Chief Stipe Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 Effectively the profit taken from a successful punter is being redistributed to an unsuccessful punter. Does it not follow that the price the successful punter bought at is less than it should of been? Therefore the smaller punter loses if they win AND when their punt is unsuccessful. I guess ENTAIN see it as a low risk way of bumping the pools up not that we can see the size of the book. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spatchcock Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 I believe Entain 'topped up' the payout after the last so everyone got their money back. As an earlier poster said... somewhere in the vicinity of $10,000. That kind of goodwill will be rewarded today when most of that money will be reinvested across both codes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 34 minutes ago, Spatchcock said: I believe Entain 'topped up' the payout after the last so everyone got their money back. As an earlier poster said... somewhere in the vicinity of $10,000. That kind of goodwill will be rewarded today when most of that money will be reinvested across both codes. So how does the industry benefit by forgoing profit one day in the hope that they will make it back the next day? Ironically that investment goes back to individual punters who won't be topped up today and some will be limited in how much they can win. So if the BGP Betting Syndicate is topped up when they lose but paid out when they win how does that benefit the industry coffers? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 12 Share Posted April 12 8 minutes ago, Spatchcock said: I believe Entain 'topped up' the payout after the last so everyone got their money back. As an earlier poster said... somewhere in the vicinity of $10,000. That kind of goodwill will be rewarded today when most of that money will be reinvested across both codes. Spatchcock, you for one should know that this is for publicity for Entain/TAB and is it good publicity? Hardly! You also know that how the TAB treats restricted punters is also ethically wrong! Also if the TAB/ Entain started treating loyal punters equally then I would not need to keep reminding them of how wrong their policy of massive restrictions is! When TAB allow BGP to wager unlimited amounts and yet limit other punters to $20 win on a bet it is abhorent! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, Spatchcock said: I believe Entain 'topped up' the payout after the last so everyone got their money back. As an earlier poster said... somewhere in the vicinity of $10,000. That kind of goodwill will be rewarded today when most of that money will be reinvested across both codes. going by the figures on the Boys get paid facebook page. Starting pool $165,489. they put the $50,064 they had left going into the last and got a return of $140,179.20 165,489-140,179.20=$25,309.80. So going by their facebook page entain gifted them $25,309.80. As to goodwill,what about some goodwill to the average punter so they can reinvest. How about entain refund any losses in future for those punters clubs that are run on course ,or punters clubs at pub tabs,etc,etc. Edited April 13 by the galah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 11 minutes ago, the galah said: they put the $50,064 they had left going into the last and got a return of $140,179.20 And what a terrible way to spend $50k it was too. Kango and DSD to both be in Top 4. A field of quality runners and Kango did get 3rd, but was only a metre off being 6th. with better performed horses Self Assured, Old Town Road , and Better Eclipse all but getting past him right at the line + 10m after held up in run home and all sorts of things. They were playing for Luck and got it. I'd rather spend $50k on 5 funerals then sweat on Kango holding out some Stars of the Track for 3rd or 4th. It's a funny world. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spatchcock Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: So how does the industry benefit by forgoing profit one day in the hope that they will make it back the next day? Ironically that investment goes back to individual punters who won't be topped up today and some will be limited in how much they can win. So if the BGP Betting Syndicate is topped up when they lose but paid out when they win how does that benefit the industry coffers? Are you specialist? People who paid in, say, $50, get back $50 rather than $45. 95% of them will leave that $50 in their account and give it back to the TAB today, the same as if they had $45 at the start of the day. But in this case they are appreciative of the GESTURE from Entain to give them money back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spatchcock Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 38 minutes ago, Gammalite said: And what a terrible way to spend $50k it was too. Kango and DSD to both be in Top 4. A field of quality runners and Kango did get 3rd, but was only a metre off being 6th. with better performed horses Self Assured, Old Town Road , and Better Eclipse all but getting past him right at the line + 10m after held up in run home and all sorts of things. They were playing for Luck and got it. I'd rather spend $50k on 5 funerals then sweat on Kango holding out some Stars of the Track for 3rd or 4th. It's a funny world. A winning bet playing the speed maps to win $145,000 was terrible? Come on son. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 9 minutes ago, Spatchcock said: A winning bet playing the speed maps to win $145,000 was terrible? Come on son. yes they did well 🙄 , and came out with a winning bet supposedly. Mind you , I was boggled by the whatever it was they put on Republican Party in the previous race. They didn't judge ''Speed Maps there well at all old sport. I'd rather have Self Assured running anyday , rather than Kango. They just got lucky. $50 k on Kango to beat some of those star horses?. lucky he squeezed Mark down on the passing lane in the run home or he was toast. I'd be nervous with $10 of your money on it hahaha 😂. Plus they had to hope Nat wasn't headed off early in the race . Probably could of won if she took the sit on the Aussie as it panned. and left Merlin parked. But had a real crack at taking it out as she always does. Congrats Merlin owner QLDer Dean Shannon , probably the richest man in trotting and just getting richer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 16 minutes ago, Spatchcock said: Are you specialist? People who paid in, say, $50, get back $50 rather than $45. 95% of them will leave that $50 in their account and give it back to the TAB today, the same as if they had $45 at the start of the day. But in this case they are appreciative of the GESTURE from Entain to give them money back. I just asked a question. How is it profitable for the industry? I know for a fact the approach ENTAIN takes with the BGP leaves a sour taste in the mouths of many average punters who have no desire to join the Boys. However I guess like the BGP as a group it's members don't win often and ENTAIN can see that on each individuals profile. Thinking about it they might strike it right one day and it's a no risk proposition if ENTAIN keeps giving their money back when they lose. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 (edited) 1 hour ago, Spatchcock said: Are you specialist? People who paid in, say, $50, get back $50 rather than $45. 95% of them will leave that $50 in their account and give it back to the TAB today, the same as if they had $45 at the start of the day. But in this case they are appreciative of the GESTURE from Entain to give them money back. Thats one positive,but there are many negatives. they include 1)seen as preferrential treatment 2)setting a precedent. Now they have given BGP their money back,why wouldn't anyone joining the boys get paid expect to receive the same in the future. If not,why not. If its a valuable gesture today,then the same logic applies each and every time. 3)did anyone who put money into the boys get paid syndicate ,expect to get a refund if money was lost. If they did,why? If they didn't expect a refund,then how is entain losing any goodwill by doing something not expected of them? Don't punters after all accept that sometimes you lose when you gamble.Gambling is by defintion a risk with no guarantee of success. 4)you say the boys get paid will reinvest today. The main meetings today are gallops,not trots. How does giving $25,000 money earned on the harness horses,then spent on gallops,assist harness income. 5)enatin promoting something based on the perception that if the syndicate wins,they win and if the syndicate loses,it loses. In other words, entain have created a degree of distrust with their twist at the end of the nights gambling. I have nothing against the boys get paid whatsoever. They do a great job ,without any entain help,of promoting themselves and promoting racing.The perception problem with bgp getting gifted money is an issue solely derived from entains actions. The only negative i can see with the boys get paid is they seem to let people they call haters,influence in how they enjoy themselves. Maybe thats a a sign that there would be a degree of pressure from gambling with larger amounts of other peoples money. But after all,anybody who puts money into a bgp syndicate must know its gambling,unless of course they have an expectation ,based on the past,of entain gifting money to them when they lose. Edited April 13 by the galah 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 14 hours ago, Brodie said: Surely the If Boys Get Paid have got any credibility and they have been refunded the amount they lost, they would donate the whole lot to a worthwhile CHARITY! Surely it would find its way back to the Syndicate members. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 15 hours ago, Brodie said: If Boys Get Paid have got any credibility and they have been refunded the amount they lost, they would donate the whole lot to a worthwhile CHARITY! Destiny Church ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 47 minutes ago, Rangatira said: Surely it would find its way back to the Syndicate members. I don't think @Brodie understands that it is a syndicate that you buy $1.01 shares in. It all goes back to the individuals accounts if there are any winnings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spatchcock Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 3 hours ago, Gammalite said: yes they did well 🙄 , and came out with a winning bet supposedly. Mind you , I was boggled by the whatever it was they put on Republican Party in the previous race. They didn't judge ''Speed Maps there well at all old sport. I'd rather have Self Assured running anyday , rather than Kango. They just got lucky. $50 k on Kango to beat some of those star horses?. lucky he squeezed Mark down on the passing lane in the run home or he was toast. I'd be nervous with $10 of your money on it hahaha 😂. Plus they had to hope Nat wasn't headed off early in the race . Probably could of won if she took the sit on the Aussie as it panned. and left Merlin parked. But had a real crack at taking it out as she always does. Congrats Merlin owner QLDer Dean Shannon , probably the richest man in trotting and just getting richer. You won't find any argument from me that Republican Party and Muscle Mountain were both bad options given their draws/handicaps. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: I don't think @Brodie understands that it is a syndicate that you buy $1.01 shares in. It all goes back to the individuals accounts if there are any winnings. Chief, there are clearly many things that Brodie doesnt understand nowadays! People bought into the BGP betting fund that was promoted on the TAB web site!! There was a loss of 25k on the night but the gambling business run by the TAB said hey, you lost money so we will give the money lost back to everyone! It is just blatant BS when all other punters who wager that are not in the BGP syndicate do not get any losses refunded!!! The decision to do this is just another unethical decision made by the TAB/Entain and as far as Brodie is concerned they can go get one in them! I am over this very dishonest business, and it is not the first time that some have been reimbursed for a losing bet and others who had the same bet were not! I do not need this crap so not going to bother again, which wont bother them, but hope they get their just deserts!!! those that think that Entain is this great outfit will change their mind when they lose their jobs! This Shannon bloke is missing in action! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 4 hours ago, Brodie said: Chief, there are clearly many things that Brodie doesnt understand nowadays! People bought into the BGP betting fund that was promoted on the TAB web site!! There was a loss of 25k on the night but the gambling business run by the TAB said hey, you lost money so we will give the money lost back to everyone! It is just blatant BS when all other punters who wager that are not in the BGP syndicate do not get any losses refunded!!! The decision to do this is just another unethical decision made by the TAB/Entain and as far as Brodie is concerned they can go get one in them! I am over this very dishonest business, and it is not the first time that some have been reimbursed for a losing bet and others who had the same bet were not! I do not need this crap so not going to bother again, which wont bother them, but hope they get their just deserts!!! those that think that Entain is this great outfit will change their mind when they lose their jobs! This Shannon bloke is missing in action! Do I take it you didn't have a share in BGP Brodie? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 14 minutes ago, Doomed said: Do I take it you didn't have a share in BGP Brodie? No need to buy a share in there with that mob. We could go with a BOAY team , just chip in $1000 each , make sure we get the TAB refund for any losing Big bets ,(and collect the winning Ones) some more good publicity for Entain TAB. maybe could be called BGT . BOYS GET the TROTS . 😁😆😂 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAB For Ever Posted April 13 Author Share Posted April 13 13 hours ago, Gammalite said: I fail to believe Any Betting agency would 'refund' losing bets . Large ones or not. I do accept they will make exceptions to the 'restriction' rule on the size of bets , for regular customers who promise to make regular 'large' bets. this is the privilege they get. esp BGP Everyday punters would not get that leeway. is like a casino high rollers privilege. with the normal gaming tables having tight limits. I was wondering how many 'customers' do BGP have involved in their bets ? i.e How many people are invested in those large bets each week? approx. Fair question Gamma.......the BGP movement in my opinion has been fantastic and really has encouraged folk from all round NZ to learn more about racing and wagering. But as those who run it have found out it has really 'fired' up the 'non-believers' who object to some of the special treatment they have received from the TAB....it great advertising ! I speak from some experience as I have supported them from early days ,attended many functions , followed their videos/interviews/ selections etc and spoken with those who also participate.And I usually take a 'ticket' in their betting syndicates . I was a member too which had an annual subscription to help them set up and get running. So I have the merchandise , the polo shirt , the red sox and other gidgets. I think their betting tickets used to be $100 but now it is as much as you choose and the financial side done thru TAB account. So last night ,even though going to races I threw a lazy $50 into the pool and got it back by about 10pm last night. I think there were over 4000 in it last night ....this was the first time it had had a National fund on Harness thru TAB.There was something smaller at last Harness Jewels. I think it got too big for a few guys to do in their spare time so they only really target a few 'big' days ,with the Karaka Day the biggest by far. I think they had 20,000 get involved as well as having a function on course for about 500 with lunch and beer etc.When attending those I get to speak to folk from all over NZ , mainly under 35's and a lot of females etc. But the haters don't like it.......not only do they not like it IMO the just pure jealous. BGP have had shares in horses[bought one at yearling sales] and created interest in all facets of Horse racing. Of course their big Cup week syndicate also bet on the Cup week doggies ,all 3 x Codes. The youngish organisers follow the codes closely there are harness syndicators , Harness administrators , Jockey managers and a few sensible types who understand governance and are professionals in their real jobs......they send out regular tips etc and generally are pretty good. When they lose ,the haters gloat and have a field day. My post here will be critiqued and the haters will hate ....but they ,the average punters are loving all these Bonus bets they receive , all the boosts ,power plays and options available. Entain and the TAB are trying to attract more 'younger' and new people to wagering and are using every marketing/promotional strategy they can think of. Last night , similar to Cup week and big racedays they have staff going around and offering a survey....with the chance of a lucky bonus bet .....I think it one question ,but the idea is to get folk to open up an account and on every occasion ,BINGO....within in the hour someone at my table gets a text and a Bonus bet ...genius ! They didn't give me money last night.....they topped up my bet to its original ,knowing that the warm fuzzies from that would motivate me to bet more happily and joyfully today....and I did...my $50 lasted all day and it now zero. Can't wait till next time ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 1 hour ago, Doomed said: Do I take it you didn't have a share in BGP Brodie? Correct. I have no problem with BGP, If it gets new punters into the industry and increases turnover then it has to be good! However the way the TAB has treated punters unequally for many years is abhorrent and should not be happening! This BS of gifting BGP the $ that they lost is just another example of treating people differently. They should not be getting away with it!! Thing is they operate dishonestly and Entain come over and take over the TAB, Dean Shannon from Ozzie walks around like Entain is the saviour of racing in NZ, and it is all smoke and mirrors! All restricted punters ask for is to be treated fairly and equally like everyone else in business has to be! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 (edited) 8 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: But the haters don't like it.......not only do they not like it IMO the just pure jealous. when they lose ,the haters gloat and have a field day. My post here will be critiqued and the haters will hate ... For someone who seems to think they are in touch with how the average punter thinks,i'm pretty disappointed you have such a low opinion of so many. You know,when you make multiple references to the haters and the jealous,i really do think it underlines the weakness of your arguments in addressing the reasons given for the lack of wisdom in the gift to the boys get paid,that allowed a total refund. Name calling is a classic sign of a weak argument and frustration.In your case i would say mainly the former as relates to this issue. What youv'e done with your response is divert attention to the positives of boys get paid,which sure,does have some relevance.But i would point out,No One on here has ever said they didn't recognise and agree with those points so hopefully you grudgingly accept that. How about this. I'm interested in how you can rationally come to the conclusion that there are many haters,jealous,gloating people when it comes to the boys get paid. Can you explain what it is that makes you think that. Have you had some type of experiences which make you categorise with a broad brush so many.I'm genuinelly interested in how you justify such sweeping statement. hey,i'm not denying that for some they may look at the boys get paid and think hey i can select better than them,or glad i didn't put my money in that syndicate because i prefer my own picksm or even i hope they lose.People are people,i get that. But you've taken it further with the words you've used. Personally i've been called all of the above words you have used on here over different things and not once have i thought the person calling me those names has any understanding of how i think or what i am. I think if they had,then they wouldn't be calling me names,but i've learnt now that they still would because thats all they have to counter something i have written about.Can't address the reasoning,so name call to divert. Finally i can honestly say,good luck when you invest with the boys get paid,i hope they do take the bookies to the cleaners,as i like seeing any punter win,as long as they are working under the same rules as everyone else.Whether you believe thats genuine,i can't change that,nor want to,i just want to understand how you think to get to that point. Edited April 13 by the galah 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 9 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: But as those who run it have found out it has really 'fired' up the 'non-believers' who object to some of the special treatment they have received from the TAB....it great advertising ! How can it be great advertising when it alienates your core customer? Surely there are marketing options that don't do that and offer a better return on investment. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 9 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: I think it got too big for a few guys to do in their spare time so they only really target a few 'big' days ,with the Karaka Day the biggest by far. I think they had 20,000 get involved as well as having a function on course for about 500 with lunch and beer etc.When attending those I get to speak to folk from all over NZ , mainly under 35's and a lot of females etc. But can't they do all that without the TAB subsidising their bets? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 9 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: BGP have had shares in horses[bought one at yearling sales] and created interest in all facets of Horse racing. Of course their big Cup week syndicate also bet on the Cup week doggies ,all 3 x Codes. So? Any number of syndicates do the same thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 13 Share Posted April 13 9 hours ago, TAB For Ever said: My post here will be critiqued and the haters will hate ....but they ,the average punters are loving all these Bonus bets they receive , all the boosts ,power plays and options available. Most serious punters know that most of the promotions are cons targeted at the gullible. Take a boosted bet for example. A classic supermarket ploy where you advertise that the recommended retail price is $10 but have it on special at $5 when no one sells it at $10 ever. So a boosted price is just the real price with the TAB hoping the mug newbies buy at the non boosted price. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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