the galah

Thats your opinion. Its not the opinion of someone who just happened to email me this morning saying it was the worst they had seen in a very long time. Hey personally i'm sure there have been worse,but for me i can't think of one that bad in the last 12 months. we all have an opinion based on what we see .They are just opinions.

harrison,you've summed it up very well. But i believe you havent placed enough importance to the perception of the punter. I accept,after reading your post,the horse and driver were there with the intent to win,which is the main thing. I do however think that for someone watching in say australia or say someone in nz who had only a casual interest in harness racing and did not realise the driver had only had 35 career drives,the perception would be one of doubt around intent. like i say, i think you have put your points well,i just wouldn't agree when you say it was a split second decision or that its hard to see which horses are doing what.If it was a split second decision,why wasn't she assessing how the race had panned out in the first 1400m before that split second decision.And there was only 6 others in the race after all and a thinking driver would have tactically assessed who was where doing what. But yes that will come with more experience and learning the skills required. Shes already shown horses do seem to run for her so she is lucky in that she has a natural talent. As to you saying.. I would assume that the trainer,employer or a mentor would go over the race afterwards and discuss her drive and point out tactical errors made. So i would point out,you said she is likely to make more mistakes, because someone she doesn't know has commented on her drive. so using that very same logic, the trainer,who points out the same tactical errors,who she has more reason to impress or value,must also by doing so,make her make more mistakes. so my point there is,on the scale of things,the argument that you make about social media comments is to me more an over emphasising of the importance of what is said on social media. As to whether i would like people making public comments,I can give an informed answer to that.I believe i can assess when something is warranted and when it is not,and i can tell when someone is making a personal attack and when they are just playing the ball.Like i say,this topic should be viewed with perspective along with judging peoples motives. In this case,the motive of the original post was to point out the drive,not the drivers ability was not to the standard a punter would expect.

sometimes i watch races and just see it different from others i suppose. although as i said,for tonights drive i spoke to 2 other people before posting. One said the drive was the worst case of a horse being pulled they had seen for a while,the other said,no it was most likely incompetence at the high level. personally,i wasn't sure myself which one it was.One was definitely applicable,whatever it was.I know everyone makes mistakes,especially those early in their career. But i am surprised at your comments. in my opinion i can't see how giving up a clear run on the 3 wide train that is progressing quickly and instead taking the option of going 3 back the fence behind horses that are stoppingwith 250m to run, is an option that could possibly be viable even one time out of ten let alone 9 times out of ten. Tactics like that aren't split second decisions either. The stipe report on the race is farcical to me.It didn't even ask the question.Mind you,thats what i expected. At the end of the day there were only probably several hundred people focusing on that drive. It was not like it was a horse in a race being watched by big numbers i suppose. Also,i note that people don't comment much on what happens in races much anymore on this site. Unless it is all positive. I didn't used to be like that. Very few threads at all recently. Its as if people would rather not go there. I seem the only one these days who reflects on both sides of the coin. I had always thought what happens in the the actual races,are the main part of the harness racing.

what do people think of the k denifistova drive on delightful chic in the last. I'm unsure whether the tactics used in the last 400m were just really really stupid,or as suggested to me by a couple of people who watched it,the horse was deliberately run into a pocket so as not to win.Maybe a junior driver race next week. who knows. Either way,surely its reasonable for punters to expect better,whatever the reason.

Often you read reports or media segments on things like that and they downplay just how significant they actually are for those involved. As to the horse iron heart,i would bet my last $ that its body will always bear the scars. If its grazed its knees, which it looked like it would have,it will forever have swelling around its knees. It may start off not too bad but as it ages its almost a given that it will get significant swelling there.

J dickie showed a lot of common sense standing himself down after the fall in my opinion.Personally i think there should be a mandatory stand down of an hour or so for drivers in incidents like that. I see the story on hrnz said of the telfer horses to fall,iron heart was the worse effected but then it said none were seriously hurt. Given its been reported b butcher suffered a concussion,its also a surprising the stipes report doesn't say that he has been stood down until a certain datehe just says a medical clearnacewill be required. Isn't there a mandatory stand down like other sports have for someonewho has a concussion?Thats unclear from the stipes report.

these days theres absolutely no point in backing on the tote if you see a top 2 favorite horse paying 50 cents or more on the tote in the minute or two before tote close. Just face reality and realise the tote odds virtually every time will end up reflecting,within 50cents the win dividends for the ff. It happens in every race. today the only 2 favorites in the first 8 races,not to be end up similar to the tote,were a couple of roughies backed in who ended up on ff paying a couple of $ more at the end.I guess the bookies didn't need to put that much on those couple to still make them a winning result for them. Obviousuly the tab have a system where they off load some of their ff hold into the tote pools,after the race starts so as to limit any potential losses,(potentially even making them winning results). If you think about it,if you happen to select a win mover who has dropped into first or second favorite,don't realistically waste your mioney and have a bet. Because in the long run you will only lose as at the closing tote or ff odds,you will not be getting realistic value for the horses chances. In a way ,by the tab doing that,they really are just snuffing out a lot of punter participation in their tote pools. And if you are actually backing a roughie that hasn't had any ff support near tote close,your best to wait until the last couple of minutes as thats when the bookies will push out the odds. so the moral of the story is its easy to see why tote pools and punter participation will continue to decline .

Its in the 2023 annual tab report under marketing rebate.in notes to the financial statements.

on a different tangent i see Tab nz pay entain a marketing rebate of $25 million if entain spend over $50 million on marketing in the first 3 years.things like bonus bets are marketing. Is that not just a way of saying they got more money up front from entain,but in reality they give that part back spread over the following 25 years. I see when entain took over they got about $850,000 in jackpots ,i assume from pools not struck and carried over. Wasn't the punter being shafted there.How come they were holding that much in the first place.

no,has it changed much since they took it over? And what do you think about the entain value?

Just looking at the above and the value of their shares have both halved since september 2023. Entain from 1158.50 to 648.20 and tabcorp from $1.10 to 46 cents yesterday. I wonder if there are any punters out there with the overseas shares. Who knows. Entain last year posted a loss of 936 million pounds,but hey they are going a bit better this year.Expecting just a small loss apparently. Uk and ireland wagering down,australia flat but expansion into good old brazil seeing significant increases. Tabcorp not much better with a loss of $1.367 billion(719 million pounds),although that seemed mostly because they revalued their existing assets. Wagering was down 5% for them. whats all that mean,well probably not much to the regular nz punter.

rreally. Du val was one of aucklands best known large scale residential property developers The ATC sold to the chinese who i had thought were going to use the land for a large scale residential property development. were you thinking they were going to turn it into one big market garden?

Thats assuming the price would have gone up in the last couple of years. Property supposed to have gone down instead. Du val the most recent example of how tricky a business property development can be in auckland.

Maybe. But you could also think that the ATC would have made a statement to that effect earlier so as to allay fears. Aren't penalty clauses a bit of a grey area. A prominent nz barrister specialising in commercial contracts on his website says''In general a clause that can be classified as a penalty is regarded as being unenforceable. Conversly a clause that represents a genuine liquidated damages clause is enforceable". Apparently it may come down to whether the contract provided a genuine pre estimate on the happening of a certain event or breach. if it did it may become enforceable. i'm no expert in commercial law but i suppose it depends on the type of agreement and whats in it. Its obviously a different kettle of fish than the original disastrous development. Didn't the ATC have sunset clauses for the apartments and could have saved themselves millions and millions but chose not to enforce them when the delays in construction happened,with people who had pre bought apartments off them.. Didn't they say it was the ATC'S leadership at the time who knowingly contributed to the financial ruin of the atc when there was a way to reduce the catastrophe. Thats what the only investigative journalist in the north,the lincoln farms man i think wrote one time. Anyway, "The interest rates have been brutal and are really cutting into how much money we will be left with." a quote from jamie mackinnon in last months guerin article. No mention of compensation for late payment in that article.

i see peter profit has a written a story today that the inside mail he's been given is the chinese property developer won't be paying the $90 million expected on time,in november. Sometimes his inside mail turns out to be wrong and i'm not a subscriber and only read his headlines,but the headline was" is the auckland trotting club stepping closer to the abyss." mick guerin wrote an article last month saying the ATC was paying $115,000 a week just in interest,so every month they wait they have about a half a million $ less to spend on their new training establishment. It already seems obvious the only way they will get a new training establishment is if HRNZ provide the extra funds. So,while who knows if peter profits information will turn put to be correct,but if he is.. Well,given HRNZ is currently throwing money at upper north island racing,is it not a given that if there is a delay in payment to the aucklnad club, it will be a given that even more funds will have to be diverted from south island clubs,owners,breeders,trainers,drivers. why is it they always say its a chinese property developer. Do they not file returns. The company that proceses the money,mount hope limited seems to be nz run with nz shareholders. The whole thing from the lack of media interest as to exactly who and how well funded the purchasers are,HRNZ's plans or lack thereof as relates to the ATC,the lack of transparency and leadership around how auckland issues will impact drag on the whole sports future,or morte precisely lack thereof. Lets hope peter profits inside mail is wrong as for anyone in the south island ,HRNZ has already seemingly attached itself,and every stakeholder in nz with them, to a sinking ship which may be going down a lot quicker than everyone thinks.

he wrote a nice story on a regular redcliffe patron a month ago. "Rest in peace thelma copeland". The redcliffe club named a race after her this month. That story just an illustration of how ranger is able to put into words and paint a picture of harness racing intertwining with every day peoples lives. People who provide the industry with content like that are few and far between.And their importance seeminngly undervalued in some quarters. Rangers connection to grass roots harness enthusiasts is a natural and instinctive thing ,sort of similar to nigel armstrong but in a different form.So few of those media type left anywhere so the industry should be promoting as much exposure as they can from them,while they can.

i like your stories like the redcliffe one. Redcliffe has their very own harness reporter ,duane ranger,father of leading auckland junior monika. duane ranger has developed into perhaps the best media harness story teller in australasia in my opinion. I know we have barrry lichter who is very good,but ranger seems to have free range of what and how long his articles are and by the end of reading them, you feel like you know the person they are talking about and some of their lifes journey. his latest couple of articles are about a trainer who had a recent redcliffe winner and who's first brush with harness racing was when his father used to work the door at harold park. Every time hondo gratten won tony turnbull would tip his father and it helped his family. The other m,ost recent article was about 2 mates who are redcliffe regulars who are going through on going cancer treatment and how they appreciate harness racing. I knew duane ranger earlier in life and used to play a little sport with him occasionally and he was always a great guy and has turned into a great story teller.Just keeps getting better. duane ranger harness racing is what you google to read his stories. He often has stories on ex new zealanders. phill keats was a recent one from memory.He was a junior driver who worked for dick prendegast back in the days along with roy purdon,john lischner and paul hadfield.

interesting concept.Good to see new ideas. Looking at it,it seems to be another form of the sires stakes type model.Just have to be queensland bred to be eligable. in nz, HRNZ are funding the selective group that race in the sires stakes series with a reported $600,000 this coming season. I had thought the increased funding was because the sires stakes weren't getting enough enrolments to put on the higher stakes,but who knows because hrnz like throwing money at the top end horses anyway. looking at how it works fro queensland,you have owners paying a registration fee of $700 for 2yo,$950 for 3yo,$1200 for 4 year old. But they do that a year or two before. has a few conditions and you don't get anything if your horse wins at aged 6 or over. so it seems the point of the scheme is encourage people to support horses bred in queensland only. hopefully it works for them,but nz doesn't have several states like australia. wouldn't it just be easier for hrnz to pay a higher winning stake to the owners of a horse at its first win each season. For nz i think it makes more sense to just redirect the extra funding they have recently handed out,which only a few benefit from,and instead spread the funding so many will benefit from. Even if its just for every horses first win,whatever the age.Just common sense i think to get the most positive impact.But we all know thats not how HRNZ thinks.

Your views expressed seem to be in line with the decision makers at HRNZ,especially the executive leadership. But no one,including him has ever claimed turnover to be a focus of the unhinged content,nor does he have the power to decide where industry funding goes. The fairest comparisons to focus on are the aspects of the industry he focuses on. no point over complicating things,simply ask yourself who does more to give exposure and promote recognition of canterbury owners,a cross section of trainers,breeders,race sponsors,volunteers,getting up close to the horses in the stables,etc,etc? strangley the answer for most would be unhinged,the man,with his wife,doing it with just their own resources and time. Not the multi million dollar funded entain or HRNZ Thats a real head scratcher if ever you had one ? To me hes like a social media influencer,but industry decision makers just ignore using him and limit his,and the industries exposure.. as to him being a syndicate manager or promoting a certain trainer.Why don't hrnz just sit down with him and work out how a formula relating to that, works for both.They do promote many different syndicators in the unhinged content.

have HRNZ put the unhinged content so its easily accessible on the HRNZ website an obvious start. I remember starting a similar thread a few years back with a few ideas of how to promote the sport. Others contributed with their ideas. But i think bit of a yarn is a place where people get to say what they think,but after a while those posting realise decision makers at the clubs and HRNZ aren't listening to what appears on websites like this. I've certainly noticed not anything i have ever said anyway. Thats what i think contributes to an underlying frustration of those posting,that you sense from reading peoples opinions that are posted on here. So you(westview) may well be interested in promoting the sport,but people who make the decisions for the clubs or hrnz just prefer to stay within the box. But anyway,you always seem genuine,so i think you deserve a genuine reply. So one idea is,ask yourself,what do clubs like ashburton or addington or others have. They have racecourses with road frontage that 10's of thousands of people drive past everyday. So why don't they use that road frontage to place 2 strategically placed big billboards with the photo of the finish of the main race for the month on one billboard,with the winners name , then the photo of the winning driver with a cup in his hand and the winning group of owners on the other billboard. Then change the photos everymonth with that months winners. So over the course of each month you would have hundreds of thousands of people driving past and looking at them.Its what people do,look at billboards with something different on. Just remove the pictures for a week at the end of each month so as to get the fresh attention when the next months winners appear or maybe have them outlined in a different clour each month . The business supplying the photos would have..their business name on the bottom and the race sponsor of the big race for each month on the top.Their must be a business that would jump at the chance of such highly viewed advertising. Its just a matter of getting approval from the local authority. Transport nz probably best advised as well.The speed limits where the racecourses are, seem ok for that type of placement.

I watched the friday night thing. Good viewing. The thing i found interesting was the interview with jamie mackinnon ,the head of the auckland club. now i will say i think hes a high achiever and has done a top job representing and pursuing whats best for auckland. Very single minded although the negative to that is its been reported some of his decisions have upset some who also have served the atc at times when it was well run. but its what he said in his interview that i found interesting. I'm assuming he was just saying what he thinks. He said amongst other things that, he had never felt the high level of comradery that exists at present,that so many positive things were happening in the indstry,that entain was doing a wonderful job,that people at the grass roots were thinking positive... i heard that and it reminded me of the conversation i had just this week with a small time trainer who has a broodmare. He was telling me how he had sold his broodmare overseas and he thought the horse he currently trains will be his last,that he had been talking to another trainer this week,a professional trainer who trains about 15,who was telling him 3 of his main owners who normally breed one each year had told him they won't be this year.i heard the same myself from someone else this week. i know what i heard is real. Mackinnon obviously believes the opposite. obviously people move in different circles. but it does prove the total disconnect that exists in this industry. Its mackinnons view of things that is the basis for decision making at the highest level. people will have to make up their own minds as to who lives in the real world.

I've said there is already a need right now with the current number of horses and that need will only grow.Its all about how unaffordable and scarce land and training facilities are currently. those 2 things are obviously related. its also about the flow on effect to owners and breeders of having an affordable complex available. The people they use to educate and train their horses could pass on the savings to them ,or the owners and breeders could tap into using the affordable facility themselves. thats why having an agistment part to any complex is important. For example they could charge a certain amount for agisting someones broodmare,with a % of that being a rebate that could be used for the cost of beeding. If not used,no rebate.Agistment costs should still be kept at affordable rates. The complex would be there to run at a small profit. the thing is. And isn't this obvious if you think about it. say you currently own a broodmare. Your thinking well i don't think i will breed my mare this year. Maybe you can't find anywhere affordable to graze her,(that is a real problem),maybe its other circumstances,maybe youv'e looked to give her away but can't find anyone who wants her(another real issue),whatever. so what do you think next...Well do i keep paying out or do i just put the broodmare down or try and sell her or maybe sell to china or whatever. The future of that mare is in real peril. chances of that mare not being around next year are not good. ive spoken to 3 people i know just in the last week whoare saying that and i've only spoken to 3 people in harness racing. This is a real problem. anyway,ask yourself this. would you get 1 more starter in this years nz if the race was worth $500,000 or a million$. pretty sure no you wouldn't. And I'm sure the aussie billionaire most likely to win the race needs it. the point there is HRNZ leadership seems so out of touch with their spending priorities that people are losing all hope. The grass roots sees the spending on the top end and inevitably asks themselves,why do they bother anymore.Then they drift away.Once they are gone,they are gone.

its easy enough to see the merit in what you say,but the thing is the albion park races yesterday ran for stakes of $6200 and $4800 and had 8 races with an average field size just over 10. cambridge ran 7 races for stakes averaging around $7300 with an average field size of 7.7. They chose to run 3 races with field sizes of 4,5 &6. Had they combined those races into 2 instead of 3,(they were for similar type graded horses)they could have had an average field size of just under 9. For some reason the head of HRNZ issued a statement saying running the extra races with starters of only 4 and 5 was a positive sign. so albion park ran 8 races worth total stakes of around $41,000 and new zealand ran 7 races for stakes of around $51,000. albion park would have generated higher turnover. so i agree with the sentiment of what your saying,the only thing is queensland seem to do it in a way that will be sustainable,whereas the worry and expectation in nz is,because the stakes currently paid are too high given the turnover of the cambridge races,the loss that they run at, will impact the stakes they have available to pay out in canterbury and as a result owners ,trainers and breeders in canterbury will drop out of the game because the returns are too low.And because less numbers will participate in canterbury as a result,turnovers will drop and the future stakes availabe to pay in the north island will need to be reduced in the future. so the answer is to reduce the stakes at cambridge meetings,provide a betting product with more starters per race(don't split fields to run 5 horse races),and adjust the ratings points penalties to reflect the level of stakes won. that seems reasonably obvious,but thats how things are currently being run.

all the frame already in place then. With employees already with the right knowledge thats a plus not a negative. i would imagine once set up it would only require oversight from those people and just a couple of employees for the likes of maintenance(including track)accounting. remember it would run to achieve a profit,not loss. This is nothing whatsoever like building an apartment complex like auckland. The only real similar things would be the auckland investment in their training complex-isn't it supposed to have been sold for $100 million,victorian harness racing who paid $3 million for land 20 years ago now valued at $100 million(isn't that the only asset they have which is saving them from insolvency),addington once had lots of land later sold off for good profits. Many racecing clubs the same. Tab for ever,keep coming up with the reasons to support the project.

Washdyke and motukarara tracks are on leased land. Also motukarara not a good choice anyway given how cold and wet it is during the colder months. ashburton and rangiora i thought are pretty much full up.Thats what they tell you if you ask. personally i think no current racecourse is suitable. It would need to be a new complex to promote harness racing and overseen by Hrnz. why would hrnz invest in it unless they had total control of it. also i don't know whether you are aware,but history has shown that there have been many disputes at dual coded racecourses,disputes also at country racecourses where people on committees look after their own best interests,etc,etc. Some have got rather ugly. I can think of at least half a dozen racecourses where that has happened in the last 20 years. current racecourses definitely a bad choice in my opinion.