JCA - M Kerr Decision

[Newmarket]

Paul Kerr gone very quiet on this, only a few weeks ago he was saying the rumours were not true??? Oh deary me, everyone that has covered up for this guy??

[the galah]

1 hour ago, Newmarket said:

Totally agree with you both, If Bates is getting hassled, thats a bloody shame. If people had come forward earlier, instead of covering everything up, many of those customers would not have been fleeced. 
 

Its what i have said, people are loyal to the crooks of harness, owners support crooks, they do not care what they get charged on, they just keep going back, and back. 
 

I feel a little sick about the game recently,

People should not be discouraged when wrong doing is uncovered ,they should be discouraged when it is not.Like i have said,unfortunately the harness industry is not spinning the news cycle in a positive way for itself.

Personally I view most of the recent news in a positive way,although the jimmy cannon being put down after it was illegally pre race treated, is a negative story only.

But newmarket hit the nail on the head when he says many owners are loyal to those who do illegal things to gain an advantage. The reason for that loyalty is mostly for personal gain.Many owners are hypocrites when it comes to some of the illegal activity.They want the rules enforced,but just not against their trainers. Many owners even expect and pressure their trainers to do so. Remember the blue magic saga.  The best answer is effective and consistent enforcement of the rules. 

[Chief Stipe]

5 hours ago, the galah said:

Personally I view most of the recent news in a positive way,although the jimmy cannon being put down after it was illegally pre race treated, is a negative story only.

Yet you say NOTHING, ZIP, NADA about HRNZ improving their systems and administration to prevent the fraud committed in the Kerr case.  Most if not all of his crimes could have been protected if administration procedures had been put in place to PROTECT owners.  

Sometimes I wonder if you are an ex cop and focused on the kill and the score board.  That's probably why INCA was an abject failure yet you class it as a positive because it caught people for things other than what it was investigating.

What do we get from Woodham - nothing to close the loop holes and make positive changes to the administration of harness racing but a naive nothing statement saying "I expect all participants to act with integrity and honesty"!  FFS easy for him to say while sitting in his over paid ivory tower doing SFA now and previously at the TAB.  Meanwhile the average training can barely scrape a living from the game.

 

[Chief Stipe]

17 hours ago, Gammalite said:

50 people have been effected greatly by this deception. cover-up shouldn't be an option. Is a Great Warning for all the people wanting to buy into a horse , to watch out for these sort of rorts.

 

Which as you know have gone on for years.  Where is the protection for the Owners?  

Come on Woodham - make a positive statement to the press that HRNZ is putting systems in place to stop the over selling of syndicates and the selling of non-existent insurance policies!!!

For example does HRNZ still pay the Stakes won to the Syndicate Manager?  Why not pay it directly to each of the owners in the syndicate?  They can split it for Trainers and Drivers how hard is it to go a step further?

WTF does HRNZ do for the $6m a year they spend?  Note that that $6m will increase this year due to the devolving of functions from NZRB/RITA/TAB-NZ.  Also note that the published 5 year business plan ended in 2020.  When is the next one coming?

[Rangatira]

24 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

What do we get from Woodham - nothing to close the loop holes and make positive changes to the administration of harness racing but a naive nothing statement saying "I expect all participants to act with integrity and honesty"!  FFS easy for him to say while sitting in his over paid ivory tower doing SFA now and previously at the TAB.  Meanwhile the average training can barely scrape a living from the game.

we dont here much from this woodham, seemed like a real front footer to begin with

hopefully he is not "off n gone" already

[Basil]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Yet you say NOTHING, ZIP, NADA about HRNZ improving their systems and administration to prevent the fraud committed in the Kerr case.  Most if not all of his crimes could have been protected if administration procedures had been put in place to PROTECT owners.  

Sometimes I wonder if you are an ex cop and focused on the kill and the score board.  That's probably why INCA was an abject failure yet you class it as a positive because it caught people for things other than what it was investigating.

What do we get from Woodham - nothing to close the loop holes and make positive changes to the administration of harness racing but a naive nothing statement saying "I expect all participants to act with integrity and honesty"!  FFS easy for him to say while sitting in his over paid ivory tower doing SFA now and previously at the TAB.  Meanwhile the average training can barely scrape a living from the game.

 

Oh come on, this is just victim-blaming. Any system, no matter how robust, can be rorted. The only person at fault here is Kerr and it's time to stop the excuses and blame-shifting.

[Chief Stipe]

30 minutes ago, Basil said:

Oh come on, this is just victim-blaming. Any system, no matter how robust, can be rorted. The only person at fault here is Kerr and it's time to stop the excuses and blame-shifting.

I realise Basil you are in the baying for blood carrion eating vulture mob BUT shouldn't there be systems in place to protect owners AND trainers?  

What has that to do with victim-blaming?  I guess you adhere to the Jacinda Arden model of kindness - let's slam the front-line MIQ worker that didn't get tested for 6 months and call for his blood to hide the fact that the systems in place failed.

Isn't it the role of HRNZ to have systems in place?  Sure if you try hard enough I guess any system can be rorted particularly it is a shyte system but that is NO excuse to have NO system in place.  How hard would it be to have an ownership system where an owner can check centrally who owns how much of the horse they have invested in?  How hard would it be to register on file centrally a copy of the insurance policy and premium payments made?  

You have register centrally all the interests in a $5,000 motor car but you don't have to do that for a $50,000 standardbred yearling?  Come on Basil!

Other jurisdictions have had the same issues as the Kerr case highlights and are doing something to address them.  Why the hell can't our own HRNZ do the same?  Or at least go on the front foot and say that they are instituting administrative changes to make these things harder to do.  The fact is everyone bangs on about it being a professional sport but it sure is run by a bunch of amateurs.

So Basil once you get over your blood lust why don't you direct your energy to bringing about some positive change?

 

[the galah]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Yet you say NOTHING, ZIP, NADA about HRNZ improving their systems and administration to prevent the fraud committed in the Kerr case.  Most if not all of his crimes could have been protected if administration procedures had been put in place to PROTECT owners.  

Sometimes I wonder if you are an ex cop and focused on the kill and the score board.  That's probably why INCA was an abject failure yet you class it as a positive because it caught people for things other than what it was investigating.

What do we get from Woodham - nothing to close the loop holes and make positive changes to the administration of harness racing but a naive nothing statement saying "I expect all participants to act with integrity and honesty"!  FFS easy for him to say while sitting in his over paid ivory tower doing SFA now and previously at the TAB.  Meanwhile the average training can barely scrape a living from the game.

 

Same old,same old. I posted "like"  in response to one of your and long owners replies which offered positive suggestions as to how syndicate oversight should be improved. I have not posted any thoughts on that side of things,as i know little of how syndicates work or are adimistrated.

So i'm an ex cop. Thats funny.

When it comes to INCA, your focus is always on the negative,and you completely ignore the positives to come from it. If you were to argue that the positives had been outweighed by the negatives,then i could understand where you came from. But no,thats not your agenda.

So its mr woodhams fault that the average trainer "can barely scrape a living from the game". Its Mr woodham that you find fault with when you read these articles on wrongdoing by former trainers.  Same old,same old.

Edited April 14, 2021 by the galah

[Chief Stipe]

8 minutes ago, the galah said:

When it comes to INCA, your focus is always on the negative,and you completely ignore the positives to come from it. If you were to argue that the positives had been outweighed by the negatives,then i could understand where you came from. But no,thats not your agenda.

But what has INCA actually achieved?  Other than cost millions which could have been spent better spent elsewhere.

The best you can come up with is it was some form of marketing exercise signalling to all those supposedly cheating that the RIU is doing something.

All it did do is show that they are expensively incompetent.  They have to score any direct goals!

You could spin a positive by saying "well the fact that after having spent millions they found nothing is a good indicator there was nothing to find!"

14 minutes ago, the galah said:

So its mr woodhams fault that the average trainer "can barely scrape a living from the game". Its Mr woodham that you find fault with when you read these articles on wrongdoing by former trainers

Yes I put a large part of the blame on him and his ilk who have been paid risk free salaries for years and have done NOTHING but drive the industry into the ground.  To the point where it is hard for any but a handful of harness trainers to make a professional living from racing.

I also expect more positive action from administrators than simply saying glib marketing spin.  Is it any wonder the industry is in free fall?

A lot of the recent fall out that we are seeing is symptomatic of the fundamental issues NOT the cause.

[LongOwner]

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Yet you say NOTHING, ZIP, NADA about HRNZ improving their systems and administration to prevent the fraud committed in the Kerr case.  Most if not all of his crimes could have been protected if administration procedures had been put in place to PROTECT owners.  

Sometimes I wonder if you are an ex cop and focused on the kill and the score board.  That's probably why INCA was an abject failure yet you class it as a positive because it caught people for things other than what it was investigating.

What do we get from Woodham - nothing to close the loop holes and make positive changes to the administration of harness racing but a naive nothing statement saying "I expect all participants to act with integrity and honesty"!  FFS easy for him to say while sitting in his over paid ivory tower doing SFA now and previously at the TAB.  Meanwhile the average training can barely scrape a living from the game.

 

Give HRNZ a chance - getting an approved syndicate model which is not like an Air NZ float but approved by internal affairs will be a battle. 
The model the govt agency thinks should be followed will add $10k p.a. accounting fees and $25 k minimum  prospectus fees  per horse . 
 

Unrealistic on a $15-$75 k horse purchase which may make a small net profit.

So it is not a case of let’s draft something - if they do it wrong it will destroy syndicates due to admin charges - they (HRNZ) may have to have an in-house cost effective  auditor for syndicates which the syndicate pays an acceptable fee for the service . 
Saying that it should be on the ASAP agenda and may in fact be worked on already .

It is not straight forward to get a document which is sensible and govt dept approved .

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, LongOwner said:

Give HRNZ a chance - getting an approved syndicate model which is not like an Air NZ float but approved by internal affairs will be a battle. 
The model the govt agency thinks should be followed will add $10k p.a. accounting fees and $25 k minimum  prospectus fees  per horse . 
 

Unrealistic on a $15-$75 k horse purchase which may make a small net profit.

So it is not a case of let’s draft something - if they do it wrong it will destroy syndicates due to admin charges - they (HRNZ) may have to have an in-house cost effective  auditor for syndicates which the syndicate pays an acceptable fee for the service . 
Saying that it should be on the ASAP agenda and may in fact be worked on already .

It is not straight forward to get a document which is sensible and govt dept approved .

What the hell does it have to do with the DIA?

I'm not proposing that HRNZ manage syndicates but just that they register ownership and financial interest data centrally and readily available to all participating owners.  How hard is that?  

When an owner gets a bill and it says 5% of training fees at $90 a day and that 5% matches the central register then all is good.

But it appears currently we have a system where shares can be oversold and horses sales and transfers are not registered promptly.

[LongOwner]

5 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

What the hell does it have to do with the DIA?

I'm not proposing that HRNZ manage syndicates but just that they register ownership and financial interest data centrally and readily available to all participating owners.  How hard is that?  

When an owner gets a bill and it says 5% of training fees at $90 a day and that 5% matches the central register then all is good.

But it appears currently we have a system where shares can be oversold and horses sales and transfers are not registered 

[LongOwner]

Just now, LongOwner said:

6 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

What the hell does it have to do with the DIA?

I'm not proposing that HRNZ manage syndicates but just that they register ownership and financial interest data centrally and readily available to all participating owners.  How hard is that?  

When an owner gets a bill and it says 5% of training fees at $90 a day and that 5% matches the central register then all is good.

But it appears currently we have a system where shares can be oversold and horses sales and transfers are not registered 

Expand  

Karaka is DIA approved and costs. 

DIA are suggesting a syndicate is investment with an intended profit therefore needs the same rules as company float etc 

They will say Mitchell Kerr case is why they should be involved .

My understanding but I maybe wrong.

[JJ Flash]

2 hours ago, Basil said:

Oh come on, this is just victim-blaming. Any system, no matter how robust, can be rorted. The only person at fault here is Kerr and it's time to stop the excuses and blame-shifting.

Intelligent  succinct post as usual from you Basil. Nailed it again.

[Rangatira]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

But what has INCA actually achieved?  Other than cost millions which could have been spent better spent elsewhere.

in the way of race fixing nothing yet

are they looking for more experts to interpret the "evidence"

once its over victoria might have a few vague lines and photos of say, mitch kerr, amberley racecourse, jimmy cannon and possibly matt anderson

[Gammalite]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

I'm not proposing that HRNZ manage syndicates but just that they register ownership and financial interest data centrally and readily available to all participating owners.  How hard is that?  

I think you would find syndicates are registered at HRNZ already, and that is how they appear in the racebook.

The HRNZ would be No Chance of controlling the everyday components and finances of the syndicate operation. Fees, shares ,etc, the figures supplied to them could easily be false and rorted as Basil suggested. The Kerr case could easily happen again even with your central registry. you need Honest Syndicate managers.

Friend of mine has 1/20 in his first horse a thoroughbred . Of course he has no say whatsoever in where it races, who rides it etc, but gets an e-mail every second day, video of horse weekly, all jumpouts sent to him, and monthly account breakdown of his share , with all the bills, taxes, winnings . IIt's up to the SYNDICATE MANAGER to Look after their owners !!!!!  they are busting for them to Win really ! they love happy owners. (except Kerr)

Kerr just a bad egg who was only about winning himself on the Punt. and made very poor reading at start of this thread. (and not even owning up) rotten.But surely No one else could be that rotten and do that to their owners?.

so hopefully a once off? and 'happy racing' can resume for All those effected now. 

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, Gammalite said:

The HRNZ would be No Chance of controlling the everyday components and finances of the syndicate operation. Fees, shares ,etc, the figures supplied to them could easily be false and rorted as Basil suggested. The Kerr case could easily happen again even with your central registry. you need Honest Syndicate managers.

 

Wrong Gammalite.  You miss the point and I'm surprised so many other people are missing it as well.

Two scenario's could be resolved by HRNZ maintaining and keeping up to date a central registry accessible by every owner who had a pecuniary interest in a Standardbred be it a racehorse, yearling or breeding proposition.

We do it with damn motor cars and other motor vehicle assets why is it so hard for HRNZ to do it for the asset that drives the industry the bloody horse.

So every owner signs an ownership form that details what % share they have of an identified horse that is already registered in the system - i.e. it has a freeze brand.  HRNZ's system checks that the % of those who have signed an ownership form is not greater than 100%.  Any owner then able to sign in online and check that the % they signed up to equals what is in the system!!!!!  Get it?

If an owner is charged for insurance of the horse they have a share in i.e. the horse is insured then that interest is again registered with HRNZ.  Both the owner AND the insurance company have a pecuniary interest in the horse.  Both the Owner and the Insurance Company can sign in and check online.

HOW BLOODY HARD IS THAT TO DO?  If it was done then Kerr couldn't have committed at least two of the examples of fraud that he has been charged for.  

If HRNZ aren't charged with protecting the interests of stakeholders WTF are they there for?!

It really pisses me off no end that supposed industry fans are really quick to double down on ANYONE that is caught doing something wrong (minor or major) yet let the HRNZ administration just keep blithely going along spending millions of dollars doing Sweet Fanny Adams!  

[hunterthepunter]

3 hours ago, Rangatira said:

in the way of race fixing nothing yet

are they looking for more experts to interpret the "evidence"

once its over victoria might have a few vague lines and photos of say, mitch kerr, amberley racecourse, jimmy cannon and possibly matt anderson

who is Victoria and Amberley  racecourse ranga?

[Gammalite]

52 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Wrong Gammalite.  You miss the point and I'm surprised so many other people are missing it as well.

Two scenario's could be resolved by HRNZ maintaining and keeping up to date a central registry accessible by every owner who had a pecuniary interest in a Standardbred be it a racehorse, yearling or breeding proposition.

We do it with damn motor cars and other motor vehicle assets why is it so hard for HRNZ to do it for the asset that drives the industry the bloody horse.

So every owner signs an ownership form that details what % share they have of an identified horse that is already registered in the system - i.e. it has a freeze brand.  HRNZ's system checks that the % of those who have signed an ownership form is not greater than 100%.  Any owner then able to sign in online and check that the % they signed up to equals what is in the system!!!!!  Get it?

If an owner is charged for insurance of the horse they have a share in i.e. the horse is insured then that interest is again registered with HRNZ.  Both the owner AND the insurance company have a pecuniary interest in the horse.  Both the Owner and the Insurance Company can sign in and check online.

HOW BLOODY HARD IS THAT TO DO?  If it was done then Kerr couldn't have committed at least two of the examples of fraud that he has been charged for.  

If HRNZ aren't charged with protecting the interests of stakeholders WTF are they there for?!

It really pisses me off no end that supposed industry fans are really quick to double down on ANYONE that is caught doing something wrong (minor or major) yet let the HRNZ administration just keep blithely going along spending millions of dollars doing Sweet Fanny Adams!  

Well and Good Chief , IF everything was a mathematical accurate statistic for every horse, but reality is Most cases horse ownerships are individual set -up's. Each tailored to the ownership group.

The HRNZ could have a data base , but would be totally reliant on information received from The Horse rep /manager. They are Not collecting the training fees/ they are not paying the owners stakes. Every case is different.

Some shareholders Pay more than others for various reasons.

example Some shareholders pay nothing (I paid nothing ever, of the expenses of all the horses I have raced, as the other part owners did that while I did the work with the horses) Therefore the reality was a bloke with a 1/4 share in one , actually paid a third of the bills like feed, transport, shoeing, vet. BUT in return got No training fee bill. I just collected stake-money and had fun with the horse.

Many many different scenario's like that. Silent partners? like a family or work group paying one share. not uncommon. bulk discount if a few horses in stables? , heaps of trainers have shares in their horses ? which effects the fees and stake money paid out. etc

WAY to COMPLICATED for HRNZ to manage. It's up to the Syndicate manager to contact/ collect/ pay the shareholders.

Imagine 4 blokes in a horse telling the HRNZ 4 different stories about their share ownership ?? Impossible. ? you have to rely on the bloke with the horse , e.g like Mr Kerr, to do the right thing .  If there is actually a horse in his case lol........

 

[Chief Stipe]

34 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

The HRNZ could have a data base , but would be totally reliant on information received from The Horse rep /manager. They are Not collecting the training fees/ they are not paying the owners stakes. Every case is different.

Some shareholders Pay more than others for various reasons.

FFS Gammalite this isn't complex!

Example:

Kerr has a colt called Hand's Down.  He values it at $100,000.  He tells everyone that it is $10,000 for a 10% share.  Instead of 10 shares he sells 15 shares at $10,000 each.  Each person who buys a share thinks they are getting 10%.  None of them knows more than 2 or 3 of the other share holders.

So Kerr effectively sell Hand's Down for $150,000.  In reality the shareholders only have a 6.7% share.

Now to stop this rort is simple.  ALL Owners fill out a HRNZ ownership form that clearly states their % share.  HRNZ checks that the total ownership of Hand's Down is 100% NOT 150%.  If it isn't 100% then Hand's Down can't race or be sold.  Now the syndicate manager might be in on the rort so he when he files the Ownership papers instead of 10 owners with 10% he files 15 owners with 6.7% banking on none of the owners knowing everyone in on the ownership.  At the end of the day all you see in the racebook is the Syndicate name NOT individuals.  So the filed papers pass the first HRNZ check.

The second check in the system is as a registered owner you can access the HRNZ registry and check that you have the 10% you paid for.  

Now how hard is that?

Nothing to do with who pays more of the bills than others.  As you say that can be a private arrangement and of course it doesn't stop Kerr from inflating the bills sent to each of the other owners to cover his share, the syndicate manager's or his mates.

Now this approach as described would also stop one of the other rorts that we saw in the Kerr case where ownership was sold in a horse that didn't exist.  Every Standardbred is freeze branded and every Standardbred is recorded in the Stud Book and in HRNZ's registry.  If a change in ownership occurs then the process I've described above MUST be promptly followed.  If it was then there is no way someone could pay for share and get charged bills for a horse that didn't exist for OVER a YEAR!!!!!  

You could further tighten up the selling of registered horses by HRNZ having a compulsory escrow facility whereby the payment for shares in horses is paid and held in a HRNZ account until all conditions are met.  It isn't as if HRNZ doesn't charge enough for change of ownership transactions.

[Rangatira]

1 hour ago, hunterthepunter said:

who is Victoria and Amberley  racecourse ranga?

amberley racecourse is something irrelevant and in keeping with the rehashing

victoria is

martin vb

 

[the galah]

40 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

FFS Gammalite this isn't complex!

Example:

Kerr has a colt called Hand's Down.  He values it at $100,000.  He tells everyone that it is $10,000 for a 10% share.  Instead of 10 shares he sells 15 shares at $10,000 each.  Each person who buys a share thinks they are getting 10%.  None of them knows more than 2 or 3 of the other share holders.

So Kerr effectively sell Hand's Down for $150,000.  In reality the shareholders only have a 6.7% share.

Now to stop this rort is simple.  ALL Owners fill out a HRNZ ownership form that clearly states their % share.  HRNZ checks that the total ownership of Hand's Down is 100% NOT 150%.  If it isn't 100% then Hand's Down can't race or be sold.  Now the syndicate manager might be in on the rort so he when he files the Ownership papers instead of 10 owners with 10% he files 15 owners with 6.7% banking on none of the owners knowing everyone in on the ownership.  At the end of the day all you see in the racebook is the Syndicate name NOT individuals.  So the filed papers pass the first HRNZ check.

The second check in the system is as a registered owner you can access the HRNZ registry and check that you have the 10% you paid for.  

Now how hard is that?

Nothing to do with who pays more of the bills than others.  As you say that can be a private arrangement and of course it doesn't stop Kerr from inflating the bills sent to each of the other owners to cover his share, the syndicate manager's or his mates.

Now this approach as described would also stop one of the other rorts that we saw in the Kerr case where ownership was sold in a horse that didn't exist.  Every Standardbred is freeze branded and every Standardbred is recorded in the Stud Book and in HRNZ's registry.  If a change in ownership occurs then the process I've described above MUST be promptly followed.  If it was then there is no way someone could pay for share and get charged bills for a horse that didn't exist for OVER a YEAR!!!!!  

You could further tighten up the selling of registered horses by HRNZ having a compulsory escrow facility whereby the payment for shares in horses is paid and held in a HRNZ account until all conditions are met.  It isn't as if HRNZ doesn't charge enough for change of ownership transactions.

Not saying it won't work,but don't some of the bigger syndicates have hundreds of owners,and aren't the members in many syndicates often coming and going.

The record keeping around what you are suggesting would be rather time consuming,and wouldn't it be a case of user pays,making it all the more complicated and costly.

What about people like kerr saying they are training a horse when he wasn't.How are you going to solve that.If you were kerr,and you knew you couldn't deceive and rip off people in one way,you would just take another route for your deception.

I credit you for coming up with reasonable suggestions,but its not an easy fix.

[Chief Stipe]

Just now, the galah said:

Not saying it won't work,but don't some of the bigger syndicates have hundreds of owners,and aren't the members in many syndicates often coming and going.

So what if the person has only a 1% share or less?  It is only one line of data.  Someone has to keep track of the source data all they have to do is share it with the HRNZ registry.

2 minutes ago, the galah said:

The record keeping around what you are suggesting would be rather time consuming,and wouldn't it be a case of user pays,making it all the more complicated and costly.

 

As I said above - SOMEONE has to record the details and presumably electronically.  All they need to do is share it with a central registry.

But hell with Kerr in one case there was only TWO owners and in the other 6 or was it 7 owners.  Hardly onerous.  Geez as I keep saying people are quick to put the boot into those caught doing wrong but damn forgiving of the over paid administrators who seem to do nothing and have no responsibility.

Galah you are quick to talk about Harness Racing being a professional sport but why can't we have a professional administration system?

[Nowornever]

On 14/04/2021 at 4:19 PM, Brodie said:

They say that Mitch Kerr lost a helluva lot of money betting sith the Ladbrokes Bookmakers in Oz!

You would  think that the Bookies there would know who was losing so much money wouldnt you?

So the fact is that the Bookmakers didnt have any worries at all about a young NZ trainer losing huge money!

The NZ TAB advertises that they care about punters losing money!!

They also care about punters winning money as well, as they chop them off at the knees by restricting them to pathetic amounts!

So what punters do these Bookies actually want?

Yes Mitch was responsible for his actions and they were very bad actions and I dont condone any of them whatsoever!

What I do know is that the Bookies and the TAB’s are ruthless and do not care about their customers at all, or something would’ve been done to restrict Mr Kerr, who clearly was in trouble with his gambling!!!!

 

Must have been an absolute shit punter!

[Brodie]

14 minutes ago, Nowornever said:

Must have been an absolute shit punter!

Certainly wouldnt be classed as a successful one, that the NZ TAB would be scared of.

You wouldve thought that he shouldve cleaned up going by the success of his stable.

Obviously the NZ Bookies werent letting him on for much which seems like a mistake on their side!

This is exactly my continued point, that the NZ TAB should bd accepting begs from all punters as it is costing them big money!