The Centaur Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Lisa Latta a regular top ten trainer in New Zealand. Must be an explanation why no winner for 130 starts. Last winner 6th January. Can't be the location Awapuni as Chrisie Bambry going super. Is access to water walker a factor? e.g. Nigel Tiley but then again even trainers like Tiley can't get all their horses on the walker. TV presenters, reporters should try to report on whether horses training on the walker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 There is a pool at Awapuni. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Chrissy trains at Foxton , has water walker at parents property . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CrossCodes Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 I was wondering the same thing! Her stable is simply horrid at the moment, and has been for some time. She did have a lot of aged horses in her stable who clearly have all disappeared somewhere, and seems to have nothing at all coming through. Sad to see a former top trainer struggling to even compete, something has clearly gone astray, or maybe she is just slowly shutting up shop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 I did hear that her big patron ( McAlister? ) is very unwell, and was retiring those older horses referred to, and relocating others to Aus. I also heard ( not sure how accurate the info ) that there had been some upheaval in personal situation. A bloody tough game at the best of times, without other stresses getting in the way of focus. I'm sure she'll be back on top of things eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pitman Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 As someone who also had Don Bradman stats one year I wish Lisa all the best. I remember one trainer pointing out to an owner how bad we were going when we were 1 for 115, we won 20+ races over Xmas racing and carried on. Form is temporary, class is permanent. Lisa and her team will come good 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted August 15, 2020 Author Share Posted August 15, 2020 One of the quirks of UK racing is the importance UK media puts on trainers stats. Perhaps it is because they have nothing else to go on e,g we have barrier trials but at the same time there does appear some merit in their rather basic observations. Like this trainer doesn't produce first uppers or that trainer has had only one winner in 50 starts. Nevertheless it does appear that following an inform stable is productive. From a punters perspective the reasons for an out of form stable is seldom disclosed. Like a virus. Last season Neil Ridley a trainer normally with excellent strike rate had a long run of outs. Seems to have turned it around. Similarly last season i noticed Gary Vile horses all very dull and lethargic but this time going much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted August 17, 2020 Author Share Posted August 17, 2020 OK here's another possible explanation for a stable losing form. As we know COBALT has been the headliner these last few years. However over the years trainers have got used to using Vitamin injections in the week leading up to a race. But also there have been instances where trainers injecting vitamin B12 have got positives to cobalt. Therefore trainers now very wary of vitamin injections which in turn has upset their usual training patterns. I'll go sofar to say that backing up a horse within three days is impossible without certain aids. New Zealand's number one back up horse must be Deluxe Edition. I'll also venture to say I know why!!! at the same time just my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bid Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 1 hour ago, The Centaur said: I'll go sofar to say that backing up a horse within three days is impossible without certain aids. Bullshit 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 My old boss would love that Centaur, we won 2 races in the one day at Hawera back in the 60's.......with the same horse mind, and countless times we won races at 2 day or Sat/Mon race meetings..........you need to get out more mate, some trainers might need a needle or more to help them, but the good ones don't! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 14 hours ago, The Centaur said: OK here's another possible explanation for a stable losing form. As we know COBALT has been the headliner these last few years. However over the years trainers have got used to using Vitamin injections in the week leading up to a race. But also there have been instances where trainers injecting vitamin B12 have got positives to cobalt. Therefore trainers now very wary of vitamin injections which in turn has upset their usual training patterns. I'll go sofar to say that backing up a horse within three days is impossible without certain aids. New Zealand's number one back up horse must be Deluxe Edition. I'll also venture to say I know why!!! at the same time just my opinion. I think what you are asserting is WAY off the mark. If you look at Lisa's record it would be one of the cleanest in New Zealand gallops. I'll think you will find that a combination of events which Lisa has had very little control over have conspired to affect her current strike rate. Covid-19 must have had a huge impact. Her normal number of starts is over 500 a year but for last year it was down to 380. In saying that her stable has never had a high strike rate and around 12 and last year it was at 18. So in my opinion statistically her stable is running just a little below par but has been severely affected by the Covid-19 outage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 You don't go from being a very good trainer to a struggling one by choice, there are always reasons for a bad run, what it is does though is sort out the good, understanding and loyal owners from the fair weather sailors. I don't think Lisa is struggling, just a flat spot, give her the cattle, the right cattle and she'll get results. Owners are changing, so many of the old faithful boomers are gone, or nearly gone, the new breed are arriving, and they are vastly different, a major reason the old stale males running our industry are nearly gone also. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said: You don't go from being a very good trainer to a struggling one by choice, there are always reasons for a bad run, what it is does though is sort out the good, understanding and loyal owners from the fair weather sailors. I don't think Lisa is struggling, just a flat spot, give her the cattle, the right cattle and she'll get results. Owners are changing, so many of the old faithful boomers are gone, or nearly gone, the new breed are arriving, and they are vastly different, a major reason the old stale males running our industry are nearly gone also. She'll probably win a couple on her home track this weekend, so get on! and usually when it rains it pours! I don't think you can say she hasn't had the cattle though, she has some pretty well bred stock go through the stable particularly compared to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 13 hours ago, Bid said: Bullshit Agree especially when they are well, try that one on Dummy Myers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Lisa's stable has been under pinned by 3 owners over the last 15 years , 2 in particular in Street and McAlister , in more recent seasons by Kevin Pratt who unfortunately passed away last week . Street cut his numbers back significantly 3/4 years back and McAlister seems to be on the same path , possibly health related . Pratt seemed to farm a few more around the last couple of seasons and shifted a couple to Aus . She doesn't appear to have the same number at the races so perhaps indicating numbers at low at present . On top of that attracting new owners to the game is tough now . 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 I see Lisa has lost her good mare Sentimental Miss to Waller in SYD, would never have happened once, Lisa the victim of the state of NZ racing....and those that run it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumbles Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 If the NZ Racing site is to believed,Lisa has 86 in work. As i say believe it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 56 minutes ago, mumbles said: If the NZ Racing site is to believed,Lisa has 86 in work. As i say believe it or not. Not i would surmise . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted August 18, 2020 Author Share Posted August 18, 2020 17 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said: My old boss would love that Centaur, we won 2 races in the one day at Hawera back in the 60's.......with the same horse mind, and countless times we won races at 2 day or Sat/Mon race meetings..........you need to get out more mate, some trainers might need a needle or more to help them, but the good ones don't! I'm scratching my head over a horse winning twice on one day at Hawera. Harnees racing yes but for open handicappers to win a 2000 then a 1400 almost impossible. That saying there were some very hardy horses around then e.g. Waitaha trained by Stan Kahui a 16 stoner so you could say carrying big weights on raceday no problem. Its amazing when one mentions injections some people run around saying "you can't accuse someone of that". Injections, supplements etc are not illegal and standard items. However one of the reasons David Hayes has gone off to Hong Kong is that in his own words he was sick and tired of other trainers in Victoria having an unfair advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, The Centaur said: I'm scratching my head over a horse winning twice on one day at Hawera. Harnees racing yes but for open handicappers to win a 2000 then a 1400 almost impossible. That saying there were some very hardy horses around then e.g. Waitaha trained by Stan Kahui a 16 stoner so you could say carrying big weights on raceday no problem. Its amazing when one mentions injections some people run around saying "you can't accuse someone of that". Injections, supplements etc are not illegal and standard items. However one of the reasons David Hayes has gone off to Hong Kong is that in his own words he was sick and tired of other trainers in Victoria having an unfair advantage. Clarrie McCarthy won both legs of the double at [ I think ] Waikouaiti one year with an Alcimedes stallion whose name escapes me...and Lionel Pratt regularly sent horses around very frequently - and with great success. See if you can find any info on Cloudy View... Edited August 18, 2020 by Freda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 I think Hawera 68/69, he was by My Pal and either MRC or JWW rode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted August 18, 2020 Author Share Posted August 18, 2020 57 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said: I think Hawera 68/69, he was by My Pal and either MRC or JWW rode. If its a Deacon horse I would be shocked. He had a reputation being conservative and patient. The showy chestnut Stylish Pal is one My Pal horse I recall he had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Freda said: Clarrie McCarthy won both legs of the double at [ I think ] Waikouaiti one year with an Alcimedes stallion whose name escapes me...and Lionel Pratt regularly sent horses around very frequently - and with great success. See if you can find any info on Cloudy View... Yes. I also vaguely remember a horse winning both legs of the double at Amberley one year. Maybe Jay something. Think Max Skelton rode it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 The Alcimedes horse was Eurypides. Cloudy View was, I think, by Grey William. Shane Laming won the Telegraph on Flying View, also trained by Lionel. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 2 hours ago, The Centaur said: If its a Deacon horse I would be shocked. He had a reputation being conservative and patient. The showy chestnut Stylish Pal is one My Pal horse I recall he had. Don't be shocked, Deac was all that and more, very tough on apprentices, but just a brilliant horseman, taught us all well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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