the galah

I just looked at fridays meeting and i see pinseeker could have run in a $25,000 race this week,where the 4 highest rated horses are the big lebowski,jimmy james mcguire,pure courage and raging whitebait.So i guess they chose to put him in the methven cup instead of the much easier race on friday for a good stake. That still doesn't change the fact that horses who win 2, 3 or 4 races early in their career are still being unfairly penalised in the handicapping system.

When are they going to fix the handicapping system? Pinseeker should never have had to run in yesterdays methven cup,but the handicapping sytem really left connections with little choice if they want to race him. He had started 9 times for 4 wins prior and had his first start less than a year ago. theres something wrong with the handicapping system when a promising 4 win horse like him is forced to run against experienced open class horses so early in his career. Hes the type of horse that connections should have been able to target mid grade races at the cup meeting and run for good money against other horses with similar records. it was like the main race at addington 3 weeks ago. There the 3 win,9 start 3 year old betterthancash had to start in a r60 and faster race. Horses like the above should be able to win more races and more money before they have to race in the top grade. I had thought they were supposed to be changing the handicapping system. Wasn't that one of the recommendations of that horse utilisation group?HRNZ seem to be sitting on their hands and not making the needed changes that were recommended.

yes ,she thought about breaking half way down the straight,but then just dug in for the fight. She was bought just 7 weeks ago 14 august for $3,300 on gavel house. She's earned over $30,000 since. She had been a last start winner for gavin smith when sold ,although she had proved a headache for him at times and going by his comments on unhinged he was pleased to see her go. Smith did think she would make a nice cambridge horse and was suited to small tracks,but as horses can do sometimes,shes exceeded his expectations and proved she can win at addington on a high class night and then on the big methven track. i think a large part of the key is mark jones and his staff,get on well with mares and that having a fresh approach has seen rush wanting to give her best for them. Getting horses to try for you,especially trotters, when they are used to taking the easy way out is a worthy achievement from the jones stable . She will be on a hard mark now,but irrespective of what she may do going forward she has well and truly proved a good purchase. The jones stable has done that with the likes of bella button and lizzie richter in the last couple of seasons. i see ross mccutcheon owned a share in both bella button and rush

Yes,i got my imperials mixed up in that last post of mine. I had seen imperial monarch race earlier in the night when i posted that. Imperial monarch interestingly had 5 starts,2 as a 2yo and 3 as a 3yo, in nz for c mcdowell. is see within 12 months he has won 9 races from about 20 starts and is ruhnning in free for alls at melton.He ran against the likes of queen elida last night.Now he has proved to be a very good buy. I'd be very surprised if alan clarks imperial command gets anywhere near that. The thing is,if tabforever really thinks imperial command is worth $21,000,then how come the horse had only been able to win 1 race ,and 1 non tote(3 horse) penalty free 2yo race,from 48 starts. Mr clark i believe does things very different to most. Does he not have them in the cart as weanlings.His horses have always trotted nice so he knows how to shoe them,and he would have probably the best mannered yearlings in the cart you would see ,bar anyone,because of the work he has already done on them prior. But theres more to just judging whether that is an overall successful strategy based just on the success of a couple of horses,which i agree he has trained.But there are others you will not have heard of. Now he won'r be alone in that,and i'm not knocking him,i'm just saying i don't have to agree with his strategy. After all,had alan clark started training the fiery ginga when he was 4 instead of 1,then i'm sure he would have still been a top horse and highly likely raced longer.People forget that. But i suppose when you have 5 new yearlings every year to train then you need to find out quick if they can go otherwise next thing you have 25 horses in 5 years time.each to their own like i often say.

reading that,I probably didn't word that part quite right. I have been trying to put across my opinion that There being 3 parts to my saying he was over valued at $21,000. firstly because i think the prospective buyers have overestimated they can improve imperial monarch now hes no longer trained and driven by mr clark,secondly because of the longevity factor which i think is very important and thridly based on its race record. I had thought i had inferred the a clark factor when i said earlier ,people underestimate mr clarks abilty in training young horses. Thats what i have been trying to say anyway.

gee you know your alan clark horses.Nice work. and yes you have pointed out some with real longevity. i was aware of the likes of imperial whiz and armed guard.they have gone on to be very good money spinners. constar i know was a good young trotter and of its 7 wins 6 came as a 2 year old. i'm aware he trained some of the others,although theres a couple you've mentioned that i've never heard of. but i still believe in what i have said. And i'm aware of quite a few that you probably have never heard of, that support my way of thinking. my posts on this thread have been about horse values. I've mentioned about 5 horses on this topic. i still think all the people who bid substanial amounts for imperial monarch,(and there were quite a few bidding on him),over valued him. as i say, $21,000 for a horse who had 1 non tote and 1 raceday win out of 48 starts seems excessive. Also ,have you not worked out that i'm the one not undervaluing mr clark as a trainer. And i'm the one who thinks the people who think they can improve imperial monarch simply because mr clark no longer trains it,are misjudging things.

there was some really talented horses racing last night. the racing was very good to watch. The turnovers seemed just average with some races being ok and other not so good. The poorer turnover races were the ones that were timed to start within 3 minutes of an australian gallops or an australian trots race. Those nz races that did that tended to get only 50-60% in turnover compared with the ones that didn't. again it just indicated timeslots and pre race coverage so vital for turnover.Harness nz should always try and have timeslots that follow greyhound races as the australian greyhounds nearly always start either on time,or as soon as the race that preceded them has finished,thus creating more lead in coverage time for the race after them. Who allocates the timeslots anyway because in their hands is the fate of the turnovers.Why doesn't hrnz ever talk about that. as to the racing. I thought stella rouge was a standout winner. maybe thats because i backed it,but in all its trails it looks to have special tyalent and the only query for me was how it would have handled its very hard first race a few months ago. i'm unsure what amanda telfer said about it pre race,but i was surprised it ended up going out to $9 on ff. it had run below par first up,but it was very noticeable that night,if you looked at the replay,that it had a really bad discharge from its nose amd clearly wouldn't have been feeling 100%. stella rouge did have a bit of luck as a result of some team driving by the dunn team that back fired. Allets(dunn trained) was travelling very easily in front,but blair orange was immediately looking for a trail as soon as he saw the stablemate improving some way back.So allets went well also. then marketplace defied the odds and came from last to win. You don't see that much,although it was another race where the team driving for the dunns seemed to backfire.The dunn trained Malakai was having an easy time in front and looked to be in with a top chance,but then b orange kicked up and malakai elected to trail i guess because he saw the john dunn caught wide. Malakai,the horse then seemed to get the pricker with being restrained and just said stuff you by the looks of it. Then marketplace just flew home. Lets hope r todd can keep this horse in top form as he sure is fast and r todd is doing a top job with him.C ferguson seems to have the touch when it comes to driving that horse. also the win of rush showed again what a top trainer mark jones is.I think hes one of the best myself. sam ottley driving great as always. The interesting thing about rush is when he won for gavin smith,unhinged would interview mr smith and he would say that he didn't like the horse and that he was always thinking about sacking it. Maybe the horse knew that,and likes being in its new stable. Having said that rush always used to break for the trainer it had before smith.Anyway mark jones team have it in career best form.

seems the oamaru and waikouaiti trainers have been stopped by the floods from getting to todays meeting. And several prominant drivers also missing. when i saw the floods were effecting waikouaiti early last night,i thought i should put some money on a couple of races where the favorites from the effected areas were likely to be scratched as i would be getting some inflated odds. Unfortunately my tab couldn't accomodate that after backing a couple of losers at addington,but there must be some that did get on early.

good for you for sticking up for mr clark. But the" lay off him" is just a ridiculous comment from you. Who are you saying that to anyway? Why are you so sensitive when it comes to people commenting about something that is real. Everyone knows Mr clark concentrates a lot of his time on getting young trotters going,then he races them a lot.. I know i have never knocked him for doing what is his area of expertise. But,i have every rite to express an opinion that racing a young horse so much early in its life may have an impact on its longevity as it gets older.That opinion is not about mr clark,hes just the most obvious example. How about you go read what i said in this thread anyway. I will repeat it just for you. TAb forever if you had not put" lay off him",then fair enough,but wth that comment you seem to have lost perspective of what has been said.

imperial command has gone to australia. gee they must be keen on him as $21,000 & cost of flight & govt costs & don't they have a levy for nz horses imposed by hra? i still find it hard to believe someone paid so much for him.I will keep an eye on how he goes in australia. theres another ex a clark horse on gavel house currently. The better performed night watch who has done a nice job for brad williamson. Interestingly b williamson has been very honest and said the horse has bled in the past and is normally treated for that.Night watch not given as tough a preparation as imperial command when younger,although still did race a lot early for mr clark. K tomlinson did say a couple of months ago she felt night watch was best with its races spaced a bit instead of backing up one week after another. I would say night watches owners will be hoping the buyers of imperial command get involved in bidding on this one as well.

The 16 year old left no champs but did have some handy lower grade horses from limited opportunities as a sire. now off to china. I wonder what they pay for a horse like that.Maybe around $30,000? escape artist a handy 3 year old colt that b purdon trained going as well so you would think that price would have been close for him. the thing i find odd about horses going to china for racing is,if their prime purpose is racing,why buy non racehorses. For example why not buy a filly of racing age and race it then breed from it. instead they just buy mares in foal. Doesn't that seem a bit odd if they really are buying racing stock?Are there some type of rules in china that are different? No one seems to know much and just says the same thing that they are for racing,even though they won't end up racing.Beats me.

So dreams are free resumes tomorrow in the last at wyndham. hes had the two trials,in both he showed that he wants to run wide in a straight line. Hes no doubt a classy horse ability wise and is paying only $1.50 on ff tomorrow and may win,but him having to be steered hard on one rein i think could be a worry. Maybe he may just go to the front and the other drivers just conceed early,but if they actually try and beat him then who knows.Or maybe they may treat him with something to ease any possible pain which will help.

i see peter profit has a headline whch says the ATC has lost its appeal in the above case. Hes reporting the ATC now can add about another half million to their debt..still they lucky they have HRNZ as their benefactor..Whats another half million amongst friends? I'm not a subscriber to peter profit,but have just read the original decision of the employment tribunal and it sure seemed like the ATC tried to really screw mr payne over. i'll sumarise the original long decision. Payne ran the ATC tab from 2005 and originally was paid a base salary and commission based on a formula that seemingly only the fella working for the ATC at the time understood,payne and and even subsequent ATC employees seemed confused about the 2005 formula for the commission. So when payne got paid,he just took their word he was being paid the right amount. seems it was an unsigned agreement as well. Then in 2013 the ATC negotiated with the NZ TAB,an increase in % of commision they receive from 2.5% to 4% of turnover.And they went to payne and the atc and payne signed an agreement that payne was to get half of any commission once $90,000 turnover a week was reached.That was to be paid quarterly. Well the atc tab turnover kept increasing and around 2017 the ATC decided the current agreement with payne was seeing him get too much,so they tried to change it but he didn't agree. so anyway fast forward to the hearing and the ATC was sticking with ,they would be only paying payne based on the unsigned agreed 2005 formula and not the updated, signed in 2013 formula, and that they had told payne that and that he had accepted that,which he disputed. There was no formal agreement saying he had agreed to that with the atc and the tribunal ended up believing payne,which sort of seems logical as why would payne have agreed to a massive pay cut.. so the tribunal found the ATC owed payne lots. Thats a very brief summary of what i think the case was about. At the end of the day,the ATC in more debt and they must have spent a fortune on the whole legal process only to lose. Maybe that was there strategy,make payne give up because of the cost. Whatever the ATC strategy,They sure look stupid again.

when you say g dixon mucks around with too many slow ones at redcliffe,to me thats just an indication of how much he enjoys the horses,the people and the industry as a whole,no matter what the level.And the same must apply to his owners as they must be happy paying the bills. Also by him having a cross section of all levels of horses it indicates that he is making use of and being kind to the horses being bred instead of just sacking them because they may just be a redcliffe horse. Also it seems your programming of races sees many of the redcliffe lower grades often racing at albion park at different stages of their careers. Bev the goat was a horse i followed at a couple of stages. It went some handy races here and they even tried taking it to manawatu to get a win,but it didn't quite manage it.Wouldn't surprise me if it turned into a handy earner over there.Her trainer in nz,dave mcgown has a far better strike rate with his trotters than pacers. In the last 5 years i see hes had about 170 starts with pacers for 3 wins and 29 placings. You have to consider that would mostly be in fields with small numbers starting.he seems to focus more on his trotters and does well with them.

Interesting you talking about grant dixon. Very early on you labelled Leap to fame as potentially the best in australia,i think it was when he was an early 3 year old and before he got on his nationwide roll.Because of that we have always followed him since. My wife always makes a point of watching all his races and she always knocks on the bedroom wall to let me know when hes running when i'm watching something in the lounge. we've come to admire the horse,his great looks and the outstanding way he covers the ground and his will to win and racing style. And we admire him and grant dixon for other reasons as well. For a start the Dixons train many horses of differing talents and you see them racing at mid week redcliffe meetings as well as albion park. To me they and the horse are relateable to your everyday harness racing enthusiast. also when you look at him racing he doesn't have the help of 3 or 4 other drivers driving from the same stable helping him out tactically.The race we discussed earlier was an example of that happening,but it doesn't apply to Leap to fame. also,i think if you watch all the horses trained by G Dixon,you can tell they don't run with any special performance enhancers to assist them,and thats part of the reason everyone who follows Leap to fame enjoys watching every one of his wins.Because he can overcome the odds.I hope his owners ,the seymours,keep him racing for a few seasons more and that he stays sound and healthy. i think leap to fame and just believe, should be what this years nz cup week should be promoted around. The slot races may be interesting for some,but getting a chance to watch Leap to fame in the flesh is an opportunity that only happens rarely.

All i can say is put the race video up and let people make up their own minds. The video speaks for itself. Have you even watched the video? At the time i happened to tune in just before they started and picked that horse g dixon drove that went 3 back the fence,i had no money on it,then when he did that move to give the equal favorite sitting behind him the perfect run and him no chance,i immediately thought what on earth is g dixon doing,why on earth would he do that. so i looked at the tab website while the race was on to see who it was he had gifted the perfect run to, at his own expense,and it turned out it was the horse in different colours driven by his wife that he also trained. Like i say gammalite,if you put up the video it speaks for itself. I don't know how to do that ,otherwise i would. I'll take your word that hes a great bloke.You know him . But if you want punters to support the industry, they have to think everythings on the level. As to who the owners were. Well now you have said that i had a look and its no other than the owners of leap to fame. yes i did read your post about the slot races,but nothing about slot races ever sinks into my brain as i have no interest in those races whatsoever until the same week they are run,when i look at the field. I honestly can't even tell you what age of horse the nz slot races are for.I know ones a trot and ones a pace.

i think aussie is more dodgy than nz by far. i think one of the most obvious cases of team driving i had seen in recent months, was at albion park by grant dixon/trista dixon on 20 july in a group 2 race worth $207,000.race 5. I don't know who solid earth properies are,they owned both the horses involved,but clearly grant dixon drove his horse to advantage its stablemate.Cheer leader and free thinker were the horses involved. The amazing thing was the stipes didn't even question grant dixon. All i can think of is he and solid earth properties are too big a names and get a free pass ,the stipes in queensland are weak and many punters would have been saying,well there you go,what do i tell ya. . You would have seen it gammalite so i'm sure you know what i mean. Grant dixon,on a $12 shot, landed in the 1/1 on the back of the third favorite,who was racing outside the leader. That parked horse was being driven by trent dawson who's style is to not give up the death seat. Dixon at the mile knew his stablemate and equal favorite was on his back,so he just went 3 back the fence and gave up any chance he had by following a roughie in the trail.Trista dixon just took his place,got the perfect run and just got the win.Meanwhile grant dixon finished full of running. Do the stipes over there run a bit scared of upsetting the apple cart sometimes?

special effects is a hard one to follow.Korbyn newman has done very well with him. the horse always showed ability for james stormont but broke virtually every start.It is by father patrick and they seem to be funny horses. the beach trainers seem to do well with them but a lot seem very unpredictable and inconsistent. Funny thing is they go well when young horses but often seem to get worse with practice as they get older. James stormont always used to chase the field after losing a lot of ground which i think bnever helped the horse when he had it. I think thats one of the worst things any driver can do,break,be 20 lengths last and still try and win. It must be hard on the lungs and the mental side for the horse when that happens. Bob cameron very rarely used to chase,even if he settled 10 lengths last.

C Ferguson is one of those trainers who focuses on his udr. He won't line them up unless he thinks they are a good winning chance.Good for punters but southland needs more horses at the races and for example c ferguson has started horses 52 times this year for 16 wins and henderson hunter has started 121 times for 3 wins. C ferguson would train 2 to 3x the numbers i would think.The point i make is c ferguson horses chances are always to be respected any time he lines one up,but in southland Henderson Hunter contibutes just as much ,if not more, with his smaller team. Tact macloud ,being by sweet lou ,i think would be found out in the nz cup if leap to fame decides to run say 3.53 or even faster like he could. Maybe tact macloud could place if they only went 3.58. Maybe if he got 3 back the fence in 3.56 he can place,but the sweet lous's staying ability seems to be found out in fast run races over longer distances in my opinion. Then again maybe he is an exception and not having raced much early on and not being a bit burnt out early,must help in that respect. i hope you got plenty on your AFL team. sounds like you had a great time enjoying the final.

It was a good nights viewing on friday ight lights. Wag start was impressive. 15 lengths is a long way. I see driver m hurrell said he didn't even have to pull the ear plugs. he did the same last year fresh up winning by 10 lengths in about the same time and never pulled the ear plugs then either.He did go good for another couple of starts after that last year,but then wasn't quite as good thereafter, even though he ran some nice races. Will last nights fast time effect him going forward?sweet lous are very good sprinters and race well fresh. as tab forever has pointed out ,they ran a mile in 1.54.7 in the non win race at auckland. Imagine taking what you think was a nice non win horse to auckland and having to run that time first up. You can see why many just stick to racing at cambridge instead of auckland. talking about auckland. The last 4 races had 5,6,6,6 starters and the turnovers were very poor on those races. The nz win pools for each was between 3-4,000. Some will say,its about keeping alexandra park going,and just ignore the losses that hrnz generate.how long can they keep doing that?. Even the addington tote nz tab turnovers weren't anything to write home about. The main race was ok and the biggest with just over $12,000. Looking at the tabcorp win pools only. Gore on thursday had more in total than addington,even with addington having an extra race. the biggest pool with the nz tab and tabcorp this week was the 0-1 win trot at gore that had the power failure beforehand. Amazing how many punters in australia just bet on the next race to go. They kept putting the gore race back,but it kept popping up as the next race to go and both the nz tab and tabcorp pools kept getting higher. I saw major moth win the kilmore cup quite easily. Fancy sky racing not even giving the kilmore cup any pre race coverage on either sky channel and instead only showing the last round. Instead they kept showing some 0-1 win gallops race at the sunshine coast that was running a few minutes late. Kilmore started on time but got a raw deal.

Does he still live in fendalton,on christchurch's most expensive street,where he has one of the flashest houses? Hes come a long way from that caravan.

I guess when you say "some believe cambridge/north island racing should be stopped because canterbury deserve it more", is reference to something i posted. I'm not sure how many times i have to say it,but once more i have never said that about cambridge or north island harness racing. I have given my thoughts on possible pathways to ensure north island harness racing continues,so thats the opposite of what you have stated above.I have questioned the wisdom of HRNZ planning to invest so much money in racing at alexandra park when the club still owes the bank $80 million. i have said i believe canterbury harness racing is being taken for granted and will pay the price of hrnz's policy of over funding north island harness racing at canterburys expense,and gave an example of a prudent investment hrnz could make in canterbury using a significant portion of the money they have from the forbury sale. But really i'm not sure why you have extrapolated that out to infer what you say i said. I have pointed out that if you have a top horse,you get several chances each season to run in heavily subsidised races at the top end. If you have a top 2 year old that becomes a top 3 yo,then 4yo then so on,he may well run in 30 or 40 such races. Of course HRNZ should ensure the stakes are good,but i have suggested they have gone too far and that an inevitable cash flow crisis for the whole industry will occur, if they continue such policies. Ask yourself this. If HRNZ really do have so much extra money just sitting around,(which i find hard to believe),to put into stakes at the high end,or into auckland,then why don't they reward the clubs that run at a profit and generate the stakes for the top end. for example,why not say to clubs like methven,banks peninsula,geraldiine and rangiora..How about you get together. We appreciciate the work you do so we have decided to take 10% of the stakes directed at the top end races and we want you to use that money to have 2 higher stake days in say march.You ,the clubs can work out how the money is to be distributed on the day,but the guidelines are to be the money should be relatively spread across all races for the grade of horses catered for throughout the season.I would imagine that those clubs could come up with a finals day and a consolation day for horses that didn't make the finals fields.They could have conditions like you have to had started 5 or 6 times on canterbury or west coast grass tracks in that season and that group or listed winners or placegetters are excluded. That concept would not be anything to do with winter rewards type races which must remain then they could do the same,to a lesser degree funded,for southland/otago and central districts. they could call it money making march or whatever. The inclusiveness of such a policy would substantially lessen the criticism HRNZ get around favoritism. But everything coming out of hrnz indicates they are blinkered and unrealistic and i would guess in say 5 years will be proven to have been fiscally irresponsible.

that should have read ..planned for auckland next year.

You seem to have missed the consistency in the point that i make. That is HRNZ need to be fiscally responsible in their spending,irrespective of whether the races are for the elite or the battlers at cambridge. I have criticised both the decision to put unsustainable $ into stakes for slot races and into the tuesday cambridge meetings. I have said i think the tueday race meetings are a good idea,but the $8,000 stakes they pay at cambridge are too high. so to me you've missed that point going by your above post. To me,you want everyone to race for good money and for everyone to be able to sustain their involvement in the industry.Thats fair enough,but i don't believe its possible to have stakes at the level you suggest they should. I'm pointing out that money doesn't grow on trees and there is only so much of it to go around and that if you overspend on one thing then someone else will miss out. i've never heard brodie say they should dogmeat any horses,as you have said he has. I have heard him question why some horses are persevered with given the costs and returns for some who aren't earning.To be honest,i think thats the way 90% of trainers operate with the horses they train and discard now days.Believe it or not,thats not the way i see things,but i've come realise my approach has been unrealistic. Then you said i said the slot holders were the elite. ...Thats not something i've commented on. I have no idea who most of the people that are slot holders are,nor do i care. I'm talking about the connections of the horses involved. The horses/ owners and trainers of them who line up in those races are the elite.Surely you must realise that HRNZ have already pumped huge extra money into the stakes for many other races that they will have oppotunity to run in before the end of the year and also into the bonuses they have earnt that hrnz gave them along the way. And no,neither i nor brodie have ever said we are against slot races. You can say it as much as you like,but i have never said that nor have i read where brodie has. What we both have said is the slot races are supposed to be self funding and thats what they should be. It should not be for HRNZ to divert stakes into them. again i say,hrnz may act like they have a bottemless pit of money when it comes to the elite races,but they don't when it comes to the average races. As to nz gallops having them soon. They already have them planned for riccarton next year.

i agree . Harness racing is on a pathway of self inflicted decline. HRNZ decision to inject the extra cash into the top end is yet another example of how they window dress with a facade. HRNZ have a deliberate policy,enabled by harness reporting media,of rewarding the elite,the highly visible. Harness racing used to be like a pyramid,built on a solid base of participants with the money trickling down from the top to the bottom at a rate that was enough to see each layer of the pyramid survive and each layer of the pyramid also felt there was a chance of them getting higher on the pyramid and the greater rewards that went with that. That basic design of the pyramid has gone out the window and its inevitable that the current design is unsastainable. So brodie and myself,with our comments,are pointing out the above. Not because we don't want those at the top end to be rewarded,but because we don't want those at the top end to be rewarded at the expense of the viability of the industry as a whole.