More INCOMPETENCE in the Sth Island

[Pitman]

30 minutes ago, Freda said:

Yes, good result,  the mare was badly injured but, for once, a happy ending and Meg's first winner.  Her Dad was on course as well, making the day even more special for them.

Overall, another great day and a huge crowd. 

I noticed a petition doing the rounds at Greymouth,  presumably carried through to Reefton and yesterday, for Hokitika getting a day on the circuit again.  Not at the Westland track, of course - which is a real shame IMO -  but four days does make the trip a bit more viable for some trainers from out of the district. 

What must be frustrating for the Westland folk, is that any 'improvements '  that NZTR may have deemed necessary for the club to continue,  could have been done without industry financing.  They had the money.

Yes they did, but they gave away many thousands of dollars along with the racecourse. Maybe they now regret what they did and they should. The circuit would have been four days if Westland had “worked in” with NZTR . But no that President and committee wiped out 150 years of voluntary work, owners and trainers support now they are wanting to resurrect their identity. By the way I signed the petition but I am happy just supporting Reefton and Kumara

[Reefton]

On 9/01/2021 at 1:15 AM, the galah said:

Thats the question. How does a vet get to help start a harness race,and how come the same vet lets horses start in both codes that other vets probably wouldn't?

 

21 hours ago, Thomass said:

Cheers for that reefer, hope this incident hasn't damaged her mentally...

...did she have stitches post race and was there blood streaming over her face as she came back to scale do you know?

Callaway recently complained " I'm the most drug tested jockey in NZ"

If Dick Francis included a cock up like this in a novel he'd have been laughed off...

How can 'Jockeys' not recognise their saddles ffs?

Did some research at Kumara and yes indeed the vet did assist in starting one or two races at Westport. Explained he did not hear the starter's 'go' comment - whatever it is - due to background noise.

And the horse did seem to have significant and multiple wounds from pictures taken the next day yes

[Tesio]

50 minutes ago, Freda said:

Yes, good result,  the mare was badly injured but, for once, a happy ending and Meg's first winner.  Her Dad was on course as well, making the day even more special for them.

Overall, another great day and a huge crowd. 

I noticed a petition doing the rounds at Greymouth,  presumably carried through to Reefton and yesterday, for Hokitika getting a day on the circuit again.  Not at the Westland track, of course - which is a real shame IMO -  but four days does make the trip a bit more viable for some trainers from out of the district. 

What must be frustrating for the Westland folk, is that any 'improvements '  that NZTR may have deemed necessary for the club to continue,  could have been done without industry financing.  They had the money.

Wow........They give the finger to the Industry and now they want the Industry to support them......this isn’t the 1st of April.

[Chief Stipe]

13 hours ago, Tesio said:

Track issues today at Kumara. How does that happen on a Dead 6 

The same way this happens on a D4 at Riccarton.  When maidens run 1:07.

[Chief Stipe]

25 minutes ago, Pitman said:

By the way I signed the petition but I am happy just supporting Reefton and Kumara

But not Greymouth?

[Reefton]

35 minutes ago, Pitman said:

Yes they did, but they gave away many thousands of dollars along with the racecourse. Maybe they now regret what they did and they should. The circuit would have been four days if Westland had “worked in” with NZTR . But no that President and committee wiped out 150 years of voluntary work, owners and trainers support now they are wanting to resurrect their identity. By the way I signed the petition but I am happy just supporting Reefton and Kumara

 

20 minutes ago, Tesio said:

Wow........They give the finger to the Industry and now they want the Industry to support them......this isn’t the 1st of April.

Just to clarify it is the four West Coast Clubs seeking the fourth day not Westland itself.  Westland are probably realistic that they have burned their bridges and that the industry no longer wants their participation or contribution. One would expect it would go to Greymouth but we also want the circuit extended.  The provisional date calendar next year is a five day Tuesday Thursday Saturday sequence which squeezes my Club particularly numbers wise and you all know how much I like my Club being squeezed by the hierarchy.  There were at least two notable absentee trainers this time and if it will take a longer spread of dates and an extra day then I do not think that is unreasonable.  Whether we get it of course.........

Edited January 9, 2021 by Reefton

[Chief Stipe]

23 minutes ago, Tesio said:

Wow........They give the finger to the Industry and now they want the Industry to support them......this isn’t the 1st of April.

The industry gave them the finger.  Before you all get starry eyed with sanctimony it might pay to remember what the Messara report wants to happen to the West Coast.  Also don't forget that Reefton has had a stay of execution only.

You also may wish to look at the "extra" day on the Coast as a day for THE COAST not for Hokitika.

All very easy to apply revisionist history but don't forget what the Agenda is.

38 minutes ago, Pitman said:

Yes they did, but they gave away many thousands of dollars along with the racecourse.

The didn't "give the money away" to some dodgy cause nor piss it up against the wall which we see happening repeatedly at so called Premier Clubs they gave it back to their community.

38 minutes ago, Pitman said:

But no that President and committee wiped out 150 years of voluntary work, owners and trainers support now they are wanting to resurrect their identity.

 Yes 150 years of voluntary work and stuff all support from the Ivory Towers.  Any civic minded non-self interested person would applaud them giving back to the community that had created the asset.  Let's face it we are only talking about a quarter of the annual deficit that the new sand dune track will create at Riccarton!

[Chief Stipe]

8 minutes ago, Reefton said:

The provisional date calendar next year is a five day Tuesday Thursday Saturday sequence which squeezes my Club particularly numbers wise and you all know how much I like my Club being squeezed by the hierarchy. 

That's a daft proposal but reflective of a CEO who believes you gallop a horse everyday!  The cynic in me says there is an alternative reason for it as it benefits only one club not the three.  "Squeeze" is the appropriate term for it.  I imagine there will be a "take it or leave it" caveat to the "proposal"!

[Reefton]

And given that we have outdone Greymouth on course turnover wise in consecutive years, have consistently produced a superior track surface to any of the other Clubs and a consequent better standard of racing I will be asking for Reefton to be given one of the weekend dates rather than a weekday.

Whether we get it of course .........

Apart from anything else it is logical because the gates stay at Reefton and having us first or last means less cartage.

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Apart from anything else it is logical because the gates stay at Reefton and having us first or last means less cartage.

Reefton that makes too much sense!

[Reefton]

54 minutes ago, Pitman said:

Yes they did, but they gave away many thousands of dollars along with the racecourse. Maybe they now regret what they did and they should. The circuit would have been four days if Westland had “worked in” with NZTR . But no that President and committee wiped out 150 years of voluntary work, owners and trainers support now they are wanting to resurrect their identity. By the way I signed the petition but I am happy just supporting Reefton and Kumara

I have said it before and will say it again - the responsibility for the Westland debacle lies squarely at the door of the bull at a gate behaviour of the Racing Board and NZTR.  They attacked the Club and the club retaliated.

All they (NZRB and NZTR) had to do was be patient  and they would have got the lot but oh no that was too hard for this mob.   They kept poking the bear then expressed surprise and dismay when it reacted.

In any case they would probably have only pissed the money up against the wall regardless.  They always do.

[curious]

48 minutes ago, Tesio said:

Wow........They give the finger to the Industry and now they want the Industry to support them......this isn’t the 1st of April.

I'd say it was more like the industry gave them the finger, possibly a couple and they reacted as they did which seems appropriate to me in the face of that kind of treatment.

[Tesio]

6 minutes ago, curious said:

I'd say it was more like the industry gave them the finger, possibly a couple and they reacted as they did which seems appropriate to me in the face of that kind of treatment.

Maybe they should get the land and money back before they sit back down at the big boys table 

[curious]

9 minutes ago, Tesio said:

Maybe they should get the land and money back before they sit back down at the big boys table 

Why? They are a viable racing club with money in the bank, loaned money to Kumara last season and are supporting the idea of a 4th day in the circuit. They don't need land for that do they? Nor any more money for that matter.

[Tesio]

2 minutes ago, curious said:

Why? They are a viable racing club with money in the bank, loaned money to Kumara last season and are supporting the idea of a 4th day in the circuit. They don't need land for that do they? Nor any more money for that matter.

So your telling me a strong balance sheet for the future is not needed? They could have sold the land, added the proceeds to their bank account, kept their existing cash instead of giving that away and had a even stronger cash position for the future of the club. But no........

[Reefton]

8 minutes ago, Tesio said:

So your telling me a strong balance sheet for the future is not needed? They could have sold the land, added the proceeds to their bank account, kept their existing cash instead of giving that away and had a even stronger cash position for the future of the club. But no........

So if Westland should have done that you will be agreeing with me about what all the fat cat clubs should be doing with their extremely valuable and poor performing (rate of return wise) real estate (which would be worth hundreds - if not thousands - of times what Westland's was of course)

[mikeynz]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

That's a daft proposal but reflective of a CEO who believes you gallop a horse everyday!  The cynic in me says there is an alternative reason for it as it benefits only one club not the three.  "Squeeze" is the appropriate term for it.  I imagine there will be a "take it or leave it" caveat to the "proposal"!

Maybe it would make more sense to race Reefton wednesday,Kumara,saturday,Greymouth tuesday.

Edited January 9, 2021 by mikeynz

[Tesio]

3 minutes ago, Reefton said:

So if Westland should have done that you will be agreeing with me about what all the fat cat clubs should be doing with their extremely valuable and poor performing (rate of return wise) real estate (which would be worth hundreds - if not thousands - of times what Westland's was of course)

No i dont agree.  Your like a broken record reefton ........ we need country racing and city racing. Comparing to the actions Westland took v’s how city clubs are operated and their rate of returns are two seperate matters. The fact of the matter is Westland gave the finger to the INDUSTRY and gave everything  away, instead of thinking how they can retain their balance sheet and use those funds for the betterment of West Coast racing. 

[Huey]

42 minutes ago, Tesio said:

No i dont agree.  Your like a broken record reefton ........ we need country racing and city racing. Comparing to the actions Westland took v’s how city clubs are operated and their rate of returns are two seperate matters. The fact of the matter is Westland gave the finger to the INDUSTRY and gave everything  away, instead of thinking how they can retain their balance sheet and use those funds for the betterment of West Coast racing. 

Laughable Tesio!

You expect the smaller clubs to expose themselves to the whims of the industry and not look to protect themselves in the long run , whilst the bigger clubs remain a protected species no matter what they do or achieve in the industry. Many of the larger clubs are gifted dates,funding,exposure and still perform inadequately (not to mention this argument always seem to present itself at this time of year when race goers are actually attending meetings at the larger venues, which btw is a given at this time of the year ), it isn't a level playing field and never has been and is only getting worse for the smaller venues, I say good on them for doing what they wanted to do with the asset they created.

I think its been stated on here already that it would be better for some of the larger clubs to forego their assets for the betterment of the industry , so why don't they?

[Chief Stipe]

59 minutes ago, Tesio said:

No i dont agree.  Your like a broken record reefton ........ we need country racing and city racing. Comparing to the actions Westland took v’s how city clubs are operated and their rate of returns are two seperate matters. The fact of the matter is Westland gave the finger to the INDUSTRY and gave everything  away, instead of thinking how they can retain their balance sheet and use those funds for the betterment of West Coast racing. 

You are entitled to your view Tesio but you don't appear to have any understanding of country racing nor West Coast racing in particular.

If my father was alive today he would respond to your opinion with an educated (albeit West Coast secondary schooled) articulate discourse that would be delivered with such passion and strength that would make Reefton look like a meek school girl.

I'll spell it out for you WESTLAND DID NOT GIVE THE FINGER TO THE INDUSTRY.  No one really knows why but Kumara became the favoured venue by the racing bureaucrats and gained the title iconic or historical or whatever the hell they gave it.  Now Kumara is a shit hole and a veritable dump.  The track is built on the poorest piece of dirt on the entire West Coast.  It always has been.  It gained notoriety as a venue because of an advantageous race day gifted to it and the fact that it played on its hicksville attraction and enticed Cantabrians to venture "over the hill" for a day out with the hill billy's.  It gained further notoriety when under threat from the NZRB to force its closure in the early 80's they invited Muldoon to the party - watered and fed him and the day was saved.  The same approach was taken with Winston Peters (a brown Muldoon) in later years and again Kumara has been saved.

Kumara has a population of 300 but even the locals would admit that that is a bit of an exaggeration and probably includes a few dogs in the total.

Westland Racing Club (WRC) was formed in 1865.  Both horse codes have raced there over the years.  They even had a Hokitika Trotting Cup in the late 19th Century and I was fortunate enough as a child to see the cup in the home of the late Ted Lowe in Hinds.  It towered over the NZ Trotting Cups that Ted had alongside it.

The WRC like a lot of country clubs was always a community asset from the beginning.  Indeed it was the home of the Westland AMP show right from the very beginning and its assets grew because of that.  Some may forget that the Metropolitan Trotting Club in Christchurch also grew on the back of the Royal Show as did the Auckland Trotting Club.

So rather than bore you with a detailed history of the club I'll make the point that it started as a community asset and has always remained a community asset.  Its facilities over the years have had more than one purpose - I recall once seeing the Moscow Circus there (a real circus with real Lions and Elephants!).

Hokitika a town of 3,500 - a tidy clean modern town and a relatively forward thinking town when you compare it to its larger cousin up the road Greymouth.

My father was a committee member and donated a lot of his time and his business staff time to helping keep things ship shape.  I remember helping him at working bees when I was a lad.  He sponsored races and along with the local Parish priest (Father Bill Middleton) helped build a trotting training track on the inside of the course proper during the 70's. 

Now the towns on the West Coast are all very parochial - there are actually provinces within provinces e.g. Buller, Inangahua, Grey, Grey Valley, Westland, South Westland.  It is understandable that they are because each of them has their own challenges for survival and have eked out an existence in a difficult region to do that.  Sadly you can't live on scenic views and fresh air alone.

So when the administrators once again wielded their big stick and once again made Kumara the protected species what outcome would you expect from the Hokitika community?  Why would they sell their asset which morally (arguably legally) is a community asset and spend their cash on moving to Kumara?  Kumara might only be 17 miles away but there is nothing there!  No businesses like my father's to sponsor races nor more importantly to help maintain assets.  No youth groups like my Harrier club to use the venue every week as part of their Sunday run. Nothing!  Zip! Nada! Not even a venue or facility good enough to securely stable and train horses on!

The assumption is falsely made by the administrators that because it has Racing in its club title the assets are Industry assets.  I'm afraid they are having a rude awakening.  So Tesio when you say WRC gave the finger to the industry I suggest you think again.  What WRC didn't do was give in and give the finger to THEIR COMMUNITY!

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Tesio said:

They could have sold the land,

Morally and probably legally it wasn't the Club's land to sell.  Not that you would have got much for it anyway.  As I said earlier probably wouldn't cover the annual deficit of the AWT's!

[Reefton]

16 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Morally and probably legally it wasn't the Club's land to sell.  Not that you would have got much for it anyway.  As I said earlier probably wouldn't cover the annual deficit of the AWT's!

Fair comment.  It would have been worth far less than the terrace up the back(the sale of which produced the cash in the first place). They might have ended up with $500k in the kitty.

[Chief Stipe]

5 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Fair comment.  It would have been worth far less than the terrace up the back(the sale of which produced the cash in the first place). They might have ended up with $500k in the kitty.

But try telling that to people who are only looking through city real estate value eyes!

So assuming they found a purchaser for the property which I imagine would take some time and they have $500k in the kitty.  How long is that going to last especially when they would be "investing" in something that they have no control over and is a basket case anyway i.e. Kumara?

[Reefton]

4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

But try telling that to people who are only looking through city real estate value eyes!

So assuming they found a purchaser for the property which I imagine would take some time and they have $500k in the kitty.  How long is that going to last especially when they would be "investing" in something that they have no control over and is a basket case anyway i.e. Kumara?

Let's not knock Kumara too much. They do run the pinnacle event of the Coast circuit(when they are able to run it that is) and really is the only reason we get any attention at all.  

For all that I believe they are not terribly financial and would no doubt have loved Westland's dosh but the other Clubs have always been a bit pissed with the KRC  in that all the horse accommodation is provided by the other Clubs - but do you think the KRC committee would help prepare the boxes or clean up after everyone has departed?  Not bloody likely!  I do not think Westland or any other Coast Club would be busting to give money to the KRC.

And one wonders, given their turnovers and the attention they get, where they spend their money? The money Westland 'lent' them was for their share of the gates a few years back but came from Diane Howe not the WRC

[Chief Stipe]

22 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Let's not knock Kumara too much. They do run the pinnacle event of the Coast circuit(when they are able to run it that is) and really is the only reason we get any attention at all.  

 

But that ignores the fundamentals which are the basis of your argument against the likes of Ellerslie?  If the pinnacle is not attained on the basis of fundamentals but exaggerated fluff and hype then how is that sustainable in the long run?

You said it yourself when you referred to Kumara's financial status cf with the Westland Racing Club.  Isn't there a fundamental lesson in there somewhere?