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Murray Fish

Can someone explain the logic of this handicap???

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6 3:41 pm

BARNESWOOD FARM TRENTHAM STAKES

OPN-SW&P 2100m - $70,000Open /Close

 

#

Silk

Form

Horse

1

09749

Jacksstar(8g Zed - Star Guest)

2

34483

Dolcetto(7g Per Incanto (USA) - Our Shiraz)

3

30172

Fiscal Fantasy (AUS)(5m Skilled (AUS) - Villa Igea (AUS))

4

00101

Camino Rocoso(6g Shocking (AUS) - Our Centasea (AUS))

5

X8025

Hunta Pence(7g No Excuse Needed (GB) - Vanitas)

6

74182

Sergeant Blast(7g Darci Brahma - Glittering Girl)

7

X2132

Masetto(4g Cape Blanco (IRE) - Passchendaele)

8

29768

King Of The Dance (AUS)(5g Animal Kingdom (USA) - Spirited Dancer (IRE))

9

85506

Kamanda Lincoln(6g Savabeel (AUS) - Our Careyes (IRE))

10

35215

Dee And Gee(6m Darci Brahma - Gabana)

11

38616

Artiste(6m Mastercraftsman (IRE) - Maidjeu)

12

62401

Amorata(7m Per Incanto (USA) - Alyssum)

FIELDS

QUICK

TRIALS

GEAR

Barrier Stats ›Download PDF ›  

Draw

RTG

WGT

Jockey

Trainer

Win

Place

3

80

57.0

Michael McNab

Gary Vile

-

-

7

99

55.5

Rosie Myers

Sylvia Kay

-

-

4

98

55.0

Leith Innes

Frank Ritchie

-

-

8

91

55.0

Chris Johnson

John & Karen Parsons

-

-

6

90

55.0

Samantha Collett

Patrick Campbell

-

-

11

88

55.0

Lisa Allpress

Sam Lennox

-

-

2

81

55.0

Cameron Lammas

Michael Moroney & Pam Gerard

-

-

5

73

55.0

Ryan Elliot

Terrill Charles & Peter Corbett

-

-

9

71

55.0

Sam Weatherley (a)

Lisa Latta

-

-

10

95

54.0

Leah Hemi

Terrill Charles & Peter Corbett

-

-

1

84

53.0

Craig Grylls

Murray Baker & Andrew Forsman

-

-

12

77

53.0

Robert Hannam

Roydon Bergerson

-

-

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Set Weights & Penalties.

Jackstar a G2 winner earns a penalty. Other horses get different penalties depending on black type since date X.

One of Thomass' favourite subjects.

Isn't based on rating, based on those performances.

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Yip. Not a handicap so ratings irrelevant.

7.4Set Weight and Penalty (SWP) RacesIn SWP races weights are determined by a system of fixed penalties for winning performances. These penalties are set out in the race conditions. Conditions may vary from one SWP race to another and are advertised in the Thoroughbred Racing Monthly (TRM)magazine.

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Murray it is the same for the Anniversary on Saturday.

In both races the colts and geldings all get 55kgs and the fillies and mares 53kgs.

If anything has won a black type race in the previous 18 months then they cop a penalty.

Jacksstar won the G2 Awapuni Gold Cup in March last year and the penalty for winning a G2 is 2kgs hence his 57kgs.     

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That's right Fish...it's a tragic JOKE of a system

3kg's for a G 1...within 18 Months....18 months and one day??

NOTHING...

Only a dickhead who goes to dope smoking mardigras could come up with such a crazy mofo concept

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1 hour ago, Thomass said:

Only a dickhead who goes to dope smoking mardigras could come up with such a crazy mofo concept

A suggested goal for you this year...  try and really focus on actual needed criticism on 'things racing'. 

I'm 100% sure you would curry favour with more if you go down that track. :)

 

ps. Mardi, you got some good stuff :)

 

 

Edited by Murray Fish

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2 minutes ago, Murray Fish said:

A suggested goal for you this year...  try and really focus on actual needed criticism on 'things racing'. 

I'm 100% sure you would curry favour with more if you go that that track. :)

 

Soz Fish...that had nothing to do with you smokin'...

Do you agree with the 18 month limit..then one day nek minute NOTHING though?

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2 hours ago, Thomass said:

Soz Fish...that had nothing to do with you smokin'...

Do you agree with the 18 month limit..then one day nek minute NOTHING though?

Like the Melbourne Cup qualifying rules, do you mean? One day being the possible difference between having qualified for the race - or not.

It's pretty simple, just like SW&P,  it's called the conditions the race is run under. If you don't like the conditions, don't enter your horse.

Edited by mardigras
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18 minutes ago, Fred said:

SW&P is a stupidity and there is no place for it.

I don't disagree but I'm also sure there are plenty of owners that like them. Don't enter a horse in them and don't bet on them is the easy answer, or lobby to have them removed.

Edited by mardigras

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There's only a mere A$4m up for grabs at the Gold Coast today running under race conditions where supposedly there is no place for them. Seem to have pretty decent noms/acceptances as well.

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22 hours ago, Thomass said:

Do you agree with the 18 month limit..then one day nek minute NOTHING though?

To be honest, my style of betting has changed where the races like this have not been that attractive! often if there has been a horse which appeals! then it's way under the odds.. give me WFA or set weights for 3yr etc... 

re NZ Handicaps, they more and more offer le$$ interest! gone are the large interest in always trying to find the winner of the 3200 races... esp Auckland Cup and races like Railway... way gone now...

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4 hours ago, Fred said:

SW&P is a stupidity and there is no place for it.

I would love to have seen the 'logic' behind going this way???

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3 hours ago, mardigras said:

don't bet on them is the easy answer,

yip, that be my tip!

 

Re Betting in general: I'm always amused regarding our ever struggled with 'cognitive bias', with betting, I think we attach some winning logic to some historical wins! when I first started betting it was into very much into local pools!  who had limited information! I still so recall being at Addinton (early 70's) and the Odds would get put up the Main Tote Board, NO ONE knew what those odds would be! you had then 35 minutes to change them!  to finish with a Tip before the race!!! I Bet I Enjoy the NZ G1 Today! Regardless of whom wins! lol! Though I do have one in mind! :)

 

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15 hours ago, mardigras said:

I don't disagree but I'm also sure there are plenty of owners that like them. Don't enter a horse in them and don't bet on them is the easy answer, or lobby to have them removed.

Someone should have told the connections of Germanicus all of this...jeeze what a performance! Comes from near last on the turn, gets up to win, over a second faster than Travelling Light in the Group 1...

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The Rip van Winkle progeny seem to have really started to show some quality, after a slowish start.

Have followed Germanicus for a while.

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12 minutes ago, Freda said:

The Rip van Winkle progeny seem to have really started to show some quality, after a slowish start.

Have followed Germanicus for a while.

they're 'sleepers'..Freda.😛

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8 hours ago, Kopia said:

Someone should have told the connections of Germanicus all of this...jeeze what a performance! Comes from near last on the turn, gets up to win, over a second faster than Travelling Light in the Group 1...

Not sure why you directed that at me Kopia. Whilst I agreed the method of 'weighting' the field is stupid, there seems to be a place for them since horses keep getting entered for them.

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34 minutes ago, mardigras said:

Not sure why you directed that at me Kopia. Whilst I agreed the method of 'weighting' the field is stupid, there seems to be a place for them since horses keep getting entered for them.

My bad mate. I misread your post. I'll kick myself in the ghoolies☺️

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On 10/01/2020 at 4:14 PM, mardigras said:

Like the Melbourne Cup qualifying rules, do you mean? One day being the possible difference between having qualified for the race - or not.

It's pretty simple, just like SW&P,  it's called the conditions the race is run under. If you don't like the conditions, don't enter your horse.

What a ridiculous argument...but you make plenty of stupid statements 

THe SW&F All penalty Races were adopted to appease the deniers aka 'Breeders' that we have far too many Black Type races run beyond the appropriate international level...

...at the expense of Handicap racing...which encourages higher levels of wagering...

...so NZTR bent over and asked what more  they could do to help....

...So against the Handicapping report...they also rubber stamped Maiden races as SW...

...when Handicap races are where it's at to encourage Wagering...dickheads

Edited by Thomass
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3 minutes ago, Thomass said:

What a ridiculous argument...but you make plenty of stupid statements 

THe SW&F All penalty Races were adopted to appease the deniers aka 'Breeders' that we have far too many Black Type races run beyond the appropriate international level...

...at the expense of Handicap racing...which encourages higher levels of wagering...

...so NZTR bent over and asked what more  they could do to help....

...So against the Handicapping report...they also rubber stamped Maiden races as SW...

...when Handicap races are where it's at to encourage Wagering...dickheads

Still confused I see.

I wasn't arguing about whether they should have them. I was responding to your comment on whether 18 months versus 18 months and one day being different made sense. Which it does make reasonable sense.

Can you share the actual wagering numbers on handicap, SW, SW&P and WFA racing with us please. I'd be interested in seeing them.

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I won't ask Thomaas this question has I'll get a Dickhead answer preceded by a Dickhead and ending with a Dickhead.  

Mardigras:  How does SW&P discourage punters?  For that matter how does Handicap racing encourage punters to bet more?

In my opinion there are bigger issues with the handicapping system that would discourage punters e.g. the 2kg female allowance, the limited upper and lower weight limits and the corresponding lack of spread.

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2 hours ago, Thomass said:

What a ridiculous argument...but you make plenty of stupid statements 

THe SW&F All penalty Races were adopted to appease the deniers aka 'Breeders' that we have far too many Black Type races run beyond the appropriate international level...

...at the expense of Handicap racing...which encourages higher levels of wagering...

...so NZTR bent over and asked what more  they could do to help....

...So against the Handicapping report...they also rubber stamped Maiden races as SW...

...when Handicap races are where it's at to encourage Wagering...dickheads

Yes. We've done this Thommo. You are right.

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2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Mardigras:  How does SW&P discourage punters?  For that matter how does Handicap racing encourage punters to bet more?

In my opinion there are bigger issues with the handicapping system that would discourage punters e.g. the 2kg female allowance, the limited upper and lower weight limits and the corresponding lack of spread.

It could be that way if the races were considered more competitive. If a horse is majorly advantaged by way of SW&P or WFA, then the relative interest in the race can dwindle - especially in areas such as tote betting. Fixed odds, probably not to the same degree - which would be more dependant on the competitiveness of the pricing.

In a highly competitive market (not race), where there is a short priced runner, betting will be higher. Such as on a competitive betfair market with a 1.10 chance. betting will be greater than a race with a 5 favourite - generally on a site such as betfair. On the tote, the $5 favourite race is likely to be more attractive to punters.

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