Media Release from CJC regarding the 2019 Guineas Races

[curious]

10 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

You could equally argue that it is the making of some of those horses.

Why not fly them out of Hamilton?  Would be less stressful than floating them from Matamata to Auckland.

It may be the making of some. Of course they could fly. Back in the day when clubs were reliant on the turnover they generated, they often offered travel subsidies and not just for big races.

You have to remember that these horses are immature, many have not been away from home before. They have to cope with an unfamiliar environment for a week or so. Most will have been in work a good part of the winter and are still learning. They are not machines. You can't just bring them home, change the oil, fill them up with petrol and expect them to roar into life as soon as they get home.

I've seen plenty of young horses go to Riccarton in November, race well and not go on. I think it is a legitimate concern for a Northern horse that's eligible for the Millions. He was just making the point that it can be a tough call.

[Chief Stipe]

5 minutes ago, curious said:

You have to remember that these horses are immature, many have not been away from home before. They have to cope with an unfamiliar environment for a week or so. Most will have been in work a good part of the winter and are still learning. They are not machines. You can't just bring them home, change the oil, fill them up with petrol and expect them to roar into life as soon as they get home.

 

Curious are you serious?

The Victorian Derby is run two weeks before our Guineas over a distance of 2400m.  Their Oaks a week later.

 

[curious]

47 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Taking a logical progression on from this given the two group ones are set for the two days of the Cup meeting where will Trackside’s focus for those days be?  Certainly not on a G3 day in the South Island and following on from that how long will the $40k premier day stakes be  available to the CJC for that carnival?  It is a slippery slidey slope I’m afraid and utterly predictable.

Can't see 40k stakes for supporting races. More like 14k and say 50k for the Guineas if lucky. Unless they borrow or steal the money.

[curious]

5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Curious are you serious?

The Victorian Derby is run two weeks before our Guineas over a distance of 2400m.  Their Oaks a week later.

 

Don't get your point. In the good old days, our Derby was run that week too.

[Chief Stipe]

Why not shift the Hawkes Bay Guineas to Te Rapa or Auckland?  It is run in the first week of October.  It's at least a 5 hour float trip from Tony Pike's place.

Those poor horses who are not really 3 yr olds and have to travel away from home.

Maybe Pike should consider that racing in the 2000 Guineas was the making of Run to Perfection?

[mumbles]

If they don't get the calendar right first time we will still be arguing the point in 10 years time.

Having said that North of Taupo is where all the action appears to be headed rightly or wrongly

Big question should be where is Winnie.?

One of his big supporters appears to be going offshore in a small way to begin with, and another is now at an age where his opinion doesn't appear to matter anymore or is just not reported.

 

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Why would Te Akau support the shift?  Under the current model they have won 10 of them.

Probably costs Te Akau the guts of $100k to have all those horses in the south for a couple of months.  While they would charge the owners it is an expense they could well do to avoid.  And just because they are relocated North doesn’t mean their dominance is likely to be any less.  Then this coming spring with the likelihood of having horses in Melbourne they must have staff concerns as well.

[Chief Stipe]

11 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Probably costs Te Akau the guts of $100k to have all those horses in the south for a couple of months.

I don't think they do that with their key Guineas horses.  Regardless some of those costs are fixed anyway e.g. training fees.  Te Akau have obviously developed a formula that works for them when targeting the Guineas.

It is also important to consider that most of Te Akau's stars have started during Cup week at Riccarton including Melody Belle and Te Akau Shark.  

[Reefton]

22 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I don't think they do that with their key Guineas horses.  Regardless some of those costs are fixed anyway e.g. training fees.  Te Akau have obviously developed a formula that works for them when targeting the Guineas.

It is also important to consider that most of Te Akau's stars have started during Cup week at Riccarton including Melody Belle and Te Akau Shark.  

Not sure Melody Belle ever raced down here did she and TAS only once (and that because it was a big stake and he got in light (comparatively)).  Bottom line from Ellis's point of view why travel them when you can bring the races to the horses?

[Chief Stipe]

28 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Not sure Melody Belle ever raced down here did she and TAS only once (and that because it was a big stake and he got in light (comparatively)).  Bottom line from Ellis's point of view why travel them when you can bring the races to the horses?

My mistake with Melody Belle.

Te Akau Shark - yep an easy kill for a good stake.  He did run 4th in the 2000 Guineas as well.  Perhaps that trip south was part of his education before heading to OZ.  It has often been reported that mentally he has been a slow maturing type.

Of course he would find it favourable if the races were on his doorstep but equally if they were still held at Riccarton Te Akau would plan accordingly.

Just as Pike would.  He won the 1000 Guineas this season with Loire.  For those who reckon the race at this time of year is hard on these horses then look at Jennifer Eccles!  Incidentally Loire wasn't eligible for the Karaka Millions!!!!!

[All The Aces]

 

Bring both Guineas north for good and race them both at Ellerslie, one on Boxing Day and the other on New Years Day.

The G1 1000 Guineas to be run on Boxing Day in place of the Listed Uncle Remus Stakes and the G1 2000 Guineas in place of the G2 Auckland Guineas. 

That's if Foxton hasn't secured them. ?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by All The Aces

[Huey]

4 minutes ago, All The Aces said:

 

Bring both Guineas north for good and race them both at Ellerslie, one on Boxing Day and the other on New Years Day.

The G1 1000 Guineas to be run on Boxing Day in place of the Listed Uncle Remus Stakes and the G1 2000 Guineas in place of the G2 Auckland Guineas. 

That's if Foxton hasn't secured them. ?

 

 

 

 

 

Might be a dangerous move, has there been any examples of moving races or race dates that have improved the event particularly from a participation and punting point of view? I can't think of any of top of my head. 

[All The Aces]

 

There has been plenty of talk of moving them North to be fair Huey.

The North provide by far the number of horses that race in both Guineas in sheer volume and the cost of transport getting those numbers down to Riccarton.

Far fewer horses would need to transported also meaning savings to more owners.

    

[Ludwig]

3 hours ago, All The Aces said:

 

There has been plenty of talk of moving them North to be fair Huey.

The North provide by far the number of horses that race in both Guineas in sheer volume and the cost of transport getting those numbers down to Riccarton.

Far fewer horses would need to transported also meaning savings to more owners.

    

And people in the south shake their heads at the arrogant "we want it all" attitude of Auckland.

[Noodlum]

9 hours ago, All The Aces said:

 

There has been plenty of talk of moving them North to be fair Huey.

The North provide by far the number of horses that race in both Guineas in sheer volume and the cost of transport getting those numbers down to Riccarton.

Far fewer horses would need to transported also meaning savings to more owners.

    

All The Aces - are you a trainer or an owner?

[$ BILL]

All The Aces

With that logic are you suggesting they should run the Melbourne Cup in Europe?

[Rusty]

23 minutes ago, $ BILL said:

All The Aces

With that logic are you suggesting they should run the Melbourne Cup in Europe?

Dead right. 

Hang on, got another idea... 

Melbourne Grand Prix... not many aussies, win or even compete in that... let's move it too. Move it away from Melbourne. 

Australian Open tennis, grand slam, few aussies do actually compete in that, but not too many at the pointy end of the comp, so bugger it, let's move that too, right off the continent. 

Still with tennis, the ASB Classic in Auckland, let's hit that on the head too, or at the very least move it off shore. How many kiwis have won that lately? Chris Lewis in '85 and Brett Steven lost the final in '96... nothing since, for 20+ years... move it right away from Auckland, would make more sense to play it in Barcelona, and save those poor Europeans and Americans that long haul trip to Auckland. 

Any body putting their weight behind the idea to move key races away from their "home", just don't grasp the concept of competitive sport at the highest level. 

The sport of kings would be one of the sports where there are a lot more traditionalists than most other sports, and it is the tradition that makes sport great. Admittedly tradition, can also bugger things up too with it doesn't move with the times (eg. The use, or refusal to use, technology in cricket, tennis, rugby league, football etc all with deep rooted traditions). 

But for christ sakes, leave theses races at Riccarton, just cut the stakes. Race for a bloody ribbon if need be. But leave the races there. And Auckland, Hastings or wherever else you want to hold it, start up your own one and give it a different name. 

[aquaman]

12 hours ago, All The Aces said:

 

There has been plenty of talk of moving them North to be fair Huey.

The North provide by far the number of horses that race in both Guineas in sheer volume and the cost of transport getting those numbers down to Riccarton.

Far fewer horses would need to transported also meaning savings to more owners.

    

Its all part of the education of these quality 3yr olds coming from the Nth Is to race in these races. Good horses  need to be able to travel and stable out of their comfort zone. Lots of winners of these races go on to Aus later in their careers, and the long trip south stands them in good steed.

[Ludwig]

And if the guineas races are being eyed up by the north, how long before the Grand National Hurdles and Steeples are joining the list.? 

[Ludwig]

4 hours ago, Rusty said:

Dead right. 

Hang on, got another idea... 

Melbourne Grand Prix... not many aussies, win or even compete in that... let's move it too. Move it away from Melbourne. 

Australian Open tennis, grand slam, few aussies do actually compete in that, but not too many at the pointy end of the comp, so bugger it, let's move that too, right off the continent. 

Still with tennis, the ASB Classic in Auckland, let's hit that on the head too, or at the very least move it off shore. How many kiwis have won that lately? Chris Lewis in '85 and Brett Steven lost the final in '96... nothing since, for 20+ years... move it right away from Auckland, would make more sense to play it in Barcelona, and save those poor Europeans and Americans that long haul trip to Auckland. 

Any body putting their weight behind the idea to move key races away from their "home", just don't grasp the concept of competitive sport at the highest level. 

The sport of kings would be one of the sports where there are a lot more traditionalists than most other sports, and it is the tradition that makes sport great. Admittedly tradition, can also bugger things up too with it doesn't move with the times (eg. The use, or refusal to use, technology in cricket, tennis, rugby league, football etc all with deep rooted traditions). 

But for christ sakes, leave theses races at Riccarton, just cut the stakes. Race for a bloody ribbon if need be. But leave the races there. And Auckland, Hastings or wherever else you want to hold it, start up your own one and give it a different name. 

Lots of good points. Wimbledon needs to go to Switzerland or Serbia, the French open to Rafa's own private court. And definitely the Auckland trotting cup needs to move to Addington? That would make the jafas squeal.

[All The Aces]

2 hours ago, Ludwig said:

And if the guineas races are being eyed up by the north, how long before the Grand National Hurdles and Steeples are joining the list.? 

Depends on how much longer they will hold jumping races in the South.

Freda will tell you they are desperately holding on at present to have jumping races down there and you will no doubt realise that there no jumping races in the South this year. 

[All The Aces]

9 hours ago, Noodlum said:

All The Aces - are you a trainer or an owner?

An owner Noodlum but without any connection to Ellerslie, in fact I live over 400k away from Ellerslie. 

However with talk of bringing the two races North I looked at where they would fit in best and those two days, Boxing Day and New Years Day with the two G1 Guineas replacing the two 3yo races on the same date would fit nicely, in my opinion, if they were to come North permanently.