Flagship uberalles Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 2 hours ago, mardigras said: If that is the betting side of things (as opposed to the code side of things) 1. Get out of commingling and all associated agreements with TABCORP. 2. Reduce the event schedule to be only NZ racing plus say 20 - 30 premium events off-shore per week. 3. Change the laws to allow betting operators in NZ to offer fixed odds (don't allow them to offer tote derivative based options). Set up race field fees on profit to charge them for making money from NZ racing information. 4. Remove fixed odds from NZ TAB racing 5. Offer reduced takeouts - especially on NZ racing Basically going back to how the tab was in the latest 80s early 90s when Saturday afternoon they would have selected races from Australian main tracks, our local meetings always had a great turnover back then and decent pools. Why do they continue flogging this dead dog which is American racing and the likes of Tokyo keiba which 9/10 times isn't even covered by trackside, where there is no form guide and no money in the pools! All this extra racing incuding 90% of the Aussie crap is surely detrimental to our local product. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 People only bet on the dross because it's in their face so much. Quality is better than quantity. When the commingling agreement forced then to take 40k extra races, they said it was all going to increase tote turnover. I did an OIA request in 2009/2010 to get the full breakdown of all betting figures by code/jurisdiction/tote and fixed odds. The rate of decline in tote that was happening pre commingling continued after commingling unchanged, with all the new races to bet on (and the supposed advantage of betting into bigger pools). All it did was spread the NZ betting around and took more away from the NZ pools. That has continued to the point where with the impact of fixed odds included, it has brought about the demise of tote betting practically on NZ races. Which makes the majority now fixed odds. Lower margins, more overheads, costs for betting done on off-shore. Yep, a true winner. Compared to building the pools by way of appropriate pricing - making them attractive to punters. Promote the racing with better coverage. And get the codes to deliver on the areas of improved customer interaction and improved trust in the integrity of the racing. So that new punters develop an interest (that grows the betting aspect) in NZ racing which we control - and other jurisdictions don't get to tell us what to do and how much they are going to charge us for doing it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 2 hours ago, JJ Flash said: This is obviously above your level based on your replies As obvious as UItimate Sniper? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted December 16, 2019 Share Posted December 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Happy Sunrise said: As obvious as UItimate Sniper? Of course provided you have some semblance of comprehension.? Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 8 hours ago, Flagship uberalles said: You have to understand o.j. makes things up as he goes along......just like his constant names change! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted December 17, 2019 Author Share Posted December 17, 2019 8 hours ago, mardigras said: People only bet on the dross because it's in their face so much. Quality is better than quantity. When the commingling agreement forced then to take 40k extra races, they said it was all going to increase tote turnover. I did an OIA request in 2009/2010 to get the full breakdown of all betting figures by code/jurisdiction/tote and fixed odds. The rate of decline in tote that was happening pre commingling continued after commingling unchanged, with all the new races to bet on (and the supposed advantage of betting into bigger pools). All it did was spread the NZ betting around and took more away from the NZ pools. That has continued to the point where with the impact of fixed odds included, it has brought about the demise of tote betting practically on NZ races. Which makes the majority now fixed odds. Lower margins, more overheads, costs for betting done on off-shore. Yep, a true winner. Compared to building the pools by way of appropriate pricing - making them attractive to punters. Promote the racing with better coverage. And get the codes to deliver on the areas of improved customer interaction and improved trust in the integrity of the racing. So that new punters develop an interest (that grows the betting aspect) in NZ racing which we control - and other jurisdictions don't get to tell us what to do and how much they are going to charge us for doing it. I doubt that there are very many new punters coming thru, certainly not enough to replace the ones that are being lost! There are possibly more sports punters that are betting more but unfortunately for the racing industry they are being diminished by the actions of the TAB! No one except the odd plonker on here, could support what is going on! Wait for it, Ranga, what have you got? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 7 minutes ago, Brodie said: I doubt that there are very many new punters coming thru, certainly not enough to replace the ones that are being lost! There are possibly more sports punters that are betting more but unfortunately for the racing industry they are being diminished by the actions of the TAB! No one except the odd plonker on here, could support what is going on! I'd agree - especially since my post was about what they should have done 12 years ago, but didn't do. I'd say the boat has well and truly sailed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globederby12 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 This may not have much relevance to these arguments but I thought it may add some interest. I have in front of me a Trotting Year Book from 1974/75 ,which I am going to donate to the NZ Trotting Hall of fame, along with some other memorabilia (if I can find them) In the front it has club turnovers , stakes, and Tote Turnover. There were 47 clubs, with 161 meetings and 1596 races. Total stakes paid was $ 2,921,363 On-course Turnover $ 32,639,893 Off-course Turnover $ 48,363,319 Grand total of $ 81,003.212 Not sure how that stacks up against today's figures but it sure looked in a healthy position. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagship uberalles Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 4 hours ago, Rangatira said: He may as well be, he's pretended to be everyone else! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 On 15/12/2019 at 3:47 PM, Brodie said: Don’t give a rats if they don’t take any notice, but my prerogative to continue to point out that the TAB don’t treat all punters the same. why should the tab treat all punters the same ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 On 15/12/2019 at 3:47 PM, Brodie said: They restrict certain winning punters and take large wagers from known losing punters! that makes perfect commonsense anything other than that and they would need their heads read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 48 minutes ago, Rangatira said: They restrict certain winning punters and take large wagers from known losing punters! Yes and the casino should payout triple your money on red and the black as well 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagship uberalles Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 53 minutes ago, Rangatira said: that makes perfect commonsense anything other than that and they would need their heads read But it is more or less saying we are happy to take all your money, but don't win more than you gamble on a regular basis or we will stop you!! They shouldn't be advertised as a gambling organization it should just be called "losers only agency board" a government run (owned by the tax payer) organisation should not be biased. gambling means gambling on both sides. If someone is clever enough to make winning a habit good luck to them. I cant recall any adverts that the tab put on the television in years gone by of people looking gloomy and leaving a tab or racecourse with empty pockets, they were advertising winner's !!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Flagship uberalles said: But it is more or less saying we are happy to take all your money, but don't win more than you gamble on a regular basis or we will stop you!! They shouldn't be advertised as a gambling organization it should just be called "losers only agency board" a government run (owned by the tax payer) organisation should not be biased. gambling means gambling on both sides. If someone is clever enough to make winning a habit good luck to them. I cant recall any adverts that the tab put on the television in years gone by of people looking gloomy and leaving a tab or racecourse with empty pockets, they were advertising winner's !!!! i have not heard of anyone being stopped for winning but i guess it may have happened prudent to restrict the persistent winners from fixed odds betting hopefully they don't restrict those backing $1.50 shots cos they wont remain ahead for too long 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagship uberalles Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rangatira said: i have not heard of anyone being stopped for winning but i guess it may have happened prudent to restrict the persistent winners from fixed odds betting hopefully they don't restrict those backing $1.50 shots cos they wont remain ahead for too long I'm going to implement my own restrictions on the tab, for every $1 I lose I'm only going to let them take 10c .....ahhhh still a big loss for the year, but don't have to expain to the wife that the money went to pay for a distant cousins funeral that died 10x this year. ..only once will do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 On 17/12/2019 at 7:31 AM, JJ Flash said: Keep up Brodie , there is no such thing as the Racing board anymore and has not been for some time. It has been replaced by RITA and cost cutting is already well underway under the general direction of the Board Im sure that will please you just as it does to those with an interest in all things NZ racing. Come in Ranga, i can see why you tease him all the time? Greg no teasing intended on my part just trying to make him an honest man 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) It is just blatant BS that the NZ TAB is allowed to treat punters differently. Are you allowed to treat people differently due to the colour of your skin? Are we allowed to treat people differently due to their religion? Are we allowed to treat people due to their age? The answer is no we are not allowed to and yet this monopoly the NZ TAB is allowed to differentiate and segregate some punters from the others due to being more successful. The NZ TAB will only let some win a pittance whereas other punters are allowed to lose as much as possible. Just because this is what they do does not make it right and I hope they get done by the punters each and every day but we know they won’t, because they will continue just to take wagers from the punters who continue to lose. I don’t need that crap but will certainly continue to point out the practice that they restrict who they want to. Edited December 18, 2019 by Brodie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 31 minutes ago, Brodie said: It is just blatant BS that the NZ TAB is allowed to treat punters differently. Are you allowed to treat people differently due to the colour of your skin? Are we allowed to treat people differently due to their religion? Are we allowed to treat people due to their age? The answer is no we are not allowed to and yet this monopoly the NZ TAB is allowed to differentiate and segregate some punters from the others due to being more successful. The NZ TAB will only let some win a pittance whereas other punters are allowed to lose as much as possible. Just because this is what they do does not make it right and I hope they get done by the punters each and every day but we know they won’t, because they will continue just to take wagers from the punters who continue to lose. I don’t need that crap but will certainly continue to point out the practice that they restrict who they want to. what is this nonsense please add a splash or two to your plymouth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 17 hours ago, Brodie said: It is just blatant BS that the NZ TAB is allowed to treat punters differently. Are you allowed to treat people differently due to the colour of your skin? Are we allowed to treat people differently due to their religion? Are we allowed to treat people due to their age? The answer is no we are not allowed to and yet this monopoly the NZ TAB is allowed to differentiate and segregate some punters from the others due to being more successful. The NZ TAB will only let some win a pittance whereas other punters are allowed to lose as much as possible. Just because this is what they do does not make it right and I hope they get done by the punters each and every day but we know they won’t, because they will continue just to take wagers from the punters who continue to lose. I don’t need that crap but will certainly continue to point out the practice that they restrict who they want to. Are businesses allowed to refuse service to customers? The answer is yes! As long as they are not refusing them based on age, sexual orientation,race or disability. Now if the tab were saying we are not taking bets from Brodie because he is mentally disabled old fart who keeps on whingeing about our restrictions you would have a case against them, otherwise any business refusing service is quite legal if kept within the boundaries outlined above. They do cover themselves again in their terms and conditions saying: 7.4. The Board may refuse to accept any bet placed by you without giving any reason. The Board will use its best endeavours to communicate to you that it has not accepted the bet. The Board will not be liable to you for any loss you may suffer as a consequence of refusing to accept a bet made by you. In other words if you don't like it JOG ON! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted December 19, 2019 Author Share Posted December 19, 2019 6 hours ago, Nowornever said: Are businesses allowed to refuse service to customers? The answer is yes! As long as they are not refusing them based on age, sexual orientation,race or disability. Now if the tab were saying we are not taking bets from Brodie because he is mentally disabled old fart who keeps on whingeing about our restrictions you would have a case against them, otherwise any business refusing service is quite legal if kept within the boundaries outlined above. They do cover themselves again in their terms and conditions saying: 7.4. The Board may refuse to accept any bet placed by you without giving any reason. The Board will use its best endeavours to communicate to you that it has not accepted the bet. The Board will not be liable to you for any loss you may suffer as a consequence of refusing to accept a bet made by you. In other words if you don't like it JOG ON! So on what basis are they refusing punters? The fact that there rules may refuse to accept any bet without reason doesn’t make it right!!! Anyway, easier money to be made investing nowadays than trying to beat the fixed odds markets and restrictions. Punters and race goers are going to continue to give the racing game away and there are bugger all new people with any money coming in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 39 minutes ago, Brodie said: So on what basis are they refusing punters? On the same basis as all the other bookmakers in the world. You do not match their guidelines for managing risk. Hence they do not want your business. Seems pretty straightforward to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted December 19, 2019 Author Share Posted December 19, 2019 30 minutes ago, Nowornever said: On the same basis as all the other bookmakers in the world. You do not match their guidelines for managing risk. Hence they do not want your business. Seems pretty straightforward to me. They aren’t getting my business at the moment!!!! Cant be bothered with the Tossers!!! Still won’t stop me pointing out that what they are doing is just not right ethically, morally and any other ally!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 On 18/12/2019 at 4:02 PM, Brodie said: Are we allowed to treat people due to their age? treat people for what exactly ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted December 19, 2019 Author Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rangatira said: treat people for what exactly ? FFS Ranga, differently. Are you just a Wanker for the fun of it??? Sorry, Chief, had to be said! Edited December 19, 2019 by Brodie 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 8 hours ago, Brodie said: FFS Ranga, differently. Are you just a Wanker for the fun of it??? Sorry, Chief, had to be said! i thought it might be what you meant but since you had edited it seemed less likely so i sort clarification so it would prove more challenging for you to move the goalposts on this occasion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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