the galah

I liked evangalist in that race and i thought it ran up to its form. Miss o'reilly went back early and as a result the zac butcher driven jazelle,who drew outside her and who hadn't gone forward either,but hadn't gone back to the same extent,ended up getting in front of her.As a result of that,Evangalist never looked close enough to win.In hindsight,the difference between winning and running 4th was what happened in the first 100m.

I think trainers often put gear on to solve an issue that could be solved with more time and patience.In the short term may be better,but long term maybe not.I suppose trainers that do that are mindful of how much an owner is paying them,and want quick results. Ken barron is a trainer who has little gear on his horses most of the time and they are very well behaved.

But the numbers from nelson and ashburton don't support your comments. nelson had 11 races with good size fields and ashburton has the same. And as i have said before,turnovers are high at this time of year,especially on the average meetings you refer to.Its also the meetings which mostly have the lower class horses at this time of year that get the big crowds.

So whats stopping anyone having a holiday in nelson or blenheim? No ones forcing anyone to come back to ashburton. Its the only meeting in canterbury in a 3 week period.

But in this case no one has picked on Tim Williams. Everyone knows hes a very talented driver,but hes not infallible. His drive in this case is just one of those that was an error in judgment and was to a degree that deserved a penalty. 3 days suspension is nothing major,but if anything this case does tend to highlight how harsh some of the whip rules penalties are. Both type of rules are based on perception and it could be argued that the rule williams transgressed, creates a worse perception than those being charged under the whip rule.Did his penalty reflect that or are the whip rules penalties too harsh.

To be fair to the trio,at least they could see that had williams just pulled out and given his horse a clear run,it probably wins. Just an obvious tactical error that he admitted and was dealt with fairly.I'm sure if williams felt he should be defending the charge he would have,but he didn't because he knew he got it wrong.Thats the way things should work.

that should read "doesn't change what any person posting...is thinking at the time they make a post. I guess sometimes,after posting something,then reading the subsequent replies,a posters view or knowledge around the subject may change a little. probably not that often,but sometimes.

I pretty much agree with what you have said on this thread,and he does appear to have played the man a bit and not the ball,but to say 'its people like you who take pot shots at people you don't like for no reason that actually drive the young people we have in the game out the door". Well i think thats a bit over the top. In this day and age of social media and everything that goes with it in as far as everyone commenting on whatever or whoever they like or dislike,then surely by the time someone has reached the status of being a junior driver,they must know they will be exposed to comments that could be viewed both positive and negative,and which they may not agree with or like. Surely dealing with social media would be part of what junior drivers are taught when they do their in classroom learning before they get a licence. Besides life experiences, even if they are younger ,must have exposed them to that. Someone commenting as forbury has in reality has opened discussion around a subject that some may have been unaware of the reasons for the change. You and another junior driver have given explanations which have expanded the knowledge of those reading this thread around this topic. I guess the point i make is how much should it really matter what forbury or i or anyone else who comments thinks. Its your life,you making the most of any opportunity that presents itself. Besides i always think its does no harm to know what people may be thinking,irrespective of whether it is positive or not or whether they need enlightening so as to further understand a topic that may be discussed.To me it matters not whether people use a non de plume or a real name. Obviously using your real name when you post places more weight to a topic like this,but using a real name or not doesn't change what any person posting thinks.

Don't know why you ask that. The number of race starts was the total combined number for every horse that started in those countries over the 6 year time frame. So on average those countries had that type of race death per 27202 starts. Even if you were to include the whole 506 starts the telfer horses had last year,the telfer stable had 53 times higher rate of race deaths than the whole of norway and sweden averaged.. Someone asked for the stats. Well they just prove what some of us have been saying.

I have done a bit of goggling.Theres many studies that you can read the results of. First you had to define what it was. -sudden athletic death-defined as comprising all fatalities in which there is acute collapse and death in a healthy horse during or immediately after exercise.. That seems to fit what happened to the telfers. As relates to racetrack incidences of sudden athletic death. an australian study last year found there was 1-3 deaths per 10,000 starts. A californian study found 1 per 9,000 starts or 1 per 160,000 training days. in norway and sweden in 6 years from 2014-1019 they had a total of 30 sudden athletic horse deaths from pulmonary or cardiac causes. That was from 816,085 race starts. And here in NZ we had the telfer stable have 3 deaths from not much over 100 starts in the mentioned timeframe. How anyone could say what happened with the telfer stable is not unusual defies common sense. As to the RIB's findings. One study of sudden athletic horse deaths involving 6 countries and different racing jurisdictions found that pathologists were only able to make a definitive diagnosis in 53% of cases.25% were presumed and 22% unknown. As to treatments being to blame,one study concluded no one can say for certain as yet. Some drugs were believed to be factors,as evidenced by certain trainers having a run of deaths, and treating their horses the same,but their was no definitive proof as yet. Just suggestions their is a link. So,why should we believe the RIB's vets,when other expert equine pathologists and researchers have found what i have mentioned above.

Well what was that stable known to do.I aren't suggesting it was anything illegal, as it wasn't at the time.

thats fair enough although you did say what i was saying was subjective BS. I am very,very confident that if someone was to produce the data,if they kept it,what i am saying about the circumstances being a very rare occurrence(prior to telfers) would be correct. I think you already knew that when you said it was BS. I can remember being on course when inky lord dropped dead at the end of the cup trial. He died of a ruptured aorta. We know what the most likely contributory factor to that was,but it was legal within a certain timeframe at the time. Still was that fair on the horse? I also recall watching a horse have a heart attack about 30 years ago in track work. But i have no recollection of ever being on track and witnessing a horse collapse and die during a race. No doubt it may have happened,but it tends to be something that you don't forget seeing and i used to go to the races most weeks. I'm not talking about horse deaths as a result of injury.That is not related to how these horses die. Anyway,i hope the spotlight being shone on these deaths leads to greater thought being given to any horses health and well being. The telfer stable was our leading stable last year,and well done to them for that. They have very high standards,but they must already realise this type of thing was not a good look for them or harness racing.

Do you follow harness racing. I had thought so ,but maybe not if your suggesting that on track horse deaths are a common occurence. You do realise that a horse that dies on track gets a mention in the stipes report.People also see it. But to give you a chance to prove your point,and to prove that it is not you that is really talking BS,name a couple. I can think of a couple of others in the last 2 years. Its a very,very rare occurence,but hey prove me wrong and supply me some names. Maybe gammalite or chief could help you out with some names?

Your a funny man chief. Did you really think anyone thought an official investigation would openly conclude anything different. Of course they should have investigated,but an investigation was only ever going achieve "we will be watching you more closely in the future". You can go on sticking your head who knows where,but like i said at the time... In a 4 month period,between may and september last year,they lined up just the 34 horses,and 3 died. Also one was supposed to have pulled up with a hock fracture. So you do the maths. 1 in every 10 they took to the races in that 4 month timeframe died,3 in identical collapsing circumstances. As to archie butterfly,i'm not a subscriber to his website,although i believe he also referenced the death of another horse that went to aussie. One last thing. Can you give me the name of any vet who thinks that the stats i have referred to are a sign of "nothing to see".Vets i thought are there to care for the horses in times of need.

Believe what you want to believe chief.I can't work out why some people can't believe what i say. To prove the point I had thought you could give me a name of any horse running at any up coming nz harness meeting,and you could watch how it works. But then i already did that about 6 months ago when discussing this topic previously. At the time i posted the algorithms also effected me,and i was going to back 3 horses, watch the dividends drop. I did so,they dropped immediately as i predicted. And what was the response i got from you chief and a couple of other posters,well the same as what you have suggested above.So i'm not going to do that again. Oh well,i know whats true and what isn't as far as this goes. You may find it hard to believe chief,,i'm not sure why though.

Heres an example of one of the tab's policies. The other day i spoke to someone who had got annoyed at how placing $20 bets on ff on an account was impacting the ff dividends ,and as always subsequently the tote dividends. So in one race they placed every minute for 5 minutes,1 $20 win bet on a horse that they did not give any chance but was 3rd favorite. Each time after the bet was placed,it was then cashed out the bet prior to placing the next bet. The ff dividend of that horse dropped from $7 to $6 to $5.50 to $5 to $4.50. All within the 5 minutes which was about quarter of an hour before start time. This is because of the algorithms they have set up on the account which monitor its bets,and slashes the odds on any bet placed.. So there was no money whatsoever placed on the horse,because each bet was cashed out. Yet the price dropped. The horse i believe started around $5 ff,and $5 on the tote because people had assumed it was a real win mover. Of note the commentator said that the money had really come for that runner,which while understandable, is a comment often made by trackside presenters and commentators,but in reality it was all an illusion.

No horse fell over at the start. One did pre start and was scr..I thought it goes without saying that a horse that doesn't start, does not have a driver that participates in the race.So no sure what you mean and besides there was no connection whatsoever anyway. i meant the driver who i see said he felt the favorite,and obvious horse to beat, would not take him to the passing lane and also said his horse was pacing roughly,which is hard to pick up if you watch the video.

Actually just looked at the race again and there was an unusual drive in the race from the horse trained at the same stable,which really set virillo up for the win.Interesting to watch who he was focused on most of the home straight. Don't think anything in it myself,but an interesting watch.

i like the fact you stuck your head out pre race,and it winning does make one smile. I didn't see that coming and personally had it rated to run a clear last myself,so can see why you started the thread. As to the track. Its the same as every other year,so we know what to expect beforehand. Blair orange driving his 2500 winner was good to see,just a shame boudica just got nutted late in the cup.

I thought you were on the money pre race,as i couldn't see why vrillo would open paying only $3 given its form. But in hindsight i guess it never pays to write off anything the wigg sisters drive in the amateur races. Horses just seem to go better when they drive them.

I ofren wonder why ,if the crowds don't come to see the top horses race,then why aren't the top horses taken to the christmas crowds. I'm not talking about racing. Wouldn't it be great to have christmas crowds experience watching the likes of Muscle Mountain or sundee's muscle parading and having a quiet run around,then sprinting up the straight on the grass track say 5 minutes before start time of the main trot race at the latest rangiora meeting. Or have Self assured do the same at the latest motukararai meeting.Then the horses could walk back up the straight close to the crowd before leaving the track. The horses connections could also be driven up the straight in some type of flash car with the top down while Matt cross gives a run down of their achievements and earnings. These horses only live 20 minutes down the road from these tracks and their connections no doubt like to show off their champ. Never seems to happen,not sure why. I remember derek jones doing a tour of pubs with blossom lady after she retired. One pub patron told me the horse even went into the local bar,although never saw that in person.

I don't have facebook but can get some of their content if i google their name. The thing i can't work out is why is it not part of whats available on the HRNZ website. Its unique and provides content that's interesting and accentuates all the positives harness racing to offer. Its a bit like all those reality tv programmes that my wife watches,but about something i really enjoy. I do hope HRNZ make it available through their website as so many don't get facebook or are aware of what they are missing.

I think miss wigg may live down in canterbury these days brodie. She has an association with the n edge stable i think.A welcome edition to canterbury training ranks and a very good amateur driver.

We will have to agree to disagree. But people numbers that turn up to aucklands christmas meeting to watch the races which cater for the good horses are just a drop in the ocean when compared to christmas race meetings like oamakau,motukara,westport,nelson,gore,etc. And what do these christmas race meetings all have in common... They all cater for the lower grade horses ,with a country cup race. And its turnover from these very meetings that provides some of the income to provide the bigger stakes for the higher grade,low number horse races. So if your going to hit the incomes of those that provide the horses for these lower grade meetings at this time of year,by cancelling their bread and butter meetings where they earn the money to keep going ,as they have in may and as they have in southland, then don't have the bean counters at hrnz patronise those people with their double standards of what justifies races to be run or not.

True,it always helps to have context of how things have come to be,and where you are heading. But decisions need to be based not only on good intentions,but reality.