

The easiest way to find out would be to ask a local trainer if they've seen any maintenance work done on the Steeplechase course.  Second thoughts maybe not.....they haven't done much on it for a while!

[Special Agent]

When you think of the goings on at Riccarton it is quite ridiculous.  Putting in a synthetic track, not maintaining the turf course to an acceptable racing standard during summer, and demolishing the whole jumping scene, are all the most stupid actions a racing club could make.

Foresight would have told you to hold off on the shutting down of jumps racing, not only at their own track but killing jumps racing across the whole south island, in case the AWT fails.

[Freda]

On 24/04/2023 at 11:43 AM, Doomed said:

Has there been any comment yet about whether they intend to give it a go again this season?

Do people think there are likely to be any jumps races at Riccarton in August?

It does seem a bit bizarre when you think about it if it does go ahead. No other jumps races in the South and yet they will probably put up big stakes for what are basically exhibition races.  Bring in all the contestants, horses, jockeys and trainers, at incredible expense. It seems to run against the policies that apply to most other aspects of racing: eliminating everything that appears to be inefficient. Waimate and Wairoa must look on in bemusement.

I spoke to Paul Nelson recently, he is as much in the dark as anyone.  I asked him to keep me posted once the jumping assn. have had a meeting or two and someone actually knows what is happening.  The programme came out recently but then disappeared just as quickly.    As he pointed out, preparing a jumper is not a five minute undertaking, you need some certainty as to what events may or may not be held.

Kevin Hughes was the last jumping supporter of note here [ at Riccarton] and once wife Pam became unable to school and educate, they had little option left.  The last jumper they had, Speedy Jax, was sent to Australia and although he didn't achieve great success, still managed to triple his earnings in a very short time.

The Parsons' team, also once jumping supporters,  have chronic staffing issues and Tina C, who used to do a bit of schooling, is hardly likely to do any now, she's far too injury prone.

Andertons, Tylers, the only others who have sufficient numbers to matter, have obviously seen the writing on the wall and don't worry any more, and Jo Gordon and a few others with lesser numbers have sent their charges north.   My bloke was the last horse to be ticketed here, and go on to race, but he had to head north as well.

One can blame trainers for not doing more, but beating one's head against a brick wall is just soul destroying.   Lack of riders, a programme which is unhelpful, the cost of preparing a long-term product with no certainty whatsoever, makes the end result inevitable.   Like many, I will be sad to see no Nationals  - although I think the Club isn't considering that likelihood - but I cannot, for the life of me, see the point of having them here.

[Special Agent]

It makes no sense whatsoever to hold Grand National steeplechases or hurdles at Riccarton when the south island has no jumpers and no lead up races.  We could go on until blue in the face about how inept the people in charge are for letting this happen but, the fact of the matter is they have let it happen.

Has anyone been privvy to the responses received to last year's survey on the matter?  Did anyone get a return email following their submission?

The decisions around jumping have been poor ones.  For the south island at least there needs to be a whole new class of horse and programming structure created to stop wastage.  With this "duty of care" rule now in place, rather than the group of horses that could normally go jumping now destined for a plate or can, NZTR had better devise regular races to cater for those requiring longer and slower events.  They may have to be for amateur riders, probationers and apprentices with less than 20 race day rides under their belts.  These races could serve as qualifying events for emerging jockeys where trials are scarce.  Let them only use the whip with their hands on the reins and make the races penalty free for the horse and owner.

[Doomed]

2 hours ago, Freda said:

I spoke to Paul Nelson recently, he is as much in the dark as anyone.  I asked him to keep me posted once the jumping assn. have had a meeting or two and someone actually knows what is happening.  The programme came out recently but then disappeared just as quickly.    As he pointed out, preparing a jumper is not a five minute undertaking, you need some certainty as to what events may or may not be held.

Kevin Hughes was the last jumping supporter of note here [ at Riccarton] and once wife Pam became unable to school and educate, they had little option left.  The last jumper they had, Speedy Jax, was sent to Australia and although he didn't achieve great success, still managed to triple his earnings in a very short time.

The Parsons' team, also once jumping supporters,  have chronic staffing issues and Tina C, who used to do a bit of schooling, is hardly likely to do any now, she's far too injury prone.

Andertons, Tylers, the only others who have sufficient numbers to matter, have obviously seen the writing on the wall and don't worry any more, and Jo Gordon and a few others with lesser numbers have sent their charges north.   My bloke was the last horse to be ticketed here, and go on to race, but he had to head north as well.

One can blame trainers for not doing more, but beating one's head against a brick wall is just soul destroying.   Lack of riders, a programme which is unhelpful, the cost of preparing a long-term product with no certainty whatsoever, makes the end result inevitable.   Like many, I will be sad to see no Nationals  - although I think the Club isn't considering that likelihood - but I cannot, for the life of me, see the point of having them here.

I don't think anyone blames the trainers for not doing more. I have the greatest admiration for the Tylers and Parsons especially. The SI would be lost without them. I enjoy every success they have. The Tylers hardly got any mention anywhere for their success last weekend. I hope the CJC at least bought them a beer and a sausage roll.

[Huey]

On 26/04/2023 at 8:20 AM, Special Agent said:

It makes no sense whatsoever to hold Grand National steeplechases or hurdles at Riccarton when the south island has no jumpers and no lead up races.  We could go on until blue in the face about how inept the people in charge are for letting this happen but, the fact of the matter is they have let it happen.

Has anyone been privvy to the responses received to last year's survey on the matter?  Did anyone get a return email following their submission?

The decisions around jumping have been poor ones.  For the south island at least there needs to be a whole new class of horse and programming structure created to stop wastage.  With this "duty of care" rule now in place, rather than the group of horses that could normally go jumping now destined for a plate or can, NZTR had better devise regular races to cater for those requiring longer and slower events.  They may have to be for amateur riders, probationers and apprentices with less than 20 race day rides under their belts.  These races could serve as qualifying events for emerging jockeys where trials are scarce.  Let them only use the whip with their hands on the reins and make the races penalty free for the horse and owner.

Just more nzracing admin I'm afraid.

They are trying to build an industry based on a fallacy. The resurrection of the industry has been steering them in the face for years, better use of existing assets ( awt were never needed) , better (fairer) programming, better handicapping, stop the favouritism & bias for the good of the industry & better admin from people with skin in the game . Jumps racing no different - in fact it's ruined now.

 

Instead we get a bunch of I'll thought out chibberish or Aussie & International plagiarism from our administrators.

Etain the next noise to keep border line owners in the game.

Edited April 26, 2023 by Huey

[Ludwig]

I noticed today at Timaru that the steeples jumps looked in pretty good condition, and even at Oamaru, they look ok.

If the Grand National is to continue at Riccarton, then I have wondered why a wee mini jumps circuit in the fortnight prior couldn't be organised. A week at Oamaru, the following at Timaru....travel incentives, plus it gives northern trainers the chance to bring a wider team, and even the odd southern trainer might see an opening.

Don't really know, but unless some new ideas are forthcoming, the Grand National has to be gone.

[Freda]

I didn't take any notice of the jumps, but the track itself was in superb condition. 

Good racing on a beautiful autumn day.

[mikeynz]

It's not always perfect at Timaru but most times it's a step up from Riccarton

[Freda]

Yes,  Mikey, it  was a very enjoyable day.  I haven't been down there for a good while and it struck me that I had forgotten how pleasant it was, and the track was a credit to the management also.

Ashburton has been as far as I've travelled  [personally] and although that club is trying hard to upgrade its facilities [ which are awful for horses and basic for people]  they are cash-strapped,and as the designated '2nd' option behind the CJC for both racing and training, there should have been some financial support from that direction.  Clearly that hasn't happened.   They have, however, acquired a bloody good track manager, so that's one plus for Ashburton.  

[Doomed]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

Yes,  Mikey, it  was a very enjoyable day.  I haven't been down there for a good while and it struck me that I had forgotten how pleasant it was, and the track was a credit to the management also.

Ashburton has been as far as I've travelled  [personally] and although that club is trying hard to upgrade its facilities [ which are awful for horses and basic for people]  they are cash-strapped,and as the designated '2nd' option behind the CJC for both racing and training, there should have been some financial support from that direction.  Clearly that hasn't happened.   They have, however, acquired a bloody good track manager, so that's one plus for Ashburton.  

That is interesting that Ashburton is "cash-strapped". They hold so much racing, and on pretty good dates that you would think they would be doing well. And, as you say, they are the only option if the Riccarton turf fails, other than the inside track, so you would think the industry would be pouring money in to make sure Ashburton is up to a high standard.

[Special Agent]

What do you think the main reason for being cash strapped is?

Do they only run industry days?

Are not all races sponsored?

Are they paying out a lot in wages?

What have all these reports come up with to make their operation a viable one?

[Doomed]

18 minutes ago, Special Agent said:

What do you think the main reason for being cash strapped is?

Do they only run industry days?

Are not all races sponsored?

Are they paying out a lot in wages?

What have all these reports come up with to make their operation a viable one?

They run lots of feature meetings in both codes with decent stakes. The big problem is that Ashburton isn't a particularly big place: only about 35,000 people, about 15,000 smaller than Timaru. In decades gone by funding for major projects would have come from the industry's amentities fund, which no longer exists as far as I'm aware. The new public grandstand was funded in that way back in the 80s. Back in the 70s the new galloping track would have been funded in the same fashion.

So you have a track and town with not many galloping trainers, lots of race-meetings poured into it, not much local interest from sponsors and the public, and an expectation that their track will be ready to go at a moments notice should Riccarton get into trouble. All this with very little contribution from the industry towards maintaining and improving amenities.

There is a tiny, insignificant minority of people (me and possibly two others) who feel the racing industry in the SI may have been better off going forward if Ashburton, Timaru and Riccarton had each been given $5m apiece to bring all of their amenties up to a good standard rather than pouring $15m into the white elephant.

Ashburton was always quite a well run track, with good management who have all gone now. It was all well and good selecting them as the Riccarton back up track in a downsized industry, but they needed to be funded accordingly and it doesn't sound like this is happening. The model still depends on Timaru, Geraldine, Methven, Banks Pen, Rangiora etc all being sold and the millions being poured into Riccarton with a few crumbs to Ashburton to keep them ticking over in case they are needed.

 

[Special Agent]

Trevor Robertson and Fiona Tonks were at the helm at Ashburton from what I recall.

If the model you refer to was mooted in any other industry you would be deemed a failure and expected to come up with a proper solution.  As for relying on the sales of courses you have mentioned, they are partially owned by harness clubs.  Has the problem with this concept not been realised yet?  I'm sure the Geraldine Trotting Club and Banks Peninsula Harness members will be thrilled to own a slice of a floundering outfit with a syntheic track where standardbreds will not be welcome.

[Doomed]

11 minutes ago, Special Agent said:

Trevor Robertson and Fiona Tonks were at the helm at Ashburton from what I recall.

If the model you refer to was mooted in any other industry you would be deemed a failure and expected to come up with a proper solution.  As for relying on the sales of courses you have mentioned, they are partially owned by harness clubs.  Has the problem with this concept not been realised yet?  I'm sure the Geraldine Trotting Club and Banks Peninsula Harness members will be thrilled to own a slice of a floundering outfit with a syntheic track where standardbreds will not be welcome.

Yes, Trevor and Fiona did a great job. We just don't have people like that running many clubs these days.

[Freda]

Back to the Grand National meeting;   the programme is not yet out on the online calendar on the LoveRacing website.

Yet I'm sure I saw it in print, somewhere.

Anyone have any idea?

[Newmarket]

Hardly a surprise that jumping races are on the decline, has been for years. Last several years the standard of jumping horses have been very poor in the Sth island, bit of a joke really. 
 

With the pathetic do gooders wanting jumping races outlawed, will decline further in NZ. Jumps racing in NZ will not exist soon, that is the biggest cert ever. 

[Doomed]

I see the programme is up on the loveracing site. Plenty of jumps races, in fact virtually an identical programme to the last 50 years. The CJC don't like to change anything over-night.

The only stake listed is the winter cup at $85,000, a drop of $15,000 on the previous year. Although they may be waiting to see how much money flows through, and how quickly, from the TAB takeover.

[Freda]

The middle day all synthetic, no jumping at all on that day, unlike last year.

Edited May 16, 2023 by Freda

[Special Agent]

The phase out continues.  You'd have to wonder how many jumpers will venture down to the Grand National carnival, and how long before the reference to jumping goes completely with a change to the Winter Carnival, or something.

[Special Agent]

One would hope consultation with interested parties happened before making that decision.

Woo hoo synthetic racing!!

[Freda]

Yeah...as far as I know, there was little or no consultation.    But, I see Kevin Myers has a couple in tomorrow on the synthetic.

[Mardy]

8 hours ago, Freda said:

The middle day all synthetic, no jumping at all on that day, unlike last year.

So i'm guessing if they have GN Hurdles,that will be on GN Steeples day?.

[Freda]

14 hours ago, Mardy said:

So i'm guessing if they have GN Hurdles,that will be on GN Steeples day?.

Yes.