the galah

Lord forbes was the first horse in southland to break 4m for 3200m when he went 3.58.6 in the wyndham cup.,only 2 seconds outside the then nz record held by changeover. He was a great wee horse to his connections. You just don't see those owned/trained/driven horses anymore progress to the highest levels. That and the small time trainers with the good horses used to make the nz cup a great race,but now days that type of person and horse doesn't exist. And the constant domination of one stable in the nz cup has made it lose its past appeal to many of the regular harness racing followers,and has led to the realization from the small time trainer that success in that type of race is no longer realistic if they keep training. Its a bit like the melbourne cup which used to have horses with household names run in them,now the melbourne cup has a field with half them having there first start in australasia that no one has heard of.

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As ranga pointed out,i said Mcgrath did not have high TCO2 levels. Seems you have misinterpreted what i said. I'm not anti mcgrath,never have been,just think if he is caught doing something which gives him an advantage outside the rules, he needs to be penalised. You still think i am someone i'm not. I am guessing who you think i may be,but thats not me nor do i know whether what you are insinuating about them is true or not,nor do i really care. I did train some at one point.I started off by working for o'meara for 6 weeks and the only thing i learnt was....to quote another employee"when ....(vet) gives them a pre race drench they grow a leg.. Hes got the best milkshake in nz." So i asked that vet what he gave them pre race and he said como selenium and co forta i think it was. Thought he was just brushing me off but the first time i raced a horse at addington,who had won 2nd up elsewhere for me, i got a local vet to administer the drugs the canterbury vet had said. What happened was the local vet missed the vein,horse raced with a big bulge on its neck and unfortunately was never the same and it eventually became obvious its wind was buggered. That was the last time i had a horse attended by a vet pre race,i never once injected anything into a horses vein,never once tubed a horse,would not know how. So its time for you to move on from the insinuations,whoever you think i am.

Yes,looking at the published tco2 levels for mcgrath runners there is no pattern of elevated levels. That is why i say they put too many resources into pre race tco2 levels and would be more effective reducing the number of tests and using their resources elsewhere. More random pre race observations for example(without notification) and why not do more out of competition testing. Why don't the RIU just contract out that type of work to investigators who could specialize in that area of racing.The people who observed Mcgrath may not be liked by some,but they do appear to have got a result which helped justify their actions. If your doing nothing illegal to gain an advantage, then you would have nothing to worry about,would you. Either you want a level playing field or not. As jeff gural often says,don't just pay lip service,actually do something.

1)who knows but the late scratching of the 2 Mcgrath horses on the night and subsequently the very shortly thereafter transfer of horses to other stables may have something to do with possible media interest. Besides, why shouldn't they write an article? 2)Good questions. Last year i started a thread about the possible wasted resources being put into TCO2 testing. I suggested they needed to direct more resources into other means of testing,liaising with customs,observations,etc. Thats if they were serious,but i don't think they ever have been(until recently). Having said that If you look at the TCO2 readings they publish they do seem to be an indication of who they should be looking at more closely. 3&4)would be interesting to know,but the main point is it's not the investigators fault that they discovered breaches of the rules,it was Mcgraths actions that led to that. 5)revenge for inca failure? No matter how many times you say that doesn't make it true. Its still an ongoing case is it not. One thing that is clear is Mcgrath and his supporters played and continue to play a dumb game and its little surprise the attention they get. As Happy has said,look at the rubbish P4P writes on the other site.His personal attacks are so counter productive to those he is supposed to support. In that respect when it comes to the criticism some were giving jj flash for not fully expressing his views on the other site. We all know that place is a totally one sided echo chamber who simply discourage any opinions opposite and outside the handful driving most threads through banning and censoring comment. If you don't endorse what they have to say then your muzzled. This site allows opinions from both sides. Obviously Mcgrath was targeted.Thats the way it works when personalities are brought into it. Personally i hope that if they have information about pre race tubing or the use of performance enhancers they target those people as well.

As to the answer to number 4. I used to read all the New South Wales judicial reports which related to investigations of a similar nature..It was common practice for those investigating to undertake covert surveillance of licenceholders. I know i posted a couple of times a while back saying NSW authorities would do what it took to try and maintain the rules are enforced,whereas NZ did not seem interested in uncovering similar activity. There is 2 different sides,yet again,to the comments being made here. 1) Those that are unhappy that someone should be doing something outside the rules that gains them an unfair advantage. 2) those who"s sole focus seems to be the methods used to catch McGrath,not what he was doing. Why is that?

I think that came about partly a result of new personnel within the RIU and partly because of revelations gaining traction outside the RIU that had to be addressed.. Its been gradual.. And i don't always agree with some of their actions,but i understand they are trying to enforce the rules and deserve credit for taking that approach Its not just on the investigation side of things. Look at the stipe report side of things. Those who operate in the north island have been round for years and seem half blind sometimes when it comes to some high profile drivers. The younger south island stipes don't seem to miss much in comparison and don't give preferential treatment if you are high profile.. At the end of the day the industry requires punters,and punters need to believe the integrity side of things are being taken care of.

Youv'e got to start somewhere. Turning a blind eye had been the standard modus operandi by previous stipes/ RIU for years. How may times did they come out and warn that they would be testing for... in the future. Why,because they and industry leaders were never interested in catching anyone. Its always had been just hot air. Make no mistake,the previous inaction of the RIU is partly responsible for much of the current cases . Go back a few years and you had those running the show doing everything they could to cover up any wrongdoings,and the stipes openly picking on the small fry participants over nothings while turning a blind eye to blatant corruption. Now the current RIU have actually taken action they should be given credit for their actions. Not rubbished and be attacked personally like so many seem to do.

I should say i believe the same applies in both the north and south island. One, of the most inconsistent stables in the north island has horses who often run average at cambridge but go way better at auckland.. I'm thinking of a second tier stable here. just have a look at the published tco2 levels for an indication of why.

Do you really think i have to spell it out for you? How about you start with those who have previously been charged with similar offences. The best way to predict current behaviour is to look to past behaviour. Also you should look at those stables that have abnormally high injury rates which would indicate the use of pain suppressants.And occasionally there have been examples of sudden multiple deaths at stables,although i'm not aware of any stables who have had that in the last couple of years. Then just go watch the way some horses come back to scale after running record times,and look like they could go and run again in the next race. The occasional horse can do that,but every horse in the stable? Like i said some stables can do this and still say they are doing nothing illegal, often because they are ahead of the game in that respect. i think the above is limited to a handful of stables. In the big scheme of things i don't think Mcgrath was a big fish in that respect. Just an easy catch.

The McGrath case is one where i think many of us have conflicting thoughts. On one hand its confirmation of what anyone with 2 eyes open has been saying for years. That is certain stables operate outside the rules to gain an advantage over others. And of course there are other stables,those with the greatest resources, who are ahead of the game and use the latest "therapeutic's" knowing they are still operating within the rules. Reality is this will always be the case in many sports and horse racing is certainly one of them. And as i have been saying for some time the advance in the effectiveness of such therapeutics has resulted in a bigger gap between those who embrace there use and those who don't. We all know that. Those that deny that exists ,well they will fight tooth and nail to discredit anyone who says otherwise. Those people are very condescending and you lose respect for them but they are quite right to point out they are operating within the current rules, you can't stop them. Its all a vicious circle,you get trainers like Mcgrath trying to remain competitive,and to do so uses methods which are not allowed by the rules,and which he knows will give him an advantage over others. Whatever the reasons, the rules are there for the reasons of fair play. Just because someone else has more advanced methods of achieving optimum performance does not mean you can flout the rules and have no consequences if you get caught. Why did mcgrath feel the need to hand in his licence? Why not just accept that when you get caught you pay a price then move on and go again down the track. No one likes to see someone like mcgrath walk away,but people like this have to realise if you do something illegal and get caught there is a price to pay. Blaming the officials for catching you is just plain stupid. Handing in his licence was just a way of putting up the white flag. He doesn't have to spend a fortune in legal fees in the future if he just accepted what he did was wrong Thats my take on things.

An interesting read thanks. Did not appear to discount the bat theory.. I had read an article on some woman known as the Bat woman,china's leading expert apparently,after watching Tucker Carlson.. At the end of the article it quoted someone who they said was an expert on the virus "its crystal clear that bats,once again,are the natural reservoir..... Single introduction to humans followed by sustained human to human transmission" .

I guess we each have our own views on what to believe. You say the virus is not man made. The theory i put forward said it was carried by a bat then transferred to a human working in a laboratory known to do testing on infectious diseases carried by the breed of bat in question. maybe its just coincidence that it started in the part of wuhan where they do the testing ,,maybe not.

There has been quite a bit of media coverage quoting experts saying the virus came from the horseshoe bat. Watching the Tucker Carlson show on fox today they quoted Chinese scientists saying exactly that some 2 months ago. They are the same bat they have said caused the Sars virus. Interestingly they say this bat is not found anywhere near Wuhan but the chinese newspaper had quoted the scientists saying they believed it came from 1 of 2 government laboratories located in Wuhan where they do testing on infectious diseases and import the Horseshoe Bat for the testing . It seems there is now a belief by some governments and experts that the Chinese government deliberately mislead when they said it came from a food market very close to where the laboratories are situated. Does have a ring of truth to me given it was china scientists in a chinese run paper who first said it before it became so big.. What was also interesting today was watching the presidential press briefing where the 2nd in charge of the governmental response team(obama appointed lady and who's name escapes me but appears every day). She clearly stated that they did not believe any of the chinese figures and went further to state that part of the reason for Europe and usa being so under prepared was because the data from China was totally inaccurate and false.

You have made reference to that when replying to me previously. The person who you think i may be might know what you are inferring,but unfortunately i don't. Reminds me of the bloke who saw two men in identical outfits. He asked one of them if they were gay. One of them then arrested him.

Now that i don't have much to do i was doing some reading and was interested in the meadowlands boss,Mr gural,comments on the recent indictments relating to the big doping scandel over in new york. The meadowlands and the jockey club had worked with a surveillance company then the FBI to gather evidence. When asked why the FBI was doing what the racing industry had been unable to do he said. "I think its simple. No one cared." All the racetrack owners in the country who said they cared about this didn't care".... "All it was,was lip service and industry participants knew,in order to clean it up would cost a lot of money. And that drug testing wasn't the answer. Racetrack owners had to know you had to do surveillance work,wire taps,all that stuff to catch these guys. Without them you were just giving lip service that you cared..as these guys were ahead of the testing."

It was a well judged drive by K Cameron. He drove the track well in each of his drives today . Maybe his experience driving on the coast a bit gave him an edge tactically over some of the other drivers today. It certainly was a track where confident drivers got the best results.

just been thinking punter that we don't need to bring personalities into it. You can support mcgrath and all the others and still recognise that no one is perfect. Even the best make mistakes. People should just own up to them and move on. There is so much less drama if they do that. Everyone is better off. But thats not the way it works it seems, and there are unnecessary consequences as a result. Just because someone points out they think someones actions were wrong does not mean they have a personal grudge. If however people start making things personal then everyone understandably resorts to that level.

If you have the right person then you would know no milkshaking. Over the years i have heard so many things about myself that were untrue. One of the bad ones was when every man and his dog was spreading the story i was the trainer under investigation by the spca who was on the front page of the local paper .That wasn't me. you would think people would get their facts right but no they don't. I've heard so many falsehoods. I have a thick skin. i don't worry as i know whats true.

Happy,would you rather them not do it at all?

Wouldn't know how to milkshake a horse so that's a strange claim,but i can see the irony of your comment. Did work for a trainer down south and he never milkshaked or used a vet either. You've got the wrong fella sunshine.

Not referring to you hunterthepunter, your mellow and at times humorous in comparison with some things I have read. Just look at the other site for an example of what I mean.

I can't help but think that the vitriol towards the riu by some is counter productive and is helping sink the ship carrying those they support. And they just can't see it.

Is this post a result of the Mcgrath runners being ordered to be scratched from tonights races as a result of a stable inspection?

Nothing whatsoever against the mcgrath stable. Always thought he was a good bloke and a very hard worker. His horses are very consistent and you know if you back a mcgrath runner they will be well prepared if they are at the races. He uses my favorite driver who i say time and again gives punters great confidence that he is there to win. Just mcgrath team drove in that race. To me that was wrong. And like ive said the price he has paid is unfair,but it was his actions that put him in that position.