Murray Fish Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 6 3:41 pm BARNESWOOD FARM TRENTHAM STAKES OPN-SW&P 2100m - $70,000Open /Close # Silk Form Horse 1 09749 Jacksstar(8g Zed - Star Guest) 2 34483 Dolcetto(7g Per Incanto (USA) - Our Shiraz) 3 30172 Fiscal Fantasy (AUS)(5m Skilled (AUS) - Villa Igea (AUS)) 4 00101 Camino Rocoso(6g Shocking (AUS) - Our Centasea (AUS)) 5 X8025 Hunta Pence(7g No Excuse Needed (GB) - Vanitas) 6 74182 Sergeant Blast(7g Darci Brahma - Glittering Girl) 7 X2132 Masetto(4g Cape Blanco (IRE) - Passchendaele) 8 29768 King Of The Dance (AUS)(5g Animal Kingdom (USA) - Spirited Dancer (IRE)) 9 85506 Kamanda Lincoln(6g Savabeel (AUS) - Our Careyes (IRE)) 10 35215 Dee And Gee(6m Darci Brahma - Gabana) 11 38616 Artiste(6m Mastercraftsman (IRE) - Maidjeu) 12 62401 Amorata(7m Per Incanto (USA) - Alyssum) FIELDS QUICK TRIALS GEAR Barrier Stats ›Download PDF › Draw RTG WGT Jockey Trainer Win Place 3 80 57.0 Michael McNab Gary Vile - - 7 99 55.5 Rosie Myers Sylvia Kay - - 4 98 55.0 Leith Innes Frank Ritchie - - 8 91 55.0 Chris Johnson John & Karen Parsons - - 6 90 55.0 Samantha Collett Patrick Campbell - - 11 88 55.0 Lisa Allpress Sam Lennox - - 2 81 55.0 Cameron Lammas Michael Moroney & Pam Gerard - - 5 73 55.0 Ryan Elliot Terrill Charles & Peter Corbett - - 9 71 55.0 Sam Weatherley (a) Lisa Latta - - 10 95 54.0 Leah Hemi Terrill Charles & Peter Corbett - - 1 84 53.0 Craig Grylls Murray Baker & Andrew Forsman - - 12 77 53.0 Robert Hannam Roydon Bergerson - - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Fish Posted January 8, 2020 Author Share Posted January 8, 2020 doh, can't get the format to post in a readable way... https://loveracing.nz/raceinfo/48699/meeting-overview.aspx The race I'm asking about is the Trentham Stakes. Jackstar rating 80, weight 57kg Dolcetta rating 99, weight 55kg Dee and Gee rating 95, weight 54kg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 8, 2020 Share Posted January 8, 2020 Set Weights & Penalties. Jackstar a G2 winner earns a penalty. Other horses get different penalties depending on black type since date X. One of Thomass' favourite subjects. Isn't based on rating, based on those performances. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Yip. Not a handicap so ratings irrelevant. 7.4Set Weight and Penalty (SWP) RacesIn SWP races weights are determined by a system of fixed penalties for winning performances. These penalties are set out in the race conditions. Conditions may vary from one SWP race to another and are advertised in the Thoroughbred Racing Monthly (TRM)magazine. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All The Aces Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Murray it is the same for the Anniversary on Saturday. In both races the colts and geldings all get 55kgs and the fillies and mares 53kgs. If anything has won a black type race in the previous 18 months then they cop a penalty. Jacksstar won the G2 Awapuni Gold Cup in March last year and the penalty for winning a G2 is 2kgs hence his 57kgs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 That's right Fish...it's a tragic JOKE of a system 3kg's for a G 1...within 18 Months....18 months and one day?? NOTHING... Only a dickhead who goes to dope smoking mardigras could come up with such a crazy mofo concept 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Fish Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Thomass said: Only a dickhead who goes to dope smoking mardigras could come up with such a crazy mofo concept A suggested goal for you this year... try and really focus on actual needed criticism on 'things racing'. I'm 100% sure you would curry favour with more if you go down that track. ps. Mardi, you got some good stuff Edited January 10, 2020 by Murray Fish Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Murray Fish said: A suggested goal for you this year... try and really focus on actual needed criticism on 'things racing'. I'm 100% sure you would curry favour with more if you go that that track. Soz Fish...that had nothing to do with you smokin'... Do you agree with the 18 month limit..then one day nek minute NOTHING though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Thomass said: Soz Fish...that had nothing to do with you smokin'... Do you agree with the 18 month limit..then one day nek minute NOTHING though? Like the Melbourne Cup qualifying rules, do you mean? One day being the possible difference between having qualified for the race - or not. It's pretty simple, just like SW&P, it's called the conditions the race is run under. If you don't like the conditions, don't enter your horse. Edited January 10, 2020 by mardigras 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 SW&P is a stupidity and there is no place for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Fred said: SW&P is a stupidity and there is no place for it. I don't disagree but I'm also sure there are plenty of owners that like them. Don't enter a horse in them and don't bet on them is the easy answer, or lobby to have them removed. Edited January 10, 2020 by mardigras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 There's only a mere A$4m up for grabs at the Gold Coast today running under race conditions where supposedly there is no place for them. Seem to have pretty decent noms/acceptances as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Fish Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 22 hours ago, Thomass said: Do you agree with the 18 month limit..then one day nek minute NOTHING though? To be honest, my style of betting has changed where the races like this have not been that attractive! often if there has been a horse which appeals! then it's way under the odds.. give me WFA or set weights for 3yr etc... re NZ Handicaps, they more and more offer le$$ interest! gone are the large interest in always trying to find the winner of the 3200 races... esp Auckland Cup and races like Railway... way gone now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Fish Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 4 hours ago, Fred said: SW&P is a stupidity and there is no place for it. I would love to have seen the 'logic' behind going this way??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murray Fish Posted January 10, 2020 Author Share Posted January 10, 2020 3 hours ago, mardigras said: don't bet on them is the easy answer, yip, that be my tip! Re Betting in general: I'm always amused regarding our ever struggled with 'cognitive bias', with betting, I think we attach some winning logic to some historical wins! when I first started betting it was into very much into local pools! who had limited information! I still so recall being at Addinton (early 70's) and the Odds would get put up the Main Tote Board, NO ONE knew what those odds would be! you had then 35 minutes to change them! to finish with a Tip before the race!!! I Bet I Enjoy the NZ G1 Today! Regardless of whom wins! lol! Though I do have one in mind! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopia Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 15 hours ago, mardigras said: I don't disagree but I'm also sure there are plenty of owners that like them. Don't enter a horse in them and don't bet on them is the easy answer, or lobby to have them removed. Someone should have told the connections of Germanicus all of this...jeeze what a performance! Comes from near last on the turn, gets up to win, over a second faster than Travelling Light in the Group 1... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 The Rip van Winkle progeny seem to have really started to show some quality, after a slowish start. Have followed Germanicus for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy ravioli Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 12 minutes ago, Freda said: The Rip van Winkle progeny seem to have really started to show some quality, after a slowish start. Have followed Germanicus for a while. they're 'sleepers'..Freda.? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 8 hours ago, Kopia said: Someone should have told the connections of Germanicus all of this...jeeze what a performance! Comes from near last on the turn, gets up to win, over a second faster than Travelling Light in the Group 1... Not sure why you directed that at me Kopia. Whilst I agreed the method of 'weighting' the field is stupid, there seems to be a place for them since horses keep getting entered for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopia Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 34 minutes ago, mardigras said: Not sure why you directed that at me Kopia. Whilst I agreed the method of 'weighting' the field is stupid, there seems to be a place for them since horses keep getting entered for them. My bad mate. I misread your post. I'll kick myself in the ghoolies☺️ 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomass Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) On 10/01/2020 at 4:14 PM, mardigras said: Like the Melbourne Cup qualifying rules, do you mean? One day being the possible difference between having qualified for the race - or not. It's pretty simple, just like SW&P, it's called the conditions the race is run under. If you don't like the conditions, don't enter your horse. What a ridiculous argument...but you make plenty of stupid statements THe SW&F All penalty Races were adopted to appease the deniers aka 'Breeders' that we have far too many Black Type races run beyond the appropriate international level... ...at the expense of Handicap racing...which encourages higher levels of wagering... ...so NZTR bent over and asked what more they could do to help.... ...So against the Handicapping report...they also rubber stamped Maiden races as SW... ...when Handicap races are where it's at to encourage Wagering...dickheads Edited January 11, 2020 by Thomass 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, Thomass said: What a ridiculous argument...but you make plenty of stupid statements THe SW&F All penalty Races were adopted to appease the deniers aka 'Breeders' that we have far too many Black Type races run beyond the appropriate international level... ...at the expense of Handicap racing...which encourages higher levels of wagering... ...so NZTR bent over and asked what more they could do to help.... ...So against the Handicapping report...they also rubber stamped Maiden races as SW... ...when Handicap races are where it's at to encourage Wagering...dickheads Still confused I see. I wasn't arguing about whether they should have them. I was responding to your comment on whether 18 months versus 18 months and one day being different made sense. Which it does make reasonable sense. Can you share the actual wagering numbers on handicap, SW, SW&P and WFA racing with us please. I'd be interested in seeing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 I won't ask Thomaas this question has I'll get a Dickhead answer preceded by a Dickhead and ending with a Dickhead. Mardigras: How does SW&P discourage punters? For that matter how does Handicap racing encourage punters to bet more? In my opinion there are bigger issues with the handicapping system that would discourage punters e.g. the 2kg female allowance, the limited upper and lower weight limits and the corresponding lack of spread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 2 hours ago, Thomass said: What a ridiculous argument...but you make plenty of stupid statements THe SW&F All penalty Races were adopted to appease the deniers aka 'Breeders' that we have far too many Black Type races run beyond the appropriate international level... ...at the expense of Handicap racing...which encourages higher levels of wagering... ...so NZTR bent over and asked what more they could do to help.... ...So against the Handicapping report...they also rubber stamped Maiden races as SW... ...when Handicap races are where it's at to encourage Wagering...dickheads Yes. We've done this Thommo. You are right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Mardigras: How does SW&P discourage punters? For that matter how does Handicap racing encourage punters to bet more? In my opinion there are bigger issues with the handicapping system that would discourage punters e.g. the 2kg female allowance, the limited upper and lower weight limits and the corresponding lack of spread. It could be that way if the races were considered more competitive. If a horse is majorly advantaged by way of SW&P or WFA, then the relative interest in the race can dwindle - especially in areas such as tote betting. Fixed odds, probably not to the same degree - which would be more dependant on the competitiveness of the pricing. In a highly competitive market (not race), where there is a short priced runner, betting will be higher. Such as on a competitive betfair market with a 1.10 chance. betting will be greater than a race with a 5 favourite - generally on a site such as betfair. On the tote, the $5 favourite race is likely to be more attractive to punters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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