Huey Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 More interestingly why is there now a culture of acceptance of for these country/picnic meetings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 8 minutes ago, Huey said: Yeah about the only race of the day where the jump & run wasn't at play, but clearly the play in the nuggets was set up for the winner. Don't see any leader bias myself. Tempo and ability are the key factors, same as most tracks. You should go next year then come back and share your opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 1 hour ago, Doomed said: Do you know what the word average means? Cost Accountants don't. They only work on single points in time e.g. New Years Day is not profitable to open a Sports Bar because you have to pay time and a half. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 18 minutes ago, Huey said: Yeah about the only race of the day where the jump & run wasn't at play, but clearly the play in the nuggets was set up for the winner. Are you talking about Rosehill? Or Trentham most days now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 15 minutes ago, Huey said: More interestingly why is there now a culture of acceptance of for these country/picnic meetings? I haven't changed and the average punter hasn't. I think people over the last few years of tyranny and centralised control are appreciating simpler things for enjoyment. No dress code, BYO food and drink... The ability to bet from your smart phone has also helped - don't need to move from your ringside table or camper van other than to watch a race or smell the horses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: I haven't changed and the average punter hasn't. I think people over the last few years of tyranny and centralised control are appreciating simpler things for enjoyment. No dress code, BYO food and drink... The ability to bet from your smart phone has also helped - don't need to move from your ringside table or camper van other than to watch a race or smell the horses. The big thing that is continually apparent is that the problems with NZ Racing do not centre around the small clubs. The problems continue to involve the major metropolitan clubs, as they have for many years. How much better off is the industry since the demise of Hokitika, Waimate, Banks Pen and Waikouaiti? Surely that must be measurable? Of course they can point to higher stakes at the relocated Banks Pen and Waikouaiti meetings but that is purely because of NZTR handouts. I imagine that both of those meetings used to run at a profit but now show massive losses. It is all beyond my understanding. I don't recall a single well set out, intelligently reasoned paper from NZTR explaining how all of the policies will do wonders for the industry. If they would just engage a little more and rely on intellect, forums like this could all revert to discussing the merits of various horses not courses. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 41 minutes ago, Doomed said: The big thing that is continually apparent is that the problems with NZ Racing do not centre around the small clubs. The problems continue to involve the major metropolitan clubs, as they have for many years. A recent visit to Trentham by a friend reinforced what you say. They're stuck with monolithic single use stand facilities and other buildings to cater for an era long gone. Kumara proves you don't need any of that to attract a huge crowd. Where is the imagination at Trentham? Why not develop a mobile campervan facility that can be used throughout the year and on raceday? I read on Channel 2 where a loyal club member was building up the Champagne Turf and the crowd that was there. They must have been stuck in the members room with 300 other people because the crickets were still chirping on the rest of the course. I've said it before where these big clubs have gone wrong is they have forgotten what differentiates them from every other hospitality gig in town. The Racehorse! That's who should be catered to first and foremost followed by the trainers, their staff and owners. Why would Trentham in their right mind put a pile of rubble, dirt and building refuse obstructing the view of their unique 1200m shoot is beyond me. They visited the home of @Huey's Mafia recently - the Matamata Racecourse (I presume thats where they hide although there were no armed guards). The facilities are tired and paint chipped but functional. However the main track was immaculate as were all the different training tracks and the facilities for horses were in tip top shape. They were followed around by the Chief of Security though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 (edited) 3 hours ago, Huey said: It is certainly interesting how the picnic locations are now all of a sudden getting high praise from everyone, especially those on trackside. I'm all for the picnic locations and the Kumara crowd looks great & can be replicated at other venues, but the track & the racing there looks awful(jump & run or no hope) & I think Kumara get away with it because of the novelty gimmicky factor i.e. Nuggets, in the middle of no where , I'm guessing byo etc. You can come from anywhere, on any track, it depends on the pace. The Valley isn't exactly 'roomy'. It's a dog track. But the best horses usually manage to win because they are the best. One thing you don't get there often is a walk-and-sprint. Not often on the Coast either. As for praise? why not? many are now aware of agendas afoot to close down many venues and finally are realising just what will be lost without them. And the Coast is particularly vulnerable after the b/s last year at Reefton, following on the reduction from 4 to 3 days of the circuit. Edited January 6 by Freda 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 16 minutes ago, Freda said: One thing you don't get there often is a walk-and-sprint. Not often on the Coast either. I bet a few imepexperienced Jockeys learnt a thing or two yesterday at Kumara. Assuming the Trainers took them aside and critiqued their rides and they listened. The number I saw getting their space wrong and having to check their horses repeatedly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 19 minutes ago, Freda said: The Valley isn't exactly 'roomy'. It's a dog track. I wouldn't call it a "dog track" - it's one of my favourites. The Strathayr track and the bend camber gives all horses a chance. You can still sling shoot for home! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: I wouldn't call it a "dog track" - it's one of my favourites. The Strathayr track and the bend camber gives all horses a chance. You can still sling shoot for home! Yes. You're absolutely right. You can. But it's still structured like a salad bowl. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Are you talking about Rosehill? Or Trentham most days now? Trentham doesn't always play like that, Kumara does however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: I haven't changed and the average punter hasn't. I think people over the last few years of tyranny and centralised control are appreciating simpler things for enjoyment. No dress code, BYO food and drink... The ability to bet from your smart phone has also helped - don't need to move from your ringside table or camper van other than to watch a race or smell the horses. I think people have always appreciated those things, thats always been the case , there has always been a demand for them. The point I'm making is its now quite acceptable for Trackside,NZTR & In crowd to give country picnic racing the thumbs up in public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: A recent visit to Trentham by a friend reinforced what you say. They're stuck with monolithic single use stand facilities and other buildings to cater for an era long gone. Kumara proves you don't need any of that to attract a huge crowd. Where is the imagination at Trentham? Why not develop a mobile campervan facility that can be used throughout the year and on raceday? I read on Channel 2 where a loyal club member was building up the Champagne Turf and the crowd that was there. They must have been stuck in the members room with 300 other people because the crickets were still chirping on the rest of the course. I've said it before where these big clubs have gone wrong is they have forgotten what differentiates them from every other hospitality gig in town. The Racehorse! That's who should be catered to first and foremost followed by the trainers, their staff and owners. Why would Trentham in their right mind put a pile of rubble, dirt and building refuse obstructing the view of their unique 1200m shoot is beyond me. They visited the home of @Huey's Mafia recently - the Matamata Racecourse (I presume thats where they hide although there were no armed guards). The facilities are tired and paint chipped but functional. However the main track was immaculate as were all the different training tracks and the facilities for horses were in tip top shape. They were followed around by the Chief of Security though. Trentham imo is the best track in NZ or rather has the potential to be the best track in the country, this of course may well change with the introduction of the new Ellerslie surface which at first glance looks amazing. But I agree with everything you say regarding the facilities and the running of the club, my recent visits have not been as pleasant as the in the past. I go to the Oaks meeting every year with a group of people and that day has lost all of its impotence imho. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 2 hours ago, Freda said: You can come from anywhere, on any track, it depends on the pace. The Valley isn't exactly 'roomy'. It's a dog track. But the best horses usually manage to win because they are the best. One thing you don't get there often is a walk-and-sprint. Not often on the Coast either. As for praise? why not? many are now aware of agendas afoot to close down many venues and finally are realising just what will be lost without them. And the Coast is particularly vulnerable after the b/s last year at Reefton, following on the reduction from 4 to 3 days of the circuit. Of course you can come from anywhere at any track depending on the track/tempo, but you cannot tell me youre not at a considerable advantage jumping well and putting yourself in the first 3 in a race at the likes of Kumara , that imo makes for boring racing and thats mostly what I saw yesterday. As for praise Kumara RC gets and has had more than enough praise compared to its peers , apart from the novelty factor etc at Kumara much of it is no more warranted than other country/picnic venues that's the point I'm making. Many let a piss up in the countryside distort their view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 32 minutes ago, Huey said: he point I'm making is its now quite acceptable for Trackside,NZTR & In crowd to give country picnic racing the thumbs up in public. Then make sure they walk the talk in the future. Who is the "in crowd"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 24 minutes ago, Huey said: Of course you can come from anywhere at any track depending on the track/tempo, but you cannot tell me youre not at a considerable advantage jumping well and putting yourself in the first 3 in a race at the likes of Kumara , that imo makes for boring racing and thats mostly what I saw yesterday. That's Gai Waterhouse's approach. 25 minutes ago, Huey said: As for praise Kumara RC gets and has had more than enough praise compared to its peers , apart from the novelty factor etc at Kumara much of it is no more warranted than other country/picnic venues that's the point I'm making. Many let a piss up in the countryside distort their view. Distort what view? I think everyone who has something positive to say about Kumara is just applauding what looked like a great day out with a crowd that Trentham, Awapuni, Riccarton and Te Rapa would have been happy with. Many seeds of future racing interest sown yesterday. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: I wouldn't call it a "dog track" - it's one of my favourites. The Strathayr track and the bend camber gives all horses a chance. You can still sling shoot for home! I would usually have one bet at Moonee Valley each year. I hate short straights and Moonee Valley would be shorter than Kumara. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 1 hour ago, Huey said: Trentham imo is the best track in NZ or rather has the potential to be the best track in the country, this of course may well change with the introduction of the new Ellerslie surface which at first glance looks amazing. But I agree with everything you say regarding the facilities and the running of the club, my recent visits have not been as pleasant as the in the past. I go to the Oaks meeting every year with a group of people and that day has lost all of its impotence imho. I went to a couple of Wgtn Cup meetings a few years ago after many years away and it was incredibly depressing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 4 minutes ago, Doomed said: I would usually have one bet at Moonee Valley each year. I hate short straights and Moonee Valley would be shorter than Kumara. Why do you hate short straights? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 1 minute ago, curious said: Why do you hate short straights? Because generally they favour front runners, which means that at the Valley if a decent enough horse is in front turning for home then nothing further back in the field has any chance. The strangest track is Caulfield. It either favours front runners all day or else the winners come swooping down the outside all day. It usually takes a couple of races to figure out which it will be. And with our terrible form guides we can't easily determine which horses are the likely leaders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 And don't get me wrong, I love a good front runner. I used to love Our Boyfriend and Vo Rouge. But I used to love them leading all the way at Riccarton and Flemington. Probably my favourite win of all time was CWJs front running ride on Domino to win the Oaks. And who can forget Pride of Jenni's two wins over Cup week at Flemington. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 4 minutes ago, Doomed said: Because generally they favour front runners, which means that at the Valley if a decent enough horse is in front turning for home then nothing further back in the field has any chance. I disagree. Sometimes back runner Jockeys will leave their run too late but with the camber and the Strathayr there isn't a bias stopping you from coming wide...early! 6 minutes ago, Doomed said: The strangest track is Caulfield. It either favours front runners all day or else the winners come swooping down the outside all day. It usually takes a couple of races to figure out which it will be. That's the surface. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 3 minutes ago, Doomed said: And don't get me wrong, I love a good front runner. I used to love Our Boyfriend and Vo Rouge. But I used to love them leading all the way at Riccarton and Flemington. Probably my favourite win of all time was CWJs front running ride on Domino to win the Oaks. And who can forget Pride of Jenni's two wins over Cup week at Flemington. But those front runners all had high cruising speeds - makes it tough to come from behind regardless of the track. Sunline was the classic high cruise speed front runner. She could string fast furlongs together one after the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 I think all tracks favour horses on the pace regardless of the length of straight, which is why the likes of Gai prefer horses placed there. Back runners have to either find a path through the field or cover extra ground to improve. The latter especially true on tracks with short straights. However, watching a Kiwi Melbourne Cup say, gives me just as big a thrill as the likes of CWJ's win on Domino. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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