mardigras

Either Torcedor is no longer coming - or if he is, you can back him at 80s now. Has been a big drifter on betfair after still trading around high 20s, early 30s after last race. Mind you 80s might be a bit short even if he still comes.

Any methods that put the focus on delivering for themselves and being accountable for the success of the industry(s)/club(s) should be the ways forward. The other methods rely on social welfare.

Here's a couple of very long priced ones I think will go OK. R3 #8 Whowouldknow R4 #16 Geneva Mist both at $35s even on NZ TAB.

I don't know what the % as such should be. But I would think the best way is to deliver the net proceeds to each code based on their net earnings. Run the betting operator as a pay service. Pay for airtime. Pay for fixed odds management. Apportion some shared services. Allow the codes to decide what services they want and when - and pay accordingly. Then allow then to receive the net proceeds from all of that. i.e. if greyhounds didn't want fixed odds, they could decline that service. If they wanted airtime with two staff at the track for coverage, they pay for it. Standard business model. Then they would see just how their business does in respect of income and expense. And receive the net proceeds accordingly. The current model is massively contrived around which code gets the airtime/the promotion etc. But they don't pay proportionally for that.

My view is that people simply don't think these things through. They don't do what Messara suggests in Australia. And one of the reasons is probably that. Why would they give up control over their revenue stream based on decisions tabcorp etc make. It's a kneejerk rection because they have made their beds and now don't seem to want to sleep in them.

It's a business. Not an emotion. I don't blame the NZ industry from lobbying in that way, although I would have thought putting as much effort into actually getting the NZ racing in shape would be more fruitful. A model such as that has some major issues. It removes the incentive to actually front up with anything in our own backyard. They wouldn't need to address anything here since they would be propped up by racing that in reality is unrelated to it. And worse than that, it is open to easy manipulation. The betting agency can simply take more off-shore gallops races and less of the others. Driving the resulting ratios up in favour of one over the another. Simply shifting the revenue model however they feel. The current model has no impact from either of those issues since the current model allows the individual codes to operate their racing in a competitive fashion to deliver the best results it can against its local competitors and the current model requires that the NZ codes actually try and deliver something attractive to punters.

Is it bias or is it just poor riding? And didn't the first winner miss the start by a couple of lengths. The caller suggested so. Can you explain what you mean by a bias? Are you suggesting there is a fast lane a horse or two wide on the track?

The NZ codes are in competition. And part of that competition is other betting options (such as Australian gallops or harness). As far as you're concerned, you may want what you want. I'd like the money I spend at Australian bakeries to go back to my bakery in NZ. But why would it? It simply doesn't make any sense. It's an idea that NZ galloping followers want because they have an affinity and want to try and justify getting their hands on the extra revenue. But there is no actual known link between the two. If the % on off-shore gallops was 20% of all off-shore, the topic would never have been raised by Messara. Simple as that. And it certainly wouldn't be being pushed for by gallops people.

Well 42 noms is not quite the same as 90. You claimed 'most'. All I stated was that your numbers were well beyond the norm. Eg Wodonga on the 14th had 333 noms. I don't really care about whether they race on All weather tracks or not. They serve a purpose. There is ample opportunity to run on grass. But running on grass in Oz doesn't necessarily mean running on a wet track like it does here in those months. And clearly enough people are happy to race there and enough people are happy to bet there. If we could get 1/5 of the turnover on grass that they get on the synthetics, we might be going OK. And I haven't advocated running those types of synthetics in NZ either. If people don't like them, don't race on them and don't bet on them. Easy.

I'm not disputing your dislike of synthetic tracks or your need to shift your horses elsewhere. I'm disputing your claims re nominations, which so far, you have put up nothing to support those claims.

Are they? Well bugger me. Since they are the same as Pakenham. And not the same as MV. Who knew? Clearly not you.

R2 #10 Flaunt It Girl. Shaun Mckay to make it a quick double. Multi them up for a $10 + div. Side Winders Off. (And Side Winkers off as well!) Has real quality about her.

Matamata R1 #14 Danelyn. Thomass will be all over her like she's his princess doll. 3 lengths off them in a Listed race two back and unlucky in the extreme last start. $11s on NZ TAB. Only danger Beastmode who has the blinkers on.

They certainly don't seem to mind running more expensive horses on the synthetics in the UK. Habub wins earlier, a $700,000 buy in its first start - on the synthetic. And of course there is one of the current favs for the Melbourne Cup who last won on the synthetic.

Many NZ gallops people say that. But why? What link are you claiming between a person punting on an Australian gallops race and NZ gallops?

So you claim. Perhaps you can give an example of '90 noms for most races carded early in the winter'? Is the 16th of June early winter. Moonee Valley 272 noms for 9 races. Sale on the 14th June 333 noms. Mornington 11th June 378 noms. 10th June Swan Hill 9 races 350 noms. 15th June Geelong Synthetic 307 noms. 12th June Pakenham 291 noms "Most races" you say. Give us an example. I'm happy to tell you how many noms there were.

I wouldn't risk this horse in the cup. He might still win it. But slow ground or not, that was horrendous. Of course one run doesn't rule him out. And after travelling down to Australia, too many risk factors for me. (from RacingUK) Melbourne Cup contender Torcedor disappoints on German debut Sun 23 Sep 2018 Torcedor’s main objective remains the Melbourne Cup despite making a disappointing start for his new connections in Germany on Sunday. The top-class stayer trailed home last of seven runners in the Preis Von Europa at Cologne on what was his first appearance since joining Andreas Wohler. The six-year-old had enjoyed an excellent season for Jessica Harrington, winning the Sagaro Stakes at Ascot in May before being placed behind the John Gosden-trained Stradivarius in both the Gold Cup at Royal Ascot and the Goodwood Cup. However, he left Harrington’s yard for the final time last month after his New Zealand-based owners Te Akau Racing revealed that Torcedor had been sold for a “significant seven-figure sum”. Carrying the colours of the 2014 Melbourne Cup hero Protectionist, Wohler’s new recruit was sent off favourite for the mile-and-a-half Group One contest, with Jamie Spencer taking the ride. Torcedor raced in midfield for much of the way, but was being pushed along rounding the home turn and he ultimately folded tamely in the ultra-testing conditions. Wohler said: “The ground is horrible and he didn’t like it all. He was beaten after about a furlong, I think. “Jamie said he ran on soft ground last year, but soft ground is very different to the horrid ground we had here today. “That (Melbourne Cup) is still the plan. He has to go into quarantine next week. “I think he will probably go straight to the Melbourne Cup and Jamie will ride him. That is why he came to ride him today.”

Fair enough. But i'm not sure of what relevance that has to the condition of Riccarton on Saturday. The times were definitely in the G3 range across the day. The odd race (such as the 2:05) during the day doesn't change that.

Well, 56 and change. And that is one horse. Hardly what I would call a common occurrence at Reefton having horses running around at 56 pace. For 1000m adjusted, I only have one other horse even breaking 57.

Is it the race on 9 Jan 2013. Won in 57.70 according to NZ racing. It's the only horse I can find to break 58.

You tried to use the 'exception' of 2:05 yesterday to prove your 'rule' Only difference is yesterday across the day, they ran at the level of G3.

Can you point me to a race where they've run 56 for 1020m at Reefton. Thanks.

Each track is different. Many horses will break 55 seconds for 1000m at Epsom without raising a sweat.

I have 6 horses run that there. 4 of them this year on the 16th Jan. Didn't seem to do that in this race though. Must have been a wrong reading. Stake: $8,000 Track: GOOD3 Weather: OVERCAST # Name Jockey/Driver/Trainer Win Place 3 Night Life David Walsh 5.80 2.30 2 Dear John Agustina Comignaghi (a3) 2.40 5 Lido Shuffle Jillian Morris (a1) 3.20 Bet Type Runners Dividend Quinella 2, 3 16.10 Trifecta 3:2:5 215.10 First4 3:2:5:12 566.40 ALSO RAN: 12-Tilburg-Shankar Muniandy (a1)(3.9L), 6-Mr Zhou-Jamie Bullard(4.5L), 8-Kahlua-Ashlee Mundy(6.9L), 7-Roodyvoo-Daniel Stackhouse (a1)(7.8L), 9-Fascaad-Kylie Williams(10L), 10-The Star Gazer-Brittany Moore (a3)(11.5L), 4-Tommy Rulz-Terry Moseley(14.1L). Note: Numbers shown are the distance from winner in lengths. Winning Margins: 2-1/2L, Nk, 1LOwners: Mrs J A Glazebrook & Mrs J M F GouldTrainer: Michael Pitman, Yaldhurst, RiccartonBreeding: 8 g Danasinga (AUS)-Night And Day Scratched: 1-Lotus, 11-Selenus, 13-Keepitinthefamily.LATE Scratchings: 13-Keepitinthefamily. SUB: 7Winners Time: 2:05.40

FFS, are you Thomass? That statement is what I would expect from him.