Special Agent Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 Since when has competition been a bad thing? Where do you all think all these extra punters and extra bets are going to come from? The turnover will need to be massive just to have the same return to racing once Entain takes out their 50%, okay I know that doesn't apply early in the contract. We only have 5 million people, many of them non punters. Do you really think Entain is going to improve the quality of our racing product and increase field size and number of races on a card sufficiently to double or treble investment? It's all very well listening to projections and modelling but it has to turn into reality. I think we should all prepare and look at what part time jobs outside of the racing industry could be going in our area 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 Of course if the Aussie were to get the s#*ts over this blocking Kiwis from betting with their agencies and (1) refuse to pay any commissions on Aussie betting on NZ Racing and/or (2)drop coverage of NZ Racing altogether from their screens then this could seriously shoot NZ racing fair in the foot. Pretty big risk and the likes of Vlandys aren't going to take too much shiite from little old NZ It isn't like the Aussies would be lapping up the quality of our product. the only advantage we have is the time of day our product is available to them. If Entain is good enough it will grab those customers back from offshore agencies. If not then the serious punters will get around it using those VPN apps regardless. This gets interesting when the reality comes out from De lore and co who have bothered to study it And when Entain is looking to squeeze some extra profit where will that leave the outlying clubs when they refuse to service their meetings with TV coverage or totes? You cannot even play them off against another (offshore) provider and run your own totes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Reefton said: Of course if the Aussie were to get the s#*ts over this blocking Kiwis from betting with their agencies and (1) refuse to pay any commissions on Aussie betting on NZ Racing and/or (2)drop coverage of NZ Racing altogether from their screens then this could seriously shoot NZ racing fair in the foot. Wouldn't that be handing Entain the whole NZ market on a plate? Can't see the likes of Ladbrokes or Neds giving it up. Edited June 1, 2023 by curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 23 minutes ago, curious said: Wouldn't that be handing Entain the whole NZ market on a plate? Can't see the likes of Ladbrokes or Neds giving it up. Correct but Sharrock commented how they are obtaining commissions from nine(?) different gambling organisations at the opening of the Riccarton synthetic. Presuming one is the NSW TAB (Tab Corp(?)) if NZ moves to stop Kiwis betting with TAB Corp then TAB Corp stops providing coverage of NZ races so as to lessen the attractiveness of the product to Aussie punters(you don't want to bet on it if you can't see it) TAB Corp puts pressure on Sky Racing(for all I know they might own it or a fair piece of it) to downgrade or remove NZ coverage whether direct or through the Racing organisations over there. Slowly but surely they strangle whatever remaining interest Aussie punters have in our product thereby repaying the NZ government for making Entain the monopoly. Then when renegotiation of the access deals to Aussie racing take place watch the commission rates go up(that will be Entain's issue but at the end of the day Entain's NZ punters will pay). NZ Racing needs Aussie racing a lot more than Aussie needs NZ. From an NZ Club perspective say the worst comes to the worst and Entain say they will no longer service our meetings we would want to have options to run our totes. If TAB Corp or whoever offer a better percentage commission deal we might use them for our on course operations. If Entain has the monopoly we (1) do not have any option but to use them and (2) do not have any bargaining power to extract extra commissions. AND if we have a deal with the Aussie(not that Reefton would be terribly appealing) we might be promoted to better coverage. If I am the Entain Accountants and want to wring extra profit out the first thing I will focus on is outlying courses that are expensive to service. The argument can't win with the TAB because at the end of the day they have a responsibility to the industry that set them up(and I contend owns them) but Entain have no such obligation - and I will bet will resist any imposition of that type of obligation. Sure they will retain the current TAB staffing but as natural attrition takes hold there is no way the current TAB staff levels will be maintained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 3 hours ago, Freda said: That's what concerns me. Which reminds me....has the new $2m+ IT system for NZTR been useful for trainers? Is it actually in use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 Has anyone had a look at the new look www.TABNZ.Org website https://tabnz.org/? It's terrible. What's more try and find the latest turnover and profit figures!! What a bloody joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 12 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Has anyone had a look at the new look www.TABNZ.Org website https://tabnz.org/? It's terrible. What's more try and find the latest turnover and profit figures!! What a bloody joke. Yeahh. No idea what they've done with that. Hopefully, it's work in progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 6 minutes ago, curious said: Yeahh. No idea what they've done with that. Hopefully, it's work in progress. You never release a website for a major organisation not finished. Unbelievable. I wonder what it cost. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 56 minutes ago, Reefton said: Correct but Sharrock commented how they are obtaining commissions from nine(?) different gambling organisations at the opening of the Riccarton synthetic. Presuming one is the NSW TAB (Tab Corp(?)) if NZ moves to stop Kiwis betting with TAB Corp then TAB Corp stops providing coverage of NZ races so as to lessen the attractiveness of the product to Aussie punters(you don't want to bet on it if you can't see it) TAB Corp puts pressure on Sky Racing(for all I know they might own it or a fair piece of it) to downgrade or remove NZ coverage whether direct or through the Racing organisations over there. Slowly but surely they strangle whatever remaining interest Aussie punters have in our product thereby repaying the NZ government for making Entain the monopoly. Then when renegotiation of the access deals to Aussie racing take place watch the commission rates go up(that will be Entain's issue but at the end of the day Entain's NZ punters will pay). NZ Racing needs Aussie racing a lot more than Aussie needs NZ. From an NZ Club perspective say the worst comes to the worst and Entain say they will no longer service our meetings we would want to have options to run our totes. If TAB Corp or whoever offer a better percentage commission deal we might use them for our on course operations. If Entain has the monopoly we (1) do not have any option but to use them and (2) do not have any bargaining power to extract extra commissions. AND if we have a deal with the Aussie(not that Reefton would be terribly appealing) we might be promoted to better coverage. If I am the Entain Accountants and want to wring extra profit out the first thing I will focus on is outlying courses that are expensive to service. The argument can't win with the TAB because at the end of the day they have a responsibility to the industry that set them up(and I contend owns them) but Entain have no such obligation - and I will bet will resist any imposition of that type of obligation. Sure they will retain the current TAB staffing but as natural attrition takes hold there is no way the current TAB staff levels will be maintained. Well I have a few buts to that. If, say TABCORB, decided not to take NZ or offer betting on it, I'm sure other operators would quickly take up the slack. As I mentioned, the Entain subsidaries almost for certain. They would also probably try to attract those customers to their NZ brands. Don't see how it would possibly reduce revenue to NZ TAB or NZ racing. Only to TABCORP. The BIUCs are enshrined in legislation and set by the Minister, albeit in consultation including with offshore operators, but they don't really have much negotiating power. On servicing smaller clubs, what you suggest seems highly unlikely to me if it even is possible under the terms of Entain's contract. It certainly wouldn't fit with their ethos as I sense it at this point. They clearly have plans to re-energise trackside, including a third channel and maybe more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 12 minutes ago, curious said: They clearly have plans to re-energise trackside, including a third channel and maybe more. Does that mean they will dump the current broadcasting/production contract with NEP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 50 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Which reminds me....has the new $2m+ IT system for NZTR been useful for trainers? Is it actually in use? Buggered if I know....things look the same to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, Freda said: Buggered if I know....things look the same to me. Mmmm they've gone real quiet on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 36 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Does that mean they will dump the current broadcasting/production contract with NEP? No idea. Maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Which reminds me....has the new $2m+ IT system for NZTR been useful for trainers? Is it actually in use? I thought one of the emails said SBS computer system starts 1st August 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 3 hours ago, curious said: Well I have a few buts to that. If, say TABCORB, decided not to take NZ or offer betting on it, I'm sure other operators would quickly take up the slack. As I mentioned, the Entain subsidaries almost for certain. They would also probably try to attract those customers to their NZ brands. Don't see how it would possibly reduce revenue to NZ TAB or NZ racing. Only to TABCORP. The BIUCs are enshrined in legislation and set by the Minister, albeit in consultation including with offshore operators, but they don't really have much negotiating power. On servicing smaller clubs, what you suggest seems highly unlikely to me if it even is possible under the terms of Entain's contract. It certainly wouldn't fit with their ethos as I sense it at this point. They clearly have plans to re-energise trackside, including a third channel and maybe more. You have clearly researched this a lot more than I. To be fair I cannot be bothered as I fervently hope I am out of the game come the next AGM and I am still trying to(verbally) smash some honesty into the RIB It is reassuring that all will be well with this thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 8 hours ago, Reefton said: You have clearly researched this a lot more than I. To be fair I cannot be bothered as I fervently hope I am out of the game come the next AGM and I am still trying to(verbally) smash some honesty into the RIB It is reassuring that all will be well with this thing Well, certainly a lifeline of some sort for 5 years. After that - we just have to hope that turnover/revenue has been improved by better professional management to make TAB's 50% at least on a par with now, if not more. Otherwise the ship can still sink. And that is only the funding. We as an industry still have to deal with the incumbent Code body management - and the RIB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 Freda, how are they going to increase revenue and reduce gambling harm ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 48 minutes ago, mikeynz said: Freda, how are they going to increase revenue and reduce gambling harm ? Oxymoron comes to mind. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 19 minutes ago, Freda said: Oxymoron comes to mind. You can't call Mikey that. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 18 hours ago, Reefton said: Of course if the Aussie were to get the s#*ts over this blocking Kiwis from betting with their agencies and (1) refuse to pay any commissions on Aussie betting on NZ Racing and/or (2)drop coverage of NZ Racing altogether from their screens then this could seriously shoot NZ racing fair in the foot. Pretty big risk and the likes of Vlandys aren't going to take too much shiite from little old NZ It isn't like the Aussies would be lapping up the quality of our product. the only advantage we have is the time of day our product is available to them. If Entain is good enough it will grab those customers back from offshore agencies. If not then the serious punters will get around it using those VPN apps regardless. This gets interesting when the reality comes out from De lore and co who have bothered to study it And when Entain is looking to squeeze some extra profit where will that leave the outlying clubs when they refuse to service their meetings with TV coverage or totes? You cannot even play them off against another (offshore) provider and run your own totes Very good post. Entain have stated they want to take the NZ 3 codes around the world. Ok, so that’s fine. But they will want those punters to bet on product outside NZ, yet they want to stop NZ punters from betting elsewhere? FFS, what am I missing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 15 hours ago, curious said: Well I have a few buts to that. If, say TABCORB, decided not to take NZ or offer betting on it, I'm sure other operators would quickly take up the slack. As I mentioned, the Entain subsidaries almost for certain. They would also probably try to attract those customers to their NZ brands. Don't see how it would possibly reduce revenue to NZ TAB or NZ racing. Only to TABCORP. The BIUCs are enshrined in legislation and set by the Minister, albeit in consultation including with offshore operators, but they don't really have much negotiating power. On servicing smaller clubs, what you suggest seems highly unlikely to me if it even is possible under the terms of Entain's contract. It certainly wouldn't fit with their ethos as I sense it at this point. They clearly have plans to re-energise trackside, including a third channel and maybe more. Try to attract customers to their NZ brands? Are you talking about overseas customers being lured by Entain? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefton Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, Newmarket said: Try to attract customers to their NZ brands? Are you talking about overseas customers being lured by Entain? my thoughts entirely. The NZ Harness racing might be of a good quality by international standards and I suppose greyhounds are greyhounds but not sure the NZ Thoroughbred product quite matches up to the worlds best. Big job to attract international punters to that schmoozle! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assange Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 15 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Does that mean they will dump the current broadcasting/production contract with NEP? Good question. Contracts are hard things to break and always involve costly legal action. And we are signing another 25 year one?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted June 1, 2023 Share Posted June 1, 2023 @curious have I got this right that even when Entain steps in there will still be a TAB Board and possibly Senior TAB managers. Basically is the Entain deal an outsource deal for the wagering service only or is it essentially a Corporate takeover with a license to operate for 25 years? There has to be some Governance structure that overseas that Entain meet their side of the bargain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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