Timaru will be nervous.

[Doomed]

Timaru will be nervous after that meeting today. Superb racing on a perfect track. 10 mostly full fields and about 20 horses balloted and eliminated. If the Riccarton AWT meeting next week doesn't get 10 races with full fields Timaru will probably lose this meeting next year. The other SI golden child Wingatui already has pretty shaky fields this weekend. The big city clubs won't like the despised country track upstaging them.

I notice the AWT has a feature meeting a couple of weeks after that, and then a couple of week's later NZ's only feature meeting with a rating 75 as the highest rating race. They are certainly throwing the money at the AWTs to force trainers to use them. It is a pity there isn't a level playing field where trainers are allowed to choose which option is best for their horses. 

[Reefton]

12 hours ago, Doomed said:

Timaru will be nervous after that meeting today. Superb racing on a perfect track. 10 mostly full fields and about 20 horses balloted and eliminated. If the Riccarton AWT meeting next week doesn't get 10 races with full fields Timaru will probably lose this meeting next year. The other SI golden child Wingatui already has pretty shaky fields this weekend. The big city clubs won't like the despised country track upstaging them.

I notice the AWT has a feature meeting a couple of weeks after that, and then a couple of week's later NZ's only feature meeting with a rating 75 as the highest rating race. They are certainly throwing the money at the AWTs to force trainers to use them. It is a pity there isn't a level playing field where trainers are allowed to choose which option is best for their horses. 

You can deadset guarantee that the fat cat clubs will be constantly in Sharrock & George's ears demanding most of that $160m or whatever it is too.  Never mind that a vastly disproportionate amount of the funds used to start the TAB came from the Country Clubs(and a VASTLY disproportionate amount of that from Southern Country Clubs - many now long gone - as well)

Their(the 'Fat Cat's') troubles are never their fault they are always someone else's

 

[Doomed]

I find it interesting that the AWTs seem to be treated totally differently in the SI and NI. I always understood they were intended for low key winter racing. This certainly seems to be the case in the NI with all of the AWT meetings for the rest of the season being low key $14,000 meetings. In the SI however there are the two feature meetings coming up with $35,000 and $30,000 races. One of these meetings doesn't even have any race rated higher than 75: so an unusual sort of feature meeting, but a feature meeting nonetheless based on stakes levels. So a very different approach to the NI.

Interesting also that the SI starts AWT racing before the NI,  despite the SI generally have more settled Autumn weather than the north. I also imagine that the south will carry on longer into the Spring, despite once again the south having better Spring weather than the north.

Was it always intended that the approach was going to be totally different in the two islands? Does Riccarton end up with a much longer season of AWT racing and higher stakes because its turf track is considered inadequate?

I note as well that after next week's turf track meeting at Riccarton there is only one more turf meeting at Riccarton for the rest of the season. In fact Canterbury as a whole only has three feature meetings for the last three months of the season. Do Canterbury trainers feel they can happily form a programme for their better horses with three feature meetings in 14 weeks. It is certainly different to the Aussie pattern where trainers tend to race their horses every couple of weeks.

Worth considering also that the Riccarton feature meeting in mid June may well be the only properly wet track in Canterbury for the rest of the season. And of course that meeting has no maiden races, so I hope there aren't any trainers in Canterbury telling their owners they are just waiting for wet tracks for their maidens.

I don't really see how the windfall from the TAB sale will solve any of these significant problems in the SI. Although perhaps it is only me that sees them as problems.

[Chief Stipe]

10 minutes ago, Doomed said:

Does Riccarton end up with a much longer season of AWT racing and higher stakes because its turf track is considered inadequate?

Yes.

[Reefton]

2 hours ago, Doomed said:

I find it interesting that the AWTs seem to be treated totally differently in the SI and NI. I always understood they were intended for low key winter racing. This certainly seems to be the case in the NI with all of the AWT meetings for the rest of the season being low key $14,000 meetings. In the SI however there are the two feature meetings coming up with $35,000 and $30,000 races. One of these meetings doesn't even have any race rated higher than 75: so an unusual sort of feature meeting, but a feature meeting nonetheless based on stakes levels. So a very different approach to the NI.

Interesting also that the SI starts AWT racing before the NI,  despite the SI generally have more settled Autumn weather than the north. I also imagine that the south will carry on longer into the Spring, despite once again the south having better Spring weather than the north.

Was it always intended that the approach was going to be totally different in the two islands? Does Riccarton end up with a much longer season of AWT racing and higher stakes because its turf track is considered inadequate?

I note as well that after next week's turf track meeting at Riccarton there is only one more turf meeting at Riccarton for the rest of the season. In fact Canterbury as a whole only has three feature meetings for the last three months of the season. Do Canterbury trainers feel they can happily form a programme for their better horses with three feature meetings in 14 weeks. It is certainly different to the Aussie pattern where trainers tend to race their horses every couple of weeks.

Worth considering also that the Riccarton feature meeting in mid June may well be the only properly wet track in Canterbury for the rest of the season. And of course that meeting has no maiden races, so I hope there aren't any trainers in Canterbury telling their owners they are just waiting for wet tracks for their maidens.

I don't really see how the windfall from the TAB sale will solve any of these significant problems in the SI. Although perhaps it is only me that sees them as problems.

the only significant problem the CEO's see is how to fund substantial pay rises for themselves and more staff to suck the juice out of the industry

[Huey]

2 hours ago, Doomed said:

I find it interesting that the AWTs seem to be treated totally differently in the SI and NI. I always understood they were intended for low key winter racing. This certainly seems to be the case in the NI with all of the AWT meetings for the rest of the season being low key $14,000 meetings. In the SI however there are the two feature meetings coming up with $35,000 and $30,000 races. One of these meetings doesn't even have any race rated higher than 75: so an unusual sort of feature meeting, but a feature meeting nonetheless based on stakes levels. So a very different approach to the NI.

Interesting also that the SI starts AWT racing before the NI,  despite the SI generally have more settled Autumn weather than the north. I also imagine that the south will carry on longer into the Spring, despite once again the south having better Spring weather than the north.

Was it always intended that the approach was going to be totally different in the two islands? Does Riccarton end up with a much longer season of AWT racing and higher stakes because its turf track is considered inadequate?

I note as well that after next week's turf track meeting at Riccarton there is only one more turf meeting at Riccarton for the rest of the season. In fact Canterbury as a whole only has three feature meetings for the last three months of the season. Do Canterbury trainers feel they can happily form a programme for their better horses with three feature meetings in 14 weeks. It is certainly different to the Aussie pattern where trainers tend to race their horses every couple of weeks.

Worth considering also that the Riccarton feature meeting in mid June may well be the only properly wet track in Canterbury for the rest of the season. And of course that meeting has no maiden races, so I hope there aren't any trainers in Canterbury telling their owners they are just waiting for wet tracks for their maidens.

I don't really see how the windfall from the TAB sale will solve any of these significant problems in the SI. Although perhaps it is only me that sees them as problems.

You're correct on all fronts, the AWT in the SI is most certainly there in the capacity you've suggested to make Riccarton appear like it's needed at the expense of the rest of the industry...disaster awaits!!

[Freda]

5 hours ago, Doomed said:

I find it interesting that the AWTs seem to be treated totally differently in the SI and NI. I always understood they were intended for low key winter racing. This certainly seems to be the case in the NI with all of the AWT meetings for the rest of the season being low key $14,000 meetings. In the SI however there are the two feature meetings coming up with $35,000 and $30,000 races. One of these meetings doesn't even have any race rated higher than 75: so an unusual sort of feature meeting, but a feature meeting nonetheless based on stakes levels. So a very different approach to the NI.

Interesting also that the SI starts AWT racing before the NI,  despite the SI generally have more settled Autumn weather than the north. I also imagine that the south will carry on longer into the Spring, despite once again the south having better Spring weather than the north.

Was it always intended that the approach was going to be totally different in the two islands? Does Riccarton end up with a much longer season of AWT racing and higher stakes because its turf track is considered inadequate?

I note as well that after next week's turf track meeting at Riccarton there is only one more turf meeting at Riccarton for the rest of the season. In fact Canterbury as a whole only has three feature meetings for the last three months of the season. Do Canterbury trainers feel they can happily form a programme for their better horses with three feature meetings in 14 weeks. It is certainly different to the Aussie pattern where trainers tend to race their horses every couple of weeks.

Worth considering also that the Riccarton feature meeting in mid June may well be the only properly wet track in Canterbury for the rest of the season. And of course that meeting has no maiden races, so I hope there aren't any trainers in Canterbury telling their owners they are just waiting for wet tracks for their maidens.

I don't really see how the windfall from the TAB sale will solve any of these significant problems in the SI. Although perhaps it is only me that sees them as problems.

I was lucky to get two out of maidens  by heading south...but those with reasonable horses which need soft turf have been thrown to the wolves.

And no. You're not the only one who sees the problems.  But management doesn't seem to consider the situation to be a problem at all.  Don't forget, though, that the S.I is now considered to be 'one region' .  So the prospect of travelling all over the Mainland is the option we have.

[Special Agent]

Three things spring to mind after reading this thread.

1. NI and SI AWT meetings do differ.  The trainers in the north have enough options to not have to race on synthetic.  If the trialling at Awapuni so far is anything to go by I still don't think we are going to see racing on it.

2. Another anomoly is we are still breeding true blue wet trackers for which trainers will find hard to place if AWT's are the only option.

3. What double standards are at play making the south island one region when reasons given for the closure of Wairoa, Gisborne etc included the travel distance.

[Doomed]

13 minutes ago, Special Agent said:

Three things spring to mind after reading this thread.

1. NI and SI AWT meetings do differ.  The trainers in the north have enough options to not have to race on synthetic.  If the trialling at Awapuni so far is anything to go by I still don't think we are going to see racing on it.

2. Another anomoly is we are still breeding true blue wet trackers for which trainers will find hard to place if AWT's are the only option.

3. What double standards are at play making the south island one region when reasons given for the closure of Wairoa, Gisborne etc included the travel distance.

I often wonder how many at NZTR realise it is significantly further from Christchurch to Invercargill than it is from Hamilton to Wellington.

[Freda]

Pitty was going to send Petone a map once.

[Freda]

And now that the outfit is going to be based in Waikato, anywhere south of Wellington is going to be considered a foreign country.

[Huey]

9 hours ago, Special Agent said:

Three things spring to mind after reading this thread.

1. NI and SI AWT meetings do differ.  The trainers in the north have enough options to not have to race on synthetic.  If the trialling at Awapuni so far is anything to go by I still don't think we are going to see racing on it.

2. Another anomoly is we are still breeding true blue wet trackers for which trainers will find hard to place if AWT's are the only option.

3. What double standards are at play making the south island one region when reasons given for the closure of Wairoa, Gisborne etc included the travel distance.

Decisions in this industry in NZ are made to suit an agenda and a certain select few simple as that, that in a way explains the success of Aus. they've made an industry that caters for the many not the few.

The shame of it all is in due course there will be only a few left, then the industry won't function like they think it does.

[Special Agent]

There is this delusional idea that elitism is the way to go.  Oh boy, are they wrong!!

Anyone who has recently seen invoices for feed, plates, vet or transport will realise it is going to take more than the exclusive to keep the industry ticking over.  The costs and risks need to be spread across a multitude of participants.  Even the licence groups along with their affiliates being squeezed out will unlikely return.  The field sizes are already reflecting a dire state.

NZ seems to want to pick and choose bits from Aussie to weave into the Kiwi racing fabric.  As you say Huey an industry catering for many rather than a few is one aspect we should be adopting/adapting.  Any business looks for a wide customer base to set an unbreakable foundation.  Even the mighty fall.

Mr Wolf not that long ago a prime example.

Edited April 28, 2023 by Special Agent

[The Centaur]

5 hours ago, Freda said:

And now that the outfit is going to be based in Waikato, anywhere south of Wellington is going to be considered a foreign country.

What's all that about?  The Waikato bit.

[Freda]

30 minutes ago, The Centaur said:

What's all that about?  The Waikato bit.

Easier to attract and retain staff.

[Special Agent]

I don't buy that.  There are people interested in racing right across the country.  Bruce told us at the latest Road Show that they have people working in some of their departments like finance who have no idea about racing.  There are worse places to live than Wellington as far as work is concerned.

So, I would take much convincing on that statement.

[Freda]

19 hours ago, Special Agent said:

I don't buy that.  There are people interested in racing right across the country.  Bruce told us at the latest Road Show that they have people working in some of their departments like finance who have no idea about racing.  There are worse places to live than Wellington as far as work is concerned.

So, I would take much convincing on that statement.

I don't need to be convinced,  I just look at the whole set-up and think, yeah, more b/s we will all live with because the likelihood of an insurrection from the ranks is zero.

We'll just go along like sheep and live with the implosion.

[Chief Stipe]

11 minutes ago, Freda said:

I don't need to be convinced,  I just look at the whole set-up and think, yeah, more b/s we will all live with because the likelihood of an insurrection from the ranks is zero.

We'll just go along like sheep and live with the implosion.

That's the problem.  The key stakeholders act as if they are servants and so get treated as such.  When in fact they are customers and should be treated accordingly.

I chuckle now when I see the accusations that it's all the "northern cartels fault" (eh @Joe Bloggs and @nomates ) but to varying degrees every region has its cartel or clique.  Often they are just as imaginary as the Northern one and just as often used as an excuse to do nothing.

 

[Freda]

4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

That's the problem.  The key stakeholders act as if they are servants and so get treated as such.  When in fact they are customers and should be treated accordingly.

I chuckle now when I see the accusations that it's all the "northern cartels fault" (eh @Joe Bloggs and @nomates ) but to varying degrees every region has its cartel or clique.  Often they are just as imaginary as the Northern one and just as often used as an excuse to do nothing.

 

Oh, you do spout some bollocks at times.

When intelligent, passionate and involved stakeholders [ like Reefton ] get ignored or treated as fools there is zip that they can do in the greater scheme of things.  And there is nothing imaginary about the 'northern cartel'.   

I can vividly recall a northern high-profile trainer announcing that 'they are costing us money, get rid of them'  [ referring to small clubs].     And the number of other northern folk nodding in agreement.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

And there is nothing imaginary about the 'northern cartel'.   

I can vividly recall a northern high-profile trainer announcing that 'they are costing us money, get rid of them'  [ referring to small clubs].     And the number of other northern folk nodding in agreement.

So that's proof that a 'northern cartel' exists?

So to use the standard historical definition of a cartel - a coalition or cooperative arrangement between political parties intended to promote a mutual interest.  There is no evidence of that happening in the South Island or at the CJC?  That is there is no cooperative arrangement between some local trainers and the local administrators. 

"No there's nothing wrong with the turf track - doesn't need any renovations." 

So this northern cartel is influencing ALL the decisions that are being made both at the TAB and NZTR?  Really?  

[Freda]

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

So that's proof that a 'northern cartel' exists?

So to use the standard historical definition of a cartel - a coalition or cooperative arrangement between political parties intended to promote a mutual interest.  There is no evidence of that happening in the South Island or at the CJC?  That is there is no cooperative arrangement between some local trainers and the local administrators. 

"No there's nothing wrong with the turf track - doesn't need any renovations." 

So this northern cartel is influencing ALL the decisions that are being made both at the TAB and NZTR?  Really?  

No, you're quite right, but selective notice is clearly being taken. 

Factional self-interest is definitely rife.

An impartial fact-finding mission would be a good idea bur doesn't seem likely to happen. 

[Reefton]

13 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

That's the problem.  The key stakeholders act as if they are servants and so get treated as such.  When in fact they are customers and should be treated accordingly.

I chuckle now when I see the accusations that it's all the "northern cartels fault" (eh @Joe Bloggs and @nomates ) but to varying degrees every region has its cartel or clique.  Often they are just as imaginary as the Northern one and just as often used as an excuse to do nothing.

 

Well I am in the throes of arguing pretty strongly with the RIB over the way my Club was treated in January.  If I wasn't such a dogmatic prick I would have given up months ago but I(and my Club) am absolutely being treated like a servant.  These people have an arrogance and total 'we know best' attitude that is simply astounding ESPECIALLY in light of the series of disasters(usually in regards tracks) that they have failed to see coming.

Standing up to these guys is not an issue to me BUT it is increasingly obvious that they are just going to dead bat the issue until I run out of enthusiasm.  I can also do it because I have no fear of recrimination(and a pretty good grasp of the english language as well) but the likes of licenced persons do not or may not have that luxury.  As an example the RIB is insisting the jockeys are Reefton were consulted and were in favour of abandonment.  One senior rider, who I will obviously not name, told me Oatham just announced to them that the meeting was off.  What realistic chance have I got of expecting this rider to stand up to support me?  None and I would certainly not ask the person to do so.  I saw the way Mouse McCann's opinion, having ridden the track, and every other South Island venue, for thirty years. was dismissed out of hand.  At least one trainer has been threatened with a misconduct charge over the events of that day and their quite reasonable reaction

These people have been granted the power to make and implement whatever rules they like and, in this case break them as well when they felt like it.  I am not entirely sure what realistic options the stakeholders have to take meaningful action against these guys.  It all comes down to those who appoint  them and the system of appointments.  That is one of my favorite topics of course but the day the election of representatives by the industry itself was done away with was the beginning of the end.

Nobody in the hierarchy gives an eff about the stakeholders and, until that changes, the game will continue its downward spiral. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Reefton]

8 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

So that's proof that a 'northern cartel' exists?

So to use the standard historical definition of a cartel - a coalition or cooperative arrangement between political parties intended to promote a mutual interest.  There is no evidence of that happening in the South Island or at the CJC?  That is there is no cooperative arrangement between some local trainers and the local administrators. 

"No there's nothing wrong with the turf track - doesn't need any renovations." 

So this northern cartel is influencing ALL the decisions that are being made both at the TAB and NZTR?  Really?  

You're a bit bloody thick if you cannot see proof of a Northern cartel.  Stop trying to put Pam, a licence holder who could well face adverse consequences if she was to say all she knows, in a compromising position.

[Reefton]

10 hours ago, Freda said:

Oh, you do spout some bollocks at times.

When intelligent, passionate and involved stakeholders [ like Reefton ] get ignored or treated as fools there is zip that they can do in the greater scheme of things.  And there is nothing imaginary about the 'northern cartel'.   

I can vividly recall a northern high-profile trainer announcing that 'they are costing us money, get rid of them'  [ referring to small clubs].     And the number of other northern folk nodding in agreement.

That Northern Trainer wouldn't be one who announced he was off to Aussie a few years back but who has mysteriously stayed put would it?  Talked about how great Aussie was and how easy it was going to be over there.

All that glitters is not gold!

 

[Chief Stipe]

Whoever is doing what at Riccarton isn't working is it?

MEETING NEWS

Riccarton Synthetic Trials Cancelled

 

The Riccarton Trials scheduled for tomorrow (Tuesday 2nd May) have been cancelled due to insufficient entries.