Gammalite

Public do attend the races, that aren't involved directly with horses. My children for example (20 somethings) , I have difficulty telling them the horses are Fine. It only looks like a whipping. But they don't approve still. A whip used 5 times is the same as 10 times to them (and to horse) Some people don't want car racing either. (emmissions in environment ,etc) they make tiny changes . My Children didn't say stop racing. just change one of the aspects as discussed. I say horses generally love to run as you said, (some don't hahahaha) , and I know it is very hard to WIN a race. Therefore Any Aid is good that helps, the whip being a traditional one (just like Blinkers Chief) but it is causing a lot of issues. Jockeys being called Cheats ? laughable . but its only dumb ass Thom ass. I never Once thought I was actually hurting a horse in a race. just prompting it to react and hang tough ! just like an administrator !!! I think a jockey/ driver would find it Very difficult without a whip. The 'issues' are mounting though, and when the time comes, and a horse is disqualified in a feature (say Opie the other day). Racing will suffer. punters will back other sports .

Popular in the betting later on Chief, as was just looking at that 4 year old season for Royden Glen. If you put a tenner on each of the 12 wins ($120) you won every race but only collected $210 for the whole season!!! lucky you got on early lol.....

Well it helps gain a reaction that keeps you in the race that little bit more , than without. There has been great debate about 'margins' achieved , but surely this is each horse on an individual basis thing. There is great debate about pain suffered . as Chief was saying , they are compromised in other ways a lot more. A/ I'm all for Horse Welfare , so take it away if a problem, but is subjective. also B/ that avoids this Jockey Count strike Debacle. (discussed through this thread) AND C/ could Help public perception too, as isn't the Last 100m Actually when everyone is watching the race the most or closest ??? Just when the jocks are going Hell for Leather too. Not sure the general public will be going away thinking ,"That was ok for the horses!!, as they only got 5 strikes , instead of 10. (OR whatever the threshold is these days) Throw it away altogeather, saves any of A , B or C being a factor at all.

Took no harm from that fall thankfully as back in action in Sept. Royden Glen and Fred Fletcher being the first NZ harness horse to scoop Every Vote for harness horse of the year that following season. As a 4 year old 12 Starts. 12 wins inc. NZ Messenger and Auckland Cup which I was lucky enough to be at and were most impressive victories.

Yep ! last horse back up on feet , about 5 mins after race. At the bottom of a stack that was like a rugby scrum at the winning post.

wow ! same year 1984 as Master Mood (3rd in that sires stakes) who went on to a NZcup and Miracle Mile wins. Earlier that year 1984, the previous Crop of 3 year olds had that 9 horse crash in the NZ Derby. remember that? Naval Officer and one of your southerners Josephine Bret 2nd (the rank outsiders) left standing and ran the Quinella.

Who is it Ranga? Facetious is showing 8 foals with only 5 wins between them. ARVEEAE showing $60,000 winnings from 1 career win , so maybe him? a derby or something maybe?

i before e Thomass, You lost HEART long ago with your narrow minded attacks on everything racing. You gone in .....full cocked ??? MarkyMark's post nothing to do with harness (BTW which is horse racing , AND has owners, punters, tab, winners, whip fines and suspensions) so much in common with thoroughbreds ?, but NOT in a narrow Thomass World. Now I do agree , that whips are causing a problem, the horses do suffer welts as you demonstrated , and YES , throw the thing away and avoid all this fuss. (Horses that can't count will be feeling better !!!!) BUT , why the Opie hate? To me as a Punter , I say the jockeys that aren't winning are Cheating !!! They could do better, ( like Opie did) and achieve a better position ? just like those Melbourne Cup jockeys did ? Risking (and getting) financial sanction to themselves to WIN for the owners and Punters. GOOD on em !! The ones that sat back and didn't run a place in those races are the Cheats ? Cheating the punters out of their chance of a collect on the race? , nor denying the owners a big race win? while the champions getting the most out of their horses and WIN. Well done Opie , a true winner !!!

race day vets are acting on the stewards advice/instruction. 1/ take pre-race blood swabs list 2/ take the post race urine swabs of winners (and possibly others the stewards ask for. 3/ Assess horses Post race that have not performed to the Stewards expectations. (check heart ,etc) 4/ check horses condition Pre-race IF notified of an incident (such as got down on the float, got a kick, etc) by the Trainer or the Stewards. Good vets can spot things before you. I had one all over me like a rash as came back in to stable area after a race, with blood in one nostril .so I just told him I hit the barrier arm with the pulling poofter. It's a tough caper. Most trainers have been going around for years. A Lot of horses have issues with hooves and tendons (These have The vast majority of lameness issues) as the forces generated on them are enormous. No trainer would start a horse they know well , if even remotely thinking it was sore enough to be a hazard to others. I'd estimate from experience about 1 in 10 racing has some sort of minor issue . just like human athletes. The horse on this thread is only new to the Trainer by the sound of it , so stewards have every right to scratch it , and YES , a knowledgeable Vet would have a few minor tests he/she could perform. some are very simple such as feeling heat in a hoof with your hand. A sure fire sign of hoof ailment.

No offence was intended Chief. absolutely not. Indeed I was trying to say that it is such a compliment to yourself and indeed thank-you for the miles of thread input, knowledge and discussion. JJ flash I was joking with ,about the attacking posting of a couple like Forbs and Thomass whom to me, show little respect for racing and harness achievements. does annoy me but unlike any of them , I hold NO Grudges..... so a Different Class to those folk thankfully, perhaps as Hunter says Aussie Bogan class ?? hahaahaha lol.... This thread opening post quite in Poor taste....

Yes that is an amazing Effort there by the Chief too , JJ !!!! And A great chunk of the 70k + dealing with Thomm-ass on the gallops too. That Would drive anyone to the brink lol.. or the drink ...lol.... some kind of wonderful surely an understatement dealing with that lol... Take it HaveagoforburydunedinretardD is not a Mark Purdon fan ?? going by the shit headline of this thread...lol.... doesn't know a 'good' thing when he see's it lol.......... and he did drive a winner anyway.

A very good deterrent really. Without random breath test The roads would be full of people 'risking' those extra drinks and being over the limits . Not catching anyone? proof it is working. The RIU a very good deterrent. . without investigations, sampling etc, The tracks would be full of people 'risking' those extra touch-ups to horse and going over the limit, or a punt on a fix race (a criminal offence so good to have police involvement), Not catching anyone? proof it is working.

When/If she comes back to Aus, Nat could play Aussie rules footy in AFLW with that haircut.

Here's my take on it. These guys are journo's and have to print this stuff as it comes along. Part of their job. As Galah says they are sort of telling the public, these cheats/rule breakers ARE being weeded out , and Punished too. ! a good thing. As some like Brodie say , they are overdoing it. Too much rehashing. Putting a picture of McGrath (7 years DQ) with a Big trophy was sending a BAD MESSAGE. A picture tells a thousand words, and that picture was just saying to me that 'Cheats Prosper in Harness Racing" not a good image to keep projecting, for the sport at all. And also (JUST like the presence of a booze bus that Doesn't catch anyone on the road) the RIU and Inca have 'played a part' even if Chief is saying what a joke. Surely with their presence and dealing with McGrath types, the Industry is in good shape (cheat wise) as everyone would of backed off a bit with illegal activity. So I think Galah would be right in saying Harness more 'Clean' than ever, and Alford a rare abnomily. The KERR thing sounds particularly nasty as would be driving good folk out of the industry getting ripped off.

Nat is missing from the driving . Absolute world class. driving mainly in BIG group races with more pressure. last 100 drives achieved 40 wins. that is hot. Williams does well but only runs with the averages. That is tonight he had 12 drives for many stables . Drove in every race. He drove 3 favourites and 4 second favourites. Finished with 3 winners and 4 seconds. Spot on what you might expect. Natalie Rasmussen would have say 4 drives and get 2 winners (if not three) because of being able to Concentrate on Just your Runners , and not all the jump around like a frog in a blender routine Williams has to do.

4 drives One winner. Great drive by Mark in the last race to win at 10-1. where were ya for that one? Put a tenner on each of the four to to win HaveagoForbs , THEN ya coulda bought a carton beer for the Weekend . AND had some left to get KFC on the way home tonight. !!! why.

Well a couple of nice winners and seconds. from the Cullen yard Addington Friday. didn't have that ALLstars magic feel about it . Gammalite just missing Nat I think? lol...... Was going to be a test how they (Cullens) could beat one of the New Stars on the scene in RAGAZZO MACH with 2 horses in the race. SHOCK !! What was Mark thinking on his one ? Shock I have to say that. Didn't help out PACE N PRIDE at all , by pulling into the deathseat and giving Ragazzo Mach a nice trip into it , for the last lap. But Lucks a Fortune , PaceN Pride held on well anyway. Mark must of been thinking it would come around him and force the issue with the leader. ???Like a Good solid ALLSTARS horse would of done ?? Regazzo Mach only 2nd again to Cullens horses, so will find Krug hard in Derby then?. Thought it was a 'Good thing' tonight too.

True, and you know already i find it hard to be critical of drivers. I respect trotters as well and the balance needed to Get them home first. afterall ,even 'Sundees Son' (the current best NZ trotter) used to jump out of gait in the Addington straight on occasion. Butcher was actually jiggling legs and that in the gig last night, and looked to be trying hard to me . And then an unfavourable Headline here about Race FIXING ? FFS , beaten a nose , accused of race fixing? what a slap in the face for the bloke, just so Uncalled for. Why not praise the winner instead? Yeah , was 'surprised' with the lack of vigour on EASY PICKINGS. But wasn't crying foul, afterall he had closed in on the leader all the way to the line, and nearly got there. I'm just used to 'more vigour' in Australian racing.

All the jockeys have the opportunity to leave welts on the horses , not just some that the Doubting Thomass doesn't like Willow, (and esp Opie) O of course the racehorses are driven by noise Mr DoubtingT. Do you Not know that ??????? in your eternal non-wisdom? Damien Oliver the 'master' of noise generation, you can hear him from the grandstand. Bet a little bit of that whip use is up near the ears as you say too !! Brushing the blinker Cups with a swish for a bit more noise, Fright and flight ? you betcha Doubter. !!!! watch a little harder. And AMARELINHA is still trying to work out how 'HARD done By' she was with this 'Confounded Cheat' on her back. She is trying to get in touch with the 2nd horse NEEDLE AND THREAD to see if it is suffering the lasting effects she had to endure (so much more than herself) ???? what a joke, I was/am laughing at the stupidity of it all. ALL the horses are being Cheated, lol.... Opie only ?? yea Na ! Isn't that what they say here lol..........

Often the driver on a trotter seems much 'Stiller in the gig' than they do on a pacer in the home straight, when going Flat Out. a balance thing. **Take a look at Ben Hope on EASY PICKINGS two weeks ago when a head 2nd to SMokin Bander at Addington in race 8 on March 5th. I was surprised to see him sitting quite still up the running , after cosy 1-1 trip and lose by a head sitting quietly. Stewards report said it was trotting roughly , so driver Hope unable to drive it out ?? looked to be trotting well to the naked eye. ?? BUT that seems the style in a few trots races . hold em' togeather. no galloping in straight. Zac Butcher could just say this same thing to Stewards as Ben Hope did.? and all will be fine.

He only got beat a Nose. after death seating. some are being harsh forbs What is an 'Information Lodged charge'??? is that some sort of objection? Butcher Probably thought he had the leader covered, but 'Free as Air' kept kicking to JUST hold on. If he did not 'WANT' to win it , he could of stayed 4 back on the fence where he was early in the race, AND then would of been NO HOPE , but instead he pulled into the death seat and was tackling leader from the quarter.

Yes they call it 'Progress' ,but you wonder in what direction ? seems downwards progress for racing, closing those beautiful training Centres sadly.

Triangles ! , are the go now, moving on from Mark's 'stars' ,and Mark's dad Roy's(and Barrys) blue 'Spots'. I always liked the tradional 'ALLBLACKS' colours, a true 'NZ identity' thing. Peter Wolfenden MBE (Cardigan Bay with Blk and white sash), and Cecil Devine (Lord Module with Blk and white stars) were always looking splendid in their fine NZ colours. footnote: grand NZer jockey Jim Cassidy rode a brilliant race in the 2000 Caulfield Cup (one of Aus Biggest races) on the horse DIATRIBE to carry the actual 'AllBlacks' colours of Black with a silver fern to Victory !! The Cullen 'Triangles' go around on near dozen horses tomorrow night Addington. Most of which Allstars DIDN'T win with either, so Cullen can really forge his own identity. Good luck to him.

One of the absolute best was the commentators horse.!! Keith Haub has Mr McGinty. Couple of Group 1's and several placings in Australia including the 1983 Caulfield Stakes. 14 wins from just 27 starts as missed racing due to injury at times. Won the Todman Slipper Trial with a cracked Cannon bone and all !! That is tough as you come !! When a lad in TAKANINI Sth Auckland, we played social muckaround cricket on Sundays at the gallops training track there . Galloping boys against us trotters blokes, sometimes 20 in each side ! lol ... Bobby Vance would rock up and we were in Awe of him doing another 'Uncle Remus' with the new Colin Jillings star horse called McGINTY. Everyone thought it would make Takanini HUGE in the world of racing, (Colin Jillings and McKee stables did!!!!) Back at the cricket, you had to place your beer bottle when batting, right up against the back of stumps , so if you were bowled out , you got punished by losing some of your beer !!! hahahah and you fielded with beer in hand , and it was sporting to just go for the 'One-Handed' catch appropriately. lol..... sometimes with 20 people in the field was hard to find a gap too.....lol. Jock's were good batters too !!!!

Very awful looking picture of "Vow and Declare" there Thomass. oh dear. Couldn't Most Jockeys leave welts like that ? Using the 5 strikes allowed before 100m point. ? So ALL the horses are a chance of this happening to them ....... I say YES. NOT just Opie either VERY STRONG as you say, not long after Willow williams won the Cup with Vow and Declare , Had a BIG whip ride on Yogi too !!! Craig Williams Sandown Cup win with YOGI , 12 strikes prior to 100m point 7 meeting suspension Hugh Bowman Marmelo 2nd in Mel Cup, 12 strikes prior to 100m point 10k fine Michael Walker Prince of Arran 2nd in Cup , 12 strikes prior to 100m point 7 meetings and 10k fine Kerrin McEvoy TIGER MOTH 2nd in the 2020 Mel Cup just the other day, (co fav with a LOT of money on) so copped 13 strikes prior to the 100m point, penalty 13 meetings suspension , 50k fine reduced to 30k on appeal. GOD DAMN IT !! they're getting worse each year !!! Bloody Cheats !! you'd think they're trying to win or something. more strikes than Opie did, leading this thread here complaint too !!!!!! even BIGGER Cheats these mugs ???? lol.... so some more Counting Classes are necessary for these Cheat jockeys too? lol...... Throw the thing away!! I say and avoid all this hassle. Was bad enough the Anthony Van Dyke horse breaking down in front of the world in the last Cup. Very sad. Could you imagine the uproar and TOTAL CHAOS if they took a placing off a runner in a Group 1 for a whip offence ???? Phase Whip Out? What about if a Jockey 'Breaks the Whip Rule" then as a Penalty, they have to ride 'X' amount of races afterwards without one? then another offence , even more meetings , and so on ??? Gee , they would learn to count REAL QUICK!!!!!. lol. Kerrin McEvoy