Chief Stipe

Report now released. Industry Release - Awapuni and Riccarton Abandonments Nov 22 FINAL (1).pdf

Report attached. Industry Release - Awapuni and Riccarton Abandonments Nov 22 FINAL (1).pdf

Can we please cease posting about the Neal episode. It has been done to death and there are always innocent third parties affected in these cases. Isn't a bigger scandal the ongoing INCA saga, it's cost and ineffectiveness and what it represents I terms of the failed ex-cop failed modus operandi? The latter is part of the reason for the blow out in costs and what I understand is a request by the RIB to get MORE funding!

Assumed "performance enhancers".

Yes based on what the representative said, my research of the lab and its systems and equipment. Correct. They were conned as well. In many cases they were just using relabeled commonly used treatments. Hence the seller getting nailed for fraud. Quite possible coincidental but assisted by the fact that they were suddenly proactively treating their horses for ailments that the horses had. They just didn't know they were doing it. The common drugs weren't detected because along with the fraud went a narrative of when to use and when not to use. Advice that tended to align with the withholding periods in the rules. That said from all the samples seized and all the investigations where are these "new novel performance enhancers"? As I keep trying to through to you there is NO chemical molecule that can't be detected using modern testing methods. I've had first hand experience of the techniques in the honey industry where previously unknown active chemicals where detected rapidly when they were actually looked for. The research was based on comparing multiple honey samples to a known base control sample. Much more complex than testing horses where it is easy to get a profile of normal horse blood and tissue samples to use as a control. FFS - there could be any number of reasons why a horse runs 4th or 5th in a Group 1 race which may have looked an improvement. I've researched some of your "miraculously improved" race performances and have found in the past that the actual performance hasn't been significantly greater than what the horse has shown from time to time. Hell it might have got a softer run than it had previously or it might have been trained harder for the big money race. BTW most trainers do that i.e. "Set the horse for a particular race". Not all of us are looking for spiders under the bed. The point is if the big stables were using something "special" then the testing technology is available to identify what it is. I'm not sure the RIB are bright enough but would prefer to rely on anonymous tip-offs (always someone tipping or snitching), hide in hedges and then do expensive stable raids. Old school policing. What have they found? Tubing apparatus (every stable should have this), formaldehyde (the irrational reporting of this was beyond belief) and allegedly some bi-carb. Where is the mystery drug?

NZ just employs ex-cops who frequently got it wrong.

No what I'm saying is that the comment you quoted from the New York Lab representative saying they couldn't detect EPO or some performance enhancers wasn't because the technology is not available as you infer, but because he is either incompetent or the lab isn't up to standard. Can you please post a link to where the Feds declare that they found EPO in the bottles they seized? FFS you caste aspersions when a horse runs a fifth in Group race as evidence that its performance has "improved"!

If the Feds had seized bottles of performance enhancers where are the positive results from testing said bottles showing EPO in them?

I read that statement and researched the person who said it. His lab is archaic and the guy isn't up with the play which led me to look at the RIB owned company in NZ that does NZ's testing. I came to the conclusion they are very similar. The New York guy is 10 years behind the play. Where is the evidence that EPO enhances horse performance anyway? The physiology of a horse makes it very unlikely that EPO would have an effect anyway.

Yes and at the time I found that a very odd thing to say given what I've experienced hands-on with modern testing systems. Upon further investigation I came to the conclusion that the New York Lab is so far behind the times that it is irrelevant. The so called "scandal" is related to essentially mail fraud - in the States fraud is treated seriously. The majority of those convicted were responsible for fraud. They were manufacturing and dealing in unregistered, unlicensed and falsely labelled substances. The so called testing lab had samples of these so called performance-enhancing drugs - where are the results of their analysis? Where was the retrospective testing of samples?

Why do you call Tonkin "the blue magic man"?

Does anyone know where the latest RIB annual report or accounts are published?

All you needed to be able to do was know how to analyse an annual report that was public notice. Plus have a modicum of understanding of the wagering industry.

$14m a year and they are complaining even that is not enough! Meanwhile how much is going into drug testing? The industry owned lab is behind the times and the RIB should outsource more locally and to other jurisdictions.

I think these kids sitting in "the bunker" rerunning over and over High Definition race recordings counting whip strikes is a nonsense.

Why is it inaccurate? I've been saying for a long time that you can test for anything and find anything you want to.

Eh?! Your examples are for horses that ran 4th and 5th?

The Karaka Millions is an easy target. The problem is wider than those two races. Hell bad enough when comparing midweek to Saturday when the fields are the same quality.

It is going to get worse in my opinion. A respected business friend of mine in Auckland told me that recessionary times are already kicking in. There won't be a lot of spare discretionary cash to spend on an overpriced and comparatively poor quality product.

How they hell did the get "caught out with the TAB shortfall"? It was bleeding obvious for many months where things were heading.

Both horse racing codes should do this. Increase the rewards at the bottom and you will find more will stay in the game for longer. Fields will improve, competition will improve, owners get some money back for the next dream. Everyone wins. Instead we've increased disproportionately top end stakes which are won by a few top stables who will still line up if Group Stakes were 75% of current levels.

You raise a good point regarding stable numbers. If a stable has numbers and has a number of elite horses then they are at a training advantage. The stable doesn't need to go to trials or workouts to gauge where they are at as they have competition within the stable. Horses love trying to beat their mates and you can use that desire to raise the competitiveness of the all the stable horses. I remember one of the best couple of years the stable where my dad's horses were trained was when they had 4 or 5 top 3yr olds and a couple of open class horses. A small stable of less than 12 in work and I'm sure the class of horse in those couple of years lifted all the stable horses. It was fun too!

But don't "people talk about" the Dunn's just as much? For example the "Woodend Magic"? Most of the talk is based on envy and the unfortunate part of Kiwi culture the "Tall Poppy Syndrome".

Arguably either you or Gammalite could train Sundees Son to be a top liner.

Did you stop to think that they leave something in the tank on non-Group days or in the week prior so they have an edge on the big days? Perhaps the All-Star stable is good at winding up and winding down individual training programmes.