Walt

Disappointed to see your stance Chief that just keeps getting weaker. You've now resorted to ridiculing those with a different perspective than your own as if you were addressing a Woke Green Party Tree Huggers Convention. I'm a betting man and would wager all contributors to this thread have spent enough time around horses to understand their natures both good and not so good and the practicalities of a large number of ex racehorses. There just aren't enough lush back paddocks, pony clubs, riding for the disabled, people with a lot of extra time to call on and of course, deep pockets. That however is absolutely no excuse for reprehensible and inhumane treatment of any animal, but even more so if we are talking about an intelligent, sensitive and well mannered horse. The HERO program in Canterbury does magnificent work with ex race horses but even they have to draw the line with which horses that enter their program. I've seen hundreds of horses meet their maker over the years. Two via my own hand. The importance of "humane euthanasia" is not lost on me. If your top priority is what's expedient for you, then in my view you should find another interest I will never for any excuse condone abuse, neglect, mistreatment, cruelty of a horse. Some not only condone it, they proactively enable it. As for "wallowing in a nostalgic view of times gone by"....a favourite place for me to visit is horse racing memory lane but I do so with my eyes open. Unless things change, the only thing NZ harness racing will end up with is it's past. I spoke to you a while back of a favourite pacer of mine in the 1970's. He won 9 races, 6 as a 4 year old. Despite being a stallion, you described him as a gentleman. He was exported to the US. He became unwell on the trip which was not of his making. The new owner decided to drown him for the insurance. Humane treatment had zero priority. Expediency and insurance money were their priority. I only learned of the appalling circumstances 44 years after it occurred. Unfortunately for me, I'm cursed with visualizing what unfolded and the distress involved. Here's a hypothetical scenario for you Chief. Yes, I will resort to emotive content. You breed a horse. You're there when he's foaled. You watch his progress and are excited when he goes to his first trial and qualifies. You're there when he has his debut run. You're there when he wins his first race with all the implications. You spend time around him and know he's a lovely well mannered horse but with a fierce determination on the track. You invite friends, family and colleagues to share the excitement on race day. You have framed photos of his wins on the wall in your office and lounge. He starts to struggle to compete on the local scene. There are only two hypothetical options on the table. Option 1) A person with an impeccable record who runs an equestrian centre offers you 10k for him. You know he'll be in good hands and you can pop in and see him with his fav treat if / when you get the urge. Option 2) Ben Yole offers you 20k but you know he has a confirmed record of abuse, cruelty, neglect and cheating. Which option are you going with Chief?

For the record, I'm a big fan of Jumps racing. Always have been. Always will be. Those that oppose it in most cases, wouldn't know their arse from their elbow.

We are both on the same page with the nauseating Woke culture. I know of numerous trainers that send certain horses to meet their maker. In every case those I know are good hard working people of both genders making practical decisions. I make no judgement. That is light years away from condoning and enabling diabolical abuse and cruelty.

sure do...but you're just being obtuse now Chief.

one that doesn't have a well known record for abuse and cruelty. The fact Yole has official written and legal judgements confirming what most already knew is more than enough for me...and hopefully many others.

Declare my hand Chief. This is something that surprised those close to me. I've been eating a pescatarian diet only for the last three years. I've always been a big meat eater but it got to a point where me being a softie with animals but eating them didn't line up. I felt insincere and a hypocrite especially when there were decent enough alternatives available. I don't give a flying fark what others eat. I'm not interesting in changing the way anyone else sees eating meat. I'm doing what is comfortable and sits right with me. I still love the smell of bacon, feed our guests a big juicy steak and happily go out in my boat or kayak and fill my bin with fish. For the record, I also have two large aquariums full of tropical fish. My rural mates mostly all take charge of home killing their livestock and it's also common for their children to name their lambs, lega etc and their cattle, sirloin etc. Call me old fashioned or an idealist but I don't see horses in the same way. If I buy a horse of any age or ability, I feel a responsibility for it. That responsibility extends past it no longer being in my ownership. I see "Free to good home" in exactly the same way I see "Selling to a good home". Told you I was an idealist.

I'm pleased you're not comparing my logic to that of H.R. I went to a yearling sale in Auckland some years ago. I learned that 22 yearlings were sent straight to the slaughter house immediately after the sale. Their crime? They didn't meet their reserve. I spoke to the person who signed this off and he stated it was better to send these horses to be killed than risk them ending up with an unreliable buyer. Total bullshit of course. People that care about horses don't send them to be slaughtered because "they care about them". The main reasons of course were It was expedient and there were at least some $$ in it for the breeder. It's easy to justify doing nothing if you are convinced doing nothing makes sense. I'm not a protesting type but I am a big fan of the equine animal. Imagine this scenario. You have the property next door. You've seen how he treats his race horses and it's appalling. You have a horse that has reached it's mark and he offers to buy your horse from you. There is no ambiguity about what abuse and cruelty awaits your horse. Would you still sell it to him? If the answer is yes, then you'd have no issue with sending your horse to the Yole establishment. That would be your call. I can't condone cruelty and abuse to horses so would never sell a horse to Yole or anyone that would likely on-sell to Yole. If Tasmanian harness "needs" Yole, the sooner it's shut down the better.

I agree to a point Chief.....but We have animal welfare laws in NZ that have evolved over the years. We can't stop what's been unfolding in Tasmania but how big a hypocrite are we pretending to give a shit about animal / horse welfare / abuse / cruelty etc if we sell NZ horses to Tasmanian owners ./ trainers knowing what's unfolding there? Surely the recent findings are enough for NZ to say our horses deserve better and we can't condone what's been going on there for years by creating a ban?. I'm sure Tasmanian buyers will get around that by Mainland buyers sourcing their horses for them. Bottom line a respectful message is sent. We are not against Tasmania harness racing. We are against sending our horses to end up with people that have a record of abuse / cruelty. Horses can't speak for themselves. It's fair, reasonable and right that we speak for them.

Iti and Waititi make interesting and ironic choices with their hats. Personally, I wouldn't wear an item of attire that's associated mostly with a culture I don't respect.

As you know Chief, the accused doesn't even need to be an All Black to be gifted a free pass for almost any kind of offending, including repeated violence toward a female partner / ex partner. All that's needed to gain that free pass is the following. 1) be a promising Rugby player who one day may or may not travel overseas with his rugby. 2) express remorse for repeatedly bashing the daylights out of his female partner / ex partner.

Thank you Freda. Not everyone will agree with my perspective but it reflects my observations and those of the overwhelming majority of people I've spoken with over the last few years who are just everyday New Zealanders from all walks of life.

If we use the old Coal miners strike in Northern England as an example Galah, I'm with you. Protesting becomes an important part of the process but that's where the comparison ends. Miners went out on strike "after" dramatic changes were implemented that negatively impacted on them. They had to have a voice as their very way of life was under threat. Now look at what's unfolding in NZ at this time. One of the many reasons Labour were arseholed out of Government relates to the priority, care and support gifted to a minority in NZ based on ethnicity rather than need. Why for example should a mother in a Maori family jump the queue for health treatment for a potential life threatening issue over a mother from a non Maori family with a similar issue at a similar stage? When that call is made based on skin colour, you've stepped onto thin ice. That is even more so when the Maori patient is morbidly obese and is a smoker where as the non Maori patient with a similar health issue is a non smoker and is a normal healthy weight. Te Reo is a beautiful language and I'm happy for it to be used in context and when appropriate. If this is done in a slow respectful way the result will be widespread buy-in. That hasn't occurred. It's been force fed in a time frame that fit electoral cycles. If you don't embrace it, you're a dinosaur and perhaps even a racist dinosaur. This should never be the way forward. I come into contact with many people across the board and it was very telling to hear so many good people pushing back from the prioritizing of all things Maori. The main concerns were the sense of entitlement it would create among Maori when all that non Maori were being served up with was guilt for ancient issues that have absolutely nothing to do with them. These people were born and live in New Zealand. It's their country. Their ancestors fought and died for their country. That country is most definitely not "Aotearoa". They have family, not whanau. Their offspring are their children, not their Tamarika. They go to "work" not mahi etc etc. Important words in English are being changed to Maori. It's being done quickly and in a brainwashing way. Disturbingly, the pace of that change is ramping up. What next? Where does it end? Maori should be proud of their language just like we should be proud of the English language. Change should be slow and respectful or you will see resentment and division. Changing the name of your fav area to a Maori name to accommodate Maori was welcomed by Maori while growing resentment from non Maori was becoming tangible. The word "inclusive" is now seen by many as prioritizing minorities and rejecting the majority. Minority = Good.....Majority = Bad. We saw Labour appoint Poto Williams a Maori woman as the Minister of Police. The backdrop of this was Labour wanting to reduce the prison population (Maori) by 30%. A crime wave followed where the involvement of Maori in that crime wave was obvious to everyone with their eyes open. Williams was eventually dumped but only after horrendous damage had been done. Ardern stated Williams had lost her focus. How does the Minister of Police lose their focus during a crime wave? Truth is Williams never had any focus and was completely unsuitable for her important role. Her appointment was yet more virtue signaling from Labour, something they were famous for. Williams is widely regarded as New Zealand's worst ever Minister of Police. Her legacy is a country less safe for all of us. Kiri Allan was remarkably the Minister of Justice. Less said there the better. Gangs in NZ are predominantly Maori. There is no doubting the fact Labour were soft on gangs. That fit in with their goal of prioritizing Maori and clearing out 30% of the prison population. Serious crimes were routinely downgraded to accommodate Labour's target. Home Detention became the Crowns gift to serious Maori offenders. Anyone who doesn't think Maori offenders were aware of this have not been paying attention. The dynamic which is seen in virtually every area of Government / media needs to pause / stop. The force feeding and guilt must stop. Dividing a country to serve an agenda should never be the way forward. We live in a democracy. Sometimes the elections throw up a result many don't want but that's how democracy works. You can't pick and choose when you respect democracy based on what a minority demand. On October 14th 2023, New Zealanders voted for change. Part of that change was hitting pause / stop in some areas and examining things that may be hurting our country rather than helping it. The new Government won a mandate to do this via the very people of New Zealand. Now we have a group of entitled Maori that want to flush our democracy down the shitter because it's not prioritizing them as they have become accustomed to in recent years. There has been widespread fearmongering and misinforming from within Maori and via our media over what the Government will and won't do. Jenna Lynch of TV3 is truly nauseating. She is stoking the fires of division to curry favour, serve an agenda and win brownie points. Some Maori are demanding the new Government say "fck you" to everyone that voted for them because their policies may or may not suit Maori. You listen to the two Maori reporters on TVNZ at Waitangi and you see an agenda at work. Make all New Zealanders believe every Maori is against the new Government and their numbers are enormous and their actions unprecedented. Bullshit! Waitangi Day has been Maori Protest day for decades. Maori have been protesting every week of every month of every year for as long as I can remember. It's become their go-to. If you want more lollies, protest. If you want more priority, protest. If you want to increase the impetus, just choose your platform and add in a ton of fearmongering and guilt. Demand demand demand. The TV networks have been leading their 6pm news bulletins since Thursday with Waitangi protests and anger. The beast is being fed. Today and tomorrow will see an even bigger ramping up of this. This is not about protesting "wanting" a better deal. It's the divisive and entitled demanding that democracy is ignored exactly as if the group of Maori involved are the entire population of New Zealand. I hope the new Government confirm to the protestors being swept up by a wave of entitled fearmongering and misinformation that they are only one small group of New Zealanders. A lesson in how democracy is also overdue.

We all accept the Maori protests on Waitangi Day this Tuesday will be loud, confused and angry. We may even see some Palestinian flags despite that having absolutely zero to do with our National day. Maori protestors will be keen to intimidate the Crown and have them and other New Zealanders believe their numbers are much bigger than they are. Of concern is that one or two of the protestors may believe "any" action they take is reasonable and justified regardless of how diabolical it is. May even gift some nobody the opportunity to become some type of hero or martyr to other Maori and gain their 15 minutes of fame. The question of the day is this. WHAT WILL BE THROWN @ DAVID SEYMOUR? 1) PAINT. 2) POO 3) DILDO 4) FLAG 5) OTHER

I thought Lamarli in race eight won comfortably on Friday and looked a likely winner for day two.

Great run by Don't Stop Dreaming who must be very hard to beat in the Chariots of Fire. I don't think the rough steps cost him victory. Maybe cost him getting closer. Leap of Fame to my eye had them covered and was putting his cue back in the rack. Just how I read it. Whatever the case, it was a great run. He's not a bad option for the All Stars with Akuta getting injured late and pulling out of the trip..

Can't fault your choices Newmarket. All from the top drawer. There have been and are a lot of wonderful people in harness racing, both men and women. Almost feel I should give myself a slap for not mentioning some terrific people I've had the pleasure of their company but can't name them all. The Jones / Butt dynasty will always be at the top table for me...and DG at the head of that table toasting a single malt to Murray. Legends

MOMENTS LIKE THIS - broke shortly after the start losing all chance and was retired from the race. A warning was placed on the barrier record of the filly. Attended to by the Veterinarian immediately after the race and was found to be lame in the off hind leg. Stood down pending a veterinary clearance prior to resuming. Jean Feiss owns the filly. Just a reminder of other horses she picked out. Spanish Armada Self Assured Vincent Amazing Dream

I'd like to acknowledge this wonderful man who died suddenly in December 2005. Murray left his mark in harness racing and his loss is still felt 19 years after his passing. He was a big part of a harness racing dynasty that deserves to acknowledged, remembered and respected. Harness Racing Royalty. R.I.P Murray. Canterbury's close-knit harness racing industry farewelled one of its favourite sons on Saturday. Murray Butt's public funeral was held at the Templeton Community Centre, near Christchurch, at 12noon. Butt, aged 59, died suddenly and unexpectedly at his Templeton property, Oriole Lodge, on Tuesday 6 December. The Canterbury harness racing community was rocked by the sad and unscheduled circumstances of his passing. Many are struggling to come to grips with his untimely death. Acclaimed as a modest and unassuming personality, he invariably created the impression he wanted to get along well with as many people as possible. He was very good at it. A warm humoured and agreeable individual, he shunned conflict and criticism and invariably demonstrated acceptable gentlemanly ways that endeared him to all he knew. He was once described by a respected contemporary as "unflappable and always the same.'' His marriage to Jennifer Jones, a daughter of industry legend Derek Jones MNZM, in April 1965 was to forge an alliance of two of Canterbury's famous sporting and harness racing families that has exerted profound influences on the growth and recognition of the industry in New Zealand. All three of their sons, Tim, Anthony and Roddy have enjoyed huge success and their only daughter Chrissie is married to prominent trainer Cran Dalgety. It would be superfluous to list the prolific feats with horses of their three sons who are industry household names. But a special spot, of course, will always be reserved for the likes of champion trotters Lyell Creek and Take A Moment and pacers Mister D G, Happy Asset and Blossom Lady (trained by Derek Jones) and Justaboyden and Judicial who were major Perth winners for Roddy. Anthony was regular driver of Blossom Lady (two A G Hunter Cups and a NZ Cup).Anthony and Roddy were the first drivers to win dual Australasian Junior Driving Championships. Murray Butt was a son of the late Wes Butt, New Zealand's leading trainer on seven occasions between 1945 and 1962. Wes also topped the national drivers' premiership in 1945-46 and 1952-53. Murray's father-in-law Derek Jones twice won the trainers' premiership in 1965 and 1969 in partnership with Jack Grant (late) and is one of only three New Zealand trainers to top 1000 wins (1011), the others being Cecil Donald (late) and Roy Purdon. Murray's brother Robin of Preston Farm, West Melton, was also a household name in harness racing as the trainer and/or driver of Locarno (Miracle Mile), Camelot (NZ Cup) and classic winner City Rogue. Murray's nephew David Butt (son of Robin) topped the 2003-2004 trainers' premiership in partnership with his wife Catherine. Murray first met his wife Jennifer at Templeton Primary School before Murray spent the 1960-62 period as a boarder at St Andrews College in Christchurch. "And, when I came out of St Andrews, there was Jenny waiting for me," Murray recently quipped to the writer. The young couple got away to a flying start in life with the winnings of champion filly Golden Oriole who was raced by Murray and trained by his father. After she won her first race, Murray exercised a right of purchase (450 pounds) on the filly he leased from Jim Dalgety. Golden Oriole won about £9000 at a time when a pound was a pound and was later sold to clients of USA horseman Eddie Cobb for the equivalent of about $40,000 as a 5-Year-Old. Golden Oriole won 10 races in New Zealand and was champion 2-Year-Old of her year when she won the NZ Sapling Stakes, one of four straight wins in that campaign.The daughter of Local Light won the Great Northern Derby at three. Murray's father Wes was not only the trainer but also the "Responsible Person'' in terms of ownership legalities as Murray was technically too young to assume any ownership role. Golden Oriole was no slug in open ranks before her sale overseas. She beat the mighty Lordship in a feature Addington sprint. Funds from Golden Oriole's sale to USA assisted Murray and his wife to set up the Oriole Stud that they operated during the years 1968-1983. Sires they stood at the property included Good Time Eden, Tartan Hanover, Gentry, Scrappy Wave, Crockett, Pacific Hanover, Leading Light and Valerian. Dual gaited Crockett, sire of standouts Bronze Trail and Sprockett, was probably the pick of the sires they stood. Murray gained his first success as a trainer with Countaway on January 10, 1973. He actually prepared a small team of six horses while mixing stud duties with that pursuit. Game Nian (eight wins) was a capable trotter for him. As a driver, he posted two notable wins with talented pacer Golden Moose in the Kaikoura Cup and the 1985 NZ Firestone FFA, the second leg of the TAB double on Cup Day. His brother in law Peter Jones won the first leg, the NZ Cup, with outsider Borana. Murray was a former president of the NZ Harness Racing Trainers and Drivers' Association that he represented for three years at HRNZ Executive level before standing down three years ago. He was also the president of the Canterbury branch for five years (1990-1995). Murray Butt enjoyed helping his son Tim at his showplace training establishment where he also took a close interest in horses part owned by his wife Jennifer in trotters Genius and Lotsa Speed this season and another grand trotter in Noam in 2001 and 2002. Noam later raced with distinction when sold overseas. Viewfinder, Keep Up, Night Hawk, Peeping Tom, Success, Marmoose and Roimata Lad were only some winners Murray trained earlier in his career. The Sniper, Red Tip Governor, Cracker Nova, All Talk, Bizness, Bolaz and Bestoranum were a handful of useful outside drives he was associated with. Murray Butt and his wife enjoyed several overseas trips to follow the success of their sons. The couple eventually subdivided half of their original 100 acre block of land and they bought the late Wes Butt's 16-acre Mankind Lodge complex at Templeton where the couple built a 20-bay all weather golf driving range in 1995. They operated the venture themselves for a year before leasing it out. Murray and Jenny Butt were seemingly inseparable companions at Canterbury harness racing fixtures and also at Auckland and overseas raceways. They derived much genuine pride in the success of their children in harness racing and invariably accepted it modestly and graciously. The couple's numerous grandchildren were also a source of much warmth and enjoyment. Murray and Jenny Butt's combined act will be difficult to follow. Credit: Don Wright

That last race Newmarket highlights there is no such thing as a certainty on a race track. I'm 100% sure Moments Like This is the real deal and will win multiple group one races in her career providing she stays sound. The way she pricked her ears back and sprinted away from the field @ Ashburton is something only extra good horses can do. Everything screamed out she'd win the last race last night and the fact Nat was driving her just said times and margins please. ...but she lost the plot at the start and was pulled up. I never factored that in as a possibility. It doesn't change her ability but it is a brutal reminder that they are animals not machines. https://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gws/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=661B7FF4-5D48-48B1-BB16-248C1E0F9478&Arg=hrnzg-rSite&Arg=TRUE

He led all the way @ Blenheim and won easy. Was had on by Randel Huston P which took a toll. Didn't go down by much. I enjoy other people tipping out who they think will go well. I go and look why they tipped it. Everyone knows horses can make us all look like mugs but I'd rather have that than not tipping at all or being a gun tipster after the race. I can't tip a $1.60 pop but I can tip who will run second. Moments Like This is a superb horse on her way to big things. She's the real deal and will win the last for fun. Xlendi will run second for Bob..... then F for third

100%

She's their Virtue Signal. Young, female, Lesbian. She's won her electorate seat so ticks that box as well. If only she was Maori. As you know Chief the "Gweens" have a loyal group of devotees. The female of the species have more armpit hair than the guys at the local building site and wear a moustache to compete with Mark Sainsbury's. They wear sensible shoes, old woolen jumpers they picked up from a Salvation Army Store in 1986 for 50 cents. Many also enjoy wearing white socks with their Roman Sandals and especially enjoy eating mung beans and bean sprouts. This group of lost and bewildered that Holy Ravioli likely signed up to would still vote Gween even if they ran kitten and puppy drowning campaigns. In my opinion, having Chloe as their Goddess will make SFA difference to them or the rest of us....unless it's an especially quiet news day

Gloriavale

Who gives a fark. He's a decent enough politician but he only looks decent enough because he surrounded by a transgender cheerleading squad that has contempt for the white man, especially the successful "cis" white man. Greens are only there cashing in on climate fears but in reality, achieve nothing that makes a meaningful difference. HR will admire them.