Chief Stipe Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 29 minutes ago, nomates said: Interesting that Avondale have put up a G2 track today , lots of scratchings , which i assume are because of the track condition . Will be an interesting watch . Some light showers forecast for the afternoon . About 70 scratchings. I guess at least it has been graded a G2! No irrigation - Auckland water restrictions? Been using a Groundhog for the last two days - that doesn't sound promising. Shame Avondale was once a top racing surface. I wonder how their rich neighbour is coping. MEETING NEWS Avondale JC | Wednesday 7 October RACE DAY Race Day Weather: Fine Track: Good 2 Rail: Out 4m | Groundhog is being used on track Weather and Track updated at 7.03am Wednesday 7 October Tuesday Afternoon Weather: Fine Track: Good 3 Rail: Out 4m | Groundhog is being used on track Weather and Track updated at 3.41pm Tuesday 6 October Tuesday Morning Weather: Overcast Track: Good 3 Rail: Out 4m Weather and Track updated at 8.47am Tuesday 6 October Monday Afternoon Weather: Fine Track: Good 3 Rail: Out 4m | No Rain Weather and Track updated at 3.42pm Monday 5 October Withdrawal Morning Weather: Fine Track: Dead 4 Rail: Out 4m Weather and Track updated at 8.45am Saturday 3 October Nomination Morning Weather: Fine Track: Dead 4 Rail: Out 4m | 20mm Rain Last 7 days | No Rain Last 24hrs Weather and Track updated at 9.08am Friday 2 October Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: About 70 scratchings. I guess at least it has been graded a G2! No irrigation - Auckland water restrictions? Been using a Groundhog for the last two days - that doesn't sound promising. Shame Avondale was once a top racing surface. I wonder how their rich neighbour is coping. MEETING NEWS Avondale JC | Wednesday 7 October RACE DAY Race Day Weather: Fine Track: Good 2 Rail: Out 4m | Groundhog is being used on track Weather and Track updated at 7.03am Wednesday 7 October Tuesday Afternoon Weather: Fine Track: Good 3 Rail: Out 4m | Groundhog is being used on track Weather and Track updated at 3.41pm Tuesday 6 October Tuesday Morning Weather: Overcast Track: Good 3 Rail: Out 4m Weather and Track updated at 8.47am Tuesday 6 October Monday Afternoon Weather: Fine Track: Good 3 Rail: Out 4m | No Rain Weather and Track updated at 3.42pm Monday 5 October Withdrawal Morning Weather: Fine Track: Dead 4 Rail: Out 4m Weather and Track updated at 8.45am Saturday 3 October Nomination Morning Weather: Fine Track: Dead 4 Rail: Out 4m | 20mm Rain Last 7 days | No Rain Last 24hrs Weather and Track updated at 9.08am Friday 2 October Yet another reason why the centralisation of racing in the NZ won't work, outside of big carnival days is there really any point racing in Auckland? Must be a nightmare Auckland traffic etc getting your horses there? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 Why is there no irrigation? Groundhogs won't work very well on hard ground, at least mine doesn't, so why would they be doing that now when they have no moisture? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 22 minutes ago, curious said: Why is there no irrigation? Groundhogs won't work very well on hard ground, at least mine doesn't, so why would they be doing that now when they have no moisture? No money to pay for the water charges or council restrictions? There are still council restrictions on water use in Auckland. They would have been using the Groundhog the break the surface up as they saw the forecast for rain. Riccarton did the same and then applied irrigation. A good soil structure and you don't need to use mechanical means to get water absorption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 21 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: A good soil structure and you don't need to use mechanical means to get water absorption. Same if you have good root depth , constant watering tells the roots to stay closer to the top . Go into a paddock and try pulling up bunch of grass up , roots and all , bloody hard . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 11 minutes ago, nomates said: Same if you have good root depth , constant watering tells the roots to stay closer to the top . Go into a paddock and try pulling up bunch of grass up , roots and all , bloody hard . Geez, where did that common sense come from? if you've got any to spare, could you send it onto Jackson St Petone? with a cc to CJC?.........or do you reckon that might be a wasted exercise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 21 minutes ago, nomates said: Same if you have good root depth , constant watering tells the roots to stay closer to the top . Go into a paddock and try pulling up bunch of grass up , roots and all , bloody hard . But that's when you are dealing with a suboptimal situation. Given the soil structure is stuffed irrigation in small amounts needs to happen often to keep the grass alive because as you say the roots are near the surface. To counter that you need to swamp the turf with water to get it down deep. That costs and is hard to control. If you have good soil structure be it through organic/inorganic or artificial means you don't need to do that. Good farmers will plough, sow an organic crop, plough it in and resow grass to get optimal pasture. The artificial alternative is Strathayr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 12 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said: Geez, where did that common sense come from? if you've got any to spare, could you send it onto Jackson St Petone? with a cc to CJC?.........or do you reckon that might be a wasted exercise? Mate , you've kept the scope to cc anything forward a bit narrow , it would have to be sent to every club , i don't know a track in NZ that doesn't have issues with their track . And it would be a wasted exercise , even then . Hence the procurement of 3 A/W's . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: But that's when you are dealing with a suboptimal situation. Given the soil structure is stuffed irrigation in small amounts needs to happen often to keep the grass alive because as you say the roots are near the surface. To counter that you need to swamp the turf with water to get it down deep. That costs and is hard to control. If you have good soil structure be it through organic/inorganic or artificial means you don't need to do that. Good farmers will plough, sow an organic crop, plough it in and resow grass to get optimal pasture. The artificial alternative is Strathayr. Part of the reason soil structure is stuffed is because there is no root depth , roots help keep the structure sound . If the roots are allowed to get down deep enough they are able to continue to get enough moisture to feed the plant , except in the worst of droughts of course . Good deep root structure also helps with concussion . Unfortunately our tracks are never allowed long enough to get these deep roots . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: A good soil structure and you don't need to use mechanical means to get water absorption. No the purpose of deep aeration is to get the necessary root structure developed as you say. And their application needs to be horizontal to the direction of the compaction traffic not just drive them round the track half a dozen times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 1 minute ago, nomates said: Part of the reason soil structure is stuffed is because there is no root depth , roots help keep the structure sound . No. Grass roots physically can't get through soil that has no structure. Hard to grow turf on concrete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: No. Grass roots physically can't get through soil that has no structure. Hard to grow turf on concrete. Not disagreeing , the tracks are too stuffed now , they would need to be completely ripped up and replaced but then given enough time to get the roots deep . They go hand in hand , if it's done properly very little artificial watering is required . Never an issue in years gone by , but what did they know . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, nomates said: Never an issue in years gone by , but what did they know . To be fair to the current track managers those in the past had the best of the soil. They also had less use as there was a plethora of tracks around to train and race on. Centralisation is going to be a self defeating option. More use on tracks that are stuffed. I've argued before why not use your assets and have a rotation cycle. Like modern farmers do. Every 5 or so years the turf at a track is renovated and the club races somewhere else for the season. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 44 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: To be fair to the current track managers those in the past had the best of the soil. They also had less use as there was a plethora of tracks around to train and race on. Centralisation is going to be a self defeating option. More use on tracks that are stuffed. I've argued before why not use your assets and have a rotation cycle. Like modern farmers do. Every 5 or so years the turf at a track is renovated and the club races somewhere else for the season. That's what used to happen and for the most part still does in Oz. Certainly on the dairy farm next door to me. They also raced on those tracks at times their climate and soil structure etc. was most likely suited to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 20 minutes ago, curious said: That's what used to happen and for the most part still does in Oz. Certainly on the dairy farm next door to me. They also raced on those tracks at times their climate and soil structure etc. was most likely suited to. Not rocket science is it? Do people realise that an AWT has a 4 lane asphalt highway as its base? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 20 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Not rocket science is it? Do people realise that an AWT has a 4 lane asphalt highway as its base? If it doesn't work for racing here, could you just take the fibre off (if it hasn't already blown away in a nor'wester) and use it for motor racing or something? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: To be fair to the current track managers those in the past had the best of the soil. They also had less use as there was a plethora of tracks around to train and race on. Centralisation is going to be a self defeating option. More use on tracks that are stuffed. I've argued before why not use your assets and have a rotation cycle. Like modern farmers do. Every 5 or so years the turf at a track is renovated and the club races somewhere else for the season. Bugger, once again I have to ask you to give yourself an uppercut, it's good old common sense, the Petone mob have glass jaws, they've never had to give themselves an uppercut, and we all know why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 1 hour ago, curious said: If it doesn't work for racing here, could you just take the fibre off (if it hasn't already blown away in a nor'wester) and use it for motor racing or something? They used to run F1 Grand Prix at Levin, when I was boy, Awapuni could be new home of Chris Amon, or Denny Hulme? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 I was grumbled at by a very aggrieved course manager yesterday who appears to have been reading BOAY. He, like many others, can't separate a critical assessment /opinion from a personal insult. For the record, if I wanted to insult anyone [ which I don't ] I wouldn't put it in the public arena. The Chief, I think, is on the mark when he comments that track managers are between a rock and hard place. With stuffed soil structures and limited funds, there is little they can do to ameliorate a situation that has been slowly creeping up over many years of under-investment. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 I don't think anyone has personally insulted the track managers. As I've posted I believe they have a near impossible job given what they have to work with. If I was going to insult anyone it is those higher up the food chain who seem to be missing in action. For example is Saundry actually alive? Or is he too busy editing the 3 business consultants reports regarding the acquisition of club assets? Where's the plan to address the turf track issues? Where are the financials for the AWT'S? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 5 hours ago, Freda said: I was grumbled at by a very aggrieved course manager yesterday who appears to have been reading BOAY. He, like many others, can't separate a critical assessment /opinion from a personal insult. For the record, if I wanted to insult anyone [ which I don't ] I wouldn't put it in the public arena. The Chief, I think, is on the mark when he comments that track managers are between a rock and hard place. With stuffed soil structures and limited funds, there is little they can do to ameliorate a situation that has been slowly creeping up over many years of under-investment. What do you think your aggrieved course manager would do if hit with a class action by aggrieved owners Freda? those that lost their horses for the season or worse by running them on sub-standard tracks? I bet that will never be tested in court though, apathy firstly and fear of repercussions by statuary bodies........imagine 10, 20, 30 or more owners, and some brave trainers taking legal action to recoup training fees mostly, and some seeking damages if course curators turn out G1 and G2 tracks with trainers running their horses simply through what they deem necessity. Of course we have an animal welfare issue then, how long before the RSPCA get on the bandwagon and the attrition trainers have to cease and desist forcing race meetings to either abandon or risk breakdowns on tv and subsequent militant action by the various active animal welfare entities?.....just asking, I've seen it unfold before, NZ has one of the worst animal welfare schemes in the modern world, and this would and could be cannon fodder to those activists. I know of one owner that lost his horse for a year, maybe more, and he sued his trainer for galloping his horse on a terribly notorious B grass and the subsequent injury and expense, the trainer countersued the club/management, it's still before the courts, the winner/s are the lawyers, it's going to get ugly and costly, and shortly the major animal activist org in the country will get involved, just another unneeded and unpleasant story for the public to read and watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said: What do you think your aggrieved course manager would do if hit with a class action by aggrieved owners Freda? those that lost their horses for the season or worse by running them on sub-standard tracks? I bet that will never be tested in court though, apathy firstly and fear of repercussions by statuary bodies........imagine 10, 20, 30 or more owners, and some brave trainers taking legal action to recoup training fees mostly, and some seeking damages if course curators turn out G1 and G2 tracks with trainers running their horses simply through what they deem necessity. A class action against the track manager would never stand up in court. For a couple of simple reasons the track manager presented the track to the best of his ability but is constrained by issues outside of his control. Secondly all trainers could have walked the track before scratching time and scratched their horses. The trainers chose to race. In that regard I know from personal experience that very few trainers walk the track on raceday. When I owned horses I made a habit of doing it. One day at Te Rapa on a Premier Day I was the only person to walk the track - no jockeys, no trainers. Actually no one asked me who I was and what was I doing! I've never understood why they don't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 12 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: A class action against the track manager would never stand up in court. For a couple of simple reasons the track manager presented the track to the best of his ability but is constrained by issues outside of his control. Secondly all trainers could have walked the track before scratching time and scratched their horses. The trainers chose to race. In that regard I know from personal experience that very few trainers walk the track on raceday. When I owned horses I made a habit of doing it. One day at Te Rapa on a Premier Day I was the only person to walk the track - no jockeys, no trainers. Actually no one asked me who I was and what was I doing! I've never understood why they don't do it. I agree, about walking the track I mean, when you train for a rails bookmaker who thought nothing of putting 20K on his horse if you declared it, you had to leave no stone unturned........and you see many of the professional jocks doing it nowadays. I remember seeing Aidan O'Brien and his sons walking the track at Epsom and Ascot prior to a days racing, but so many are too busy, or deem themselves to be too busy or too lazy........one stable here fly a drone over the track? a bloody drone? yep, that'll work, as to your other comment re track manager, the owner suing here is doing so as the grass track mentioned was notorious for horses breaking down, most of the learned trainers avoided it like the plague......it's a touchy issue and very convoluted this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 (edited) Just listening to a women on farming show in north otago saying they have only had 250 mm of rain this year,or something like thatI think I'm hearing correct,food for thought when considering needing a AWT,just a though,North Otago,South Canterbury,mostly dry. I'm kind of neutral on the AWT,as long as it dont impinge on the normal setup. Edited October 7, 2020 by mikeynz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 18 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: I've never understood why they don't do it. For the same reason most go out without a plan A far less a plan B or C . Go into any jockey room and the majority wouldn't know the colors of horses they should be watching or what the map of the race might be . Ask the what their plan is from gate 11 , jump and hope it opens up for them , very rarely does , then they just sit wide , don't slide forward or go back . Twice in a row the same jockey sat 3 wide in the open on my horse , both times they said the horse could've easily gone up outside leader but they never thought to do it , just sat where they landed . Didn't ride it again . A lot of trainers are happy to leave it up to the jock , now that is ok if it's OP but there is very few in this country that i would allow to do what they thought . Op and Waddell are the only 2 i will have a decent punt on with any confidence , the rest are just a lucky dip . IMHO . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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