Mikie Posted September 24, 2020 Author Share Posted September 24, 2020 1 hour ago, JJ Flash said: While a CEO may be asked his opinion its the board who issues policy and thereafter it is up to the CEO to carry out such policy. One job is governance the other is operational matters . You seem to struggle with that concept Brodie but rest assured you are not alone. Greg Take the quote above onboard Brodie and try to learn something Your last response to me was 14 paragraphs long and you spent all of them trying to rephrase what you originally said (again) You are coming across as a bit of a dickhead in that you can’t back up what you said but you won’t apologise For your benefit (again) it doesn’t matter what views Mr Rennell held, he didn’t have the power to change Rules or Regulations which is what you suggested he did by using the words “ off his own bat without consensus” Yoy were wrong, you have been shown up as being wrong Stop trying to rewrite or rephrase what you said Man up and apologise Mikie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 40 minutes ago, Mikie said: Take the quote above onboard Brodie and try to learn something Why would Brodie take notice of what JJ Flash has posted when it is patently wrong? A Board of Directors primary, and arguably their only role, is to provide strategic direction and of course an oversight in terms of budgets and expenditure. JJ Flash has to date displayed a very confused understanding of the role of Boards and CEO's as evidenced in his posts about RITA's Board and its CEO. As for the rules and regulations - did the Board collate the HRNZ's Covid-19 response? As for Rennell just like any CEO he would have had considerable influence in operational matters of which the whips rules are but one. The normal process (certainly in all the organisations I've worked in) is for the CEO and the Senior Management team to formulate and present papers to the Board that require Board consent. So in the case of HRNZ rules and regulations would be formulated by CEO and Senior Management and presented to the Board who would give consent or not or request more information. Large Strategic decisions are normally driven by the Board. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) 42 minutes ago, Mikie said: Take the quote above onboard Brodie and try to learn something Your last response to me was 14 paragraphs long and you spent all of them trying to rephrase what you originally said (again) You are coming across as a bit of a dickhead in that you can’t back up what you said but you won’t apologise For your benefit (again) it doesn’t matter what views Mr Rennell held, he didn’t have the power to change Rules or Regulations which is what you suggested he did by using the words “ off his own bat without consensus” Yoy were wrong, you have been shown up as being wrong Stop trying to rewrite or rephrase what you said Man up and apologise Mikie Mikie, which part is Brodie wrong? It is well known what Mr Rennells feelings were and he implemented the rule without a consensus!!!! What part have I not backed up? When you are a CEO you wield the most power and I seriously doubt whether the Board approved the rule as it was brought in very quickly after the OZ BS, which was subsequently never brought in!!!! I have not backtracked on a single thing Mikie, decisions need to well thought out as the consequences can be significant! Edited September 24, 2020 by Brodie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 17 minutes ago, Brodie said: When you are a CEO you wield the most power and I seriously doubt whether the Board approved the rule as it was brought in very quickly after the OZ BS, which was subsequently never brought in!!!! I doubt that that would be the case Brodie. As I said above the CEO and Senior Management would have formulated the rule however consent for its implementation would have had to have been given by the HRNZ Board. The CEO would have argued the case for it and therefore was probably the main driver of the change. Some rule changes are presented for voting on at the annual conference/AGM. The process in my opinion is too slow, convoluted and variable. Often HRNZ rules are way out of kilter with NZTR's on matters where they should be the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 6 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: I doubt that that would be the case Brodie. As I said above the CEO and Senior Management would have formulated the rule however consent for its implementation would have had to have been given by the HRNZ Board. The CEO would have argued the case for it and therefore was probably the main driver of the change. Some rule changes are presented for voting on at the annual conference/AGM. The process in my opinion is too slow, convoluted and variable. Often HRNZ rules are way out of kilter with NZTR's on matters where they should be the same. Fair enough Chief! What I know is that Mr Rennell clearly made his opinion well known and the NZ rule was brought in very quickly after the Ozzie banning of the whip rule! Mr Rennell was the CEO at the time and to allow the rule of 10 hits or taps of the whip inside the last 400m to be written shows that he was not on top of the game. The rule was not thought out and was brought in without a thorough consultation with the affected party, that being the horsemen! Has anyone got the minutes of the boards decision to pass the stupid rule, and also the passing of the rule in regards to disqualification of horses only if the affected horse can prove it wouldve beaten the transgressor? Would make great reading!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 With regard to the Whip Rule - the HRNZ Board presented a remit at the 2017 AGM/Conference which was passed giving the Board the power to formulate and enforce Use of the Whip Regulations. Following that Conference the HRNZ Board (13 November 2017) approved the current whip rules (attached) which came into force on 20 November 2017. In my opinion there is no question that this was led by the CEO who it appears consulted with the RIU on the details. UseoftheWhipRegulations-withPenaltyGuide.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 Under Rennell they up the ante a bit by clarifying rule 103A. If due process was followed then all industry stakeholders (except punters!) had a chance to make submissions to the Board on the Whip rule change......but looking at the dates and when the detail was finally formulated I'm inclined to agree with Brodie that there seems to have been a fast track process that may or may not have followed the letter of the law. I don't know if the Board minutes are published to the public. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 Correct Chief! Rennell was the influencer and the stupid rule was introduced without a helluva lot of thought or common sense. If the Board all agreed with the rule and wording then god help harness racing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted September 24, 2020 Author Share Posted September 24, 2020 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Brodie said: Correct Chief! Rennell was the influencer and the stupid rule was introduced without a helluva lot of thought or common sense. If the Board all agreed with the rule and wording then god help harness racing! Again Brodie, you seem incapable of reading my posts I have already acknowledged that Mr Rennell was for the whip rule, and Chief is quite right when he said that it was led by the CEO, but this is immaterial You did not say that Mr Rennell was for the whip ruLe which is why you were 'against' him, you said that he made decisions (note the plural) that you didn't agree with You said that he introduced the Rule or Regulation "off his own bat without any consensus" That is incorrect and despite Chief doing his best to help you squirm out of what you said you haven't succeeded As Chief pointed out the whip Rule was passed by the Board, and that is completely different to what you stated If you had said to begin with that Mr Rennell was CEO when decisions were made by the Board that you don't agree with then I wouldn't have pulled you up. You didn't say that For the 6th time, give me a list of decisions made by the CEO, not the Board, that you regard as silly Mikie Edited September 24, 2020 by Mikie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted September 24, 2020 Author Share Posted September 24, 2020 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: With regard to the Whip Rule - the HRNZ Board presented a remit at the 2017 AGM/Conference which was passed giving the Board the power to formulate and enforce Use of the Whip Regulations. Following that Conference the HRNZ Board (13 November 2017) approved the current whip rules (attached) which came into force on 20 November 2017. In my opinion there is no question that this was led by the CEO who it appears consulted with the RIU on the details. UseoftheWhipRegulations-withPenaltyGuide.pdf 19.28 kB · 1 download Chief It can be "led by the CEO", I have no problem with that, and if Brodie had used those words we would not be debating it It is not a question of semantics, Brodie stated that the CEO made decisions "off his own bat without consensus" That is completely different to placing something before a Board for them to consider, or ratify, or even rubber stamp Let Brodie get himself out of his own hole I asked for a list from him, all I've had is onerous posts about the whip rule No wonder Ranga gets sick of him Mikie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted September 24, 2020 Author Share Posted September 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Why would Brodie take notice of what JJ Flash has posted when it is patently wrong? A Board of Directors primary, and arguably their only role, is to provide strategic direction and of course an oversight in terms of budgets and expenditure. JJ Flash has to date displayed a very confused understanding of the role of Boards and CEO's as evidenced in his posts about RITA's Board and its CEO. As for the rules and regulations - did the Board collate the HRNZ's Covid-19 response? As for Rennell just like any CEO he would have had considerable influence in operational matters of which the whips rules are but one. The normal process (certainly in all the organisations I've worked in) is for the CEO and the Senior Management team to formulate and present papers to the Board that require Board consent. So in the case of HRNZ rules and regulations would be formulated by CEO and Senior Management and presented to the Board who would give consent or not or request more information. Large Strategic decisions are normally driven by the Board. Missed this post by you Chief Just answer 1 question Who/what brought in the 2017 Whip Rule? Not who influenced it, not who recommended it, not who drove it? Just a simple one word answer Chief Mikie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted September 24, 2020 Author Share Posted September 24, 2020 2 hours ago, Brodie said: Mikie, which part is Brodie wrong? It is well known what Mr Rennells feelings were and he implemented the rule without a consensus!!!! What part have I not backed up? When you are a CEO you wield the most power and I seriously doubt whether the Board approved the rule as it was brought in very quickly after the OZ BS, which was subsequently never brought in!!!! I have not backtracked on a single thing Mikie, decisions need to well thought out as the consequences can be significant! What part is wrong? Answer: The part where you said that Mr Rennell brought in the Rule "off his own bat without consensus" What part haven't you backed up? Answer: The part where I asked you for a list of decisions made by the CEO, not the Board, to back up your initial statement "I haven't backtracked". Response: That's true, you haven't, and you haven't come up with a single item for the list I asked you for Try to comprehend Brodie, you didn't say that Mr Rennell was CEO at a time that decisions were made that you regarded as silly, you said he made those decisions himself. Can't you see the difference? Ranga's starting to look more and more like a messiah; or a saint for putting up with you Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted September 24, 2020 Share Posted September 24, 2020 14 minutes ago, Mikie said: Missed this post by you Chief Just answer 1 question Who/what brought in the 2017 Whip Rule? Not who influenced it, not who recommended it, not who drove it? Just a simple one word answer Chief Mikie Don't understand your question. Regardless the way it is framed and the topic it covers would require more than a one word answer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted September 25, 2020 Author Share Posted September 25, 2020 39 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Don't understand your question. Regardless the way it is framed and the topic it covers would require more than a one word answer! OK Chief Was the Whip Rule approved by the HRNZ Board in November 2017? Or was it brought in at some time by the CEO off his own bat without any consensus? Mikie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Mikie said: OK Chief Was the Whip Rule approved by the HRNZ Board in November 2017? Or was it brought in at some time by the CEO off his own bat without any consensus? Mikie Mr Rennell railroaded the stupid whip rule in and you know that! It was rushed thru without any thought of the consequences and that to my mind is not great leadership! The fact that it finalLy has been changed shows how dumb it was by putting a number on it! Mr Rennell was also CEO when the stupid change to enquiries rule was also brought in! Mikie, are you saying that Mr Rennell did not agree with what the Board had passed then? The reality is that harness HRNZ needs a CEO that can lead harness and make decisions that are in the best interests of harness racing, and we have not been getting that have we? Regarding Ranga, if you think he is a messiah is up to you, doesnt affect my thinking Mikie! You may think I am posturing, well I think you are trolling! Edited September 25, 2020 by Brodie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 49 minutes ago, Mikie said: Was the Whip Rule approved by the HRNZ Board in November 2017? FFS I have already posted that information. 49 minutes ago, Mikie said: Or was it brought in at some time by the CEO off his own bat without any consensus? Two parts to that question. Did the CEO draft the rule? Most likely. Did the CEO push it through the Board? More than likely. Was the industry consulted adequately? I have doubts. Therefore consensus cannot be claimed. So as they say in the industry the CEO was the owner, trainer and driver of the rule which the Board approved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted September 25, 2020 Author Share Posted September 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, Brodie said: Mr Rennell railroaded the stupid whip rule in and you know that! It was rushed thru without any thought of the consequences and that to my mind is not great leadership! The fact that it finalLy has been changed shows how dumb it was by putting a number on it! Mr Rennell was also CEO when the stupid change to enquiries rule was also brought in! Mikie, are you saying that Mr Rennell did not agree with what the Board had passed then? The reality is that harness HRNZ needs a CEO that can lead harness and make decisions that are in the best interests of harness racing, and we have not been getting that have we? Regarding Ranga, if you think he is a messiah is up to you, doesnt affect my thinking Mikie! You may think I am posturing, well I think you are trolling! FFS Read what I am saying I have said numerous times that Mr Rennell may have agreed with what was passed (and obviously in respect of the whip rule he did) What I am trying to point out is that he did not make any decision that you so far have referred to "off his own bat" which is what you said You are being a buffoon now You were wrong in what you said, Chief has tried to help you out of pity I presume, but you are still wrongh and you just won't admit it No one is trolling you, well maybe Ranga is but now I have sympathy for him, you posted tripe so that's your fault Mikie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted September 25, 2020 Author Share Posted September 25, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: FFS I have already posted that information. Two parts to that question. Did the CEO draft the rule? Most likely. Did the CEO push it through the Board? More than likely. Was the industry consulted adequately? I have doubts. Therefore consensus cannot be claimed. So as they say in the industry the CEO was the owner, trainer and driver of the rule which the Board approved. You answered the question The Board approved the Rule Therefore it can't be added to the list I have asked Brodie for, which was decisions that the CEO made off his own bat I don't want to know who drafted the Rule, I don't need to know who pushed it, I never asked any question about consultancy. These are all things that Brodie could have said. He didn't Mikie Edited September 25, 2020 by Mikie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 7 minutes ago, Mikie said: I don't want to know who drafted the Rule, I don't need to know who pushed it, Why not? I thought it would be important to know especially if there was or wasn't adequate consultation of the industry. In that regard Brodie has a point. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted September 25, 2020 Author Share Posted September 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said: Why not? I thought it would be important to know especially if there was or wasn't adequate consultation of the industry. In that regard Brodie has a point. FFS I am not saying that there was adequate consultation or whether or not Brodie doesn't have a point I already knew who drafted the Rule but that wasn't my question I am saying that Brodie stated that the Rule was brought in by the CEO "off his own bat" ie without Board approval That's wrong as you have helped out with I have asked Brodie for a list of things that the CEO brought in "off his own bat" I haven't had 1 so far have I? If you feel the need to help Brodie out that's fine, but it doesn't alter the fact that he posted crap that he can't back up, and it's pretty obvious that he can't despite having many hours to come up with something Every reply from him skirts the issue, no reply substantiates his initial claim Not one farken thing can he come up with, and since he is always on the money is 1 farken thing too much to ask? Mikie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie Posted September 25, 2020 Author Share Posted September 25, 2020 10 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Why not? I thought it would be important to know especially if there was or wasn't adequate consultation of the industry. In that regard Brodie has a point. Why not? Because I already knew That's not the point The point is Brodie posted a statement that he now can't substantiate, nothing more to it than that Mikie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Mikie said: Why not? Because I already knew That's not the point The point is Brodie posted a statement that he now can't substantiate, nothing more to it than that Mikie Mikie, you are being totally pedantic, and not that becoming of you, and I can see why you are quoting Ranga! Personallygot far better things to to do than debate pedantics like Ranga tries to do! The fact is that Edward Rennell was the CEO of HRNZ when the stupid rules have been introduced which suggests that he was more than happy with the way the rules were written! Has the two rules that hesigned off on been beneficial and sensible? No!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 On 22/09/2020 at 8:57 PM, Brodie said: Who on earth is Peter Ydgren? rangatira bro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehe Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 Brodie its good to see your still a fuck wit the whip rule was bought in because of the anties and it was rushed in nothing to do with the community at the time Its good to see that the chief is still helping you out so you don't sulk for week and won't post You would have to be the most negative person on the site about anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mehe Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 Just now, Mehe said: Brodie its good to see your still a fuck wit the whip rule was bought in because of the anties and it was rushed in nothing to do with the community at the time Its good to see that the chief is still helping you out so you don't sulk for week and won't post You would have to be the most negative person on the site about anything Not community but ceo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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