Junior Driver Champs North verse South

[Jones]

4 hours ago, the galah said:

I guess your joking,

Umm elephant in the room, but moving on.

Yes if I was to see you guys point re just make it South based, thing is once something is done, its done, can't get it back or un-do something. 

Think about that again, once North is shut down JUST the South. Which then just leads to only the South shutting down, not the North and the South. You ideally want to slow the shut down. Delay as long as possible if there is to evidently in 30 years time be one. 

Brods answer to that question I asked recently is 71. But that is just what a member told me that was at a meeting. So as this is a public forum, its just 2nd hand, not 1st hand so may not be true. 

Well a true fun rivalry is starting North verse South Jnr drivers challenge. Excellent. Ohhh you guys are building yourselves up to be stomped down hahahaha. 

Lets see South Cheerleaders are

Brods/Ludwig/Gospel/Gamms some of my favourites 

& North cheerleaders are

Me/Taupiri/Elijay 

[Brodie]

6 hours ago, Taupiri Wonder said:

Yep,as long as you keep all The Neo Nazi's & White Supremacists in Christchurch & Southwards.

Plus,you can keep all the motorcycle gang members with their knives in Blenheim.

To be fair,  the two groups you mentioned are not prevalent in Christchurch nowadays!

As for gang members they should be outlawed, however this lot in power are just useless and we have to be kind!

[Ludwig]

1 minute ago, Brodie said:

To be fair,  the two groups you mentioned are not prevalent in Christchurch nowadays!

As for gang members they should be outlawed, however this lot in power are just useless and we have to be kind!

The obvious solution to the Norths various harness problems is clear. Put Cindy in charge, she can smile at everyone and give out hugs. Then Andrew Little can run heaps of reviews into earlier reviews to work out where all the money has gone.

[Brodie]

5 hours ago, Gammalite said:

I imagine you jest with this Brodster. ? surely stakemoney is an even distribution via sponsers and interested parties and HRNZ, and anyone racing in industry is worthy and 'deserving' of their share, whether Ruakaka or Winton.

don't see why drivers, trainers or horse numbers in training are anything to do with it. You want to win, you turn up.  

Auckland just won the super rugby final on TV the other day against South Island Highlanders. was on tele here in Brissy even and good game.

Perhaps we should Pay the NI Auckland teams more ? and base the rugby in Auckland , (as that is where the greater numbers are who participate) and reduce the stakes (pay) to Canterbury, Otago and that as don't deserve much. (The Brodster theory?)  

Tongue in cheek by me mate, all good.

..... the Auckland/Cambridge racing has been excellent lately . give em more I say ? just need some new drivers, as you and Jones suggested.

Hey you could Get the motorcycle gangs to do Letter box 'flyer' drops all through Auckland suburbs !!!, a free dinner voucher per person at the course , all that sort of thing. My dog would love to go 'right-off' at a Harley Davison pulling up at our mail-box too !!!

Galah, firstly the stake money is not evenly distributed and Auckland is getting far more than they deserve.

The betting turnover on most of their meetings is poor and the racing pretty much the same!

When most of your fields are small and you havent got enough Juniors to pay 3 tote divs there ks something drastically amiss!

Galah, to be fair, Canterbury was by far the best team but for an error by the coach in resting players, they wouldve made the final and bolted in!!

Edited June 23, 2021 by Brodie

[Ludwig]

4 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Galah, firstly the stake money is not evenly distributed and Auckland is getting far more than they deserve.

The betting turnover on most of their meetings is poor and the racing pretty much the same!

When most of your fields are small and you havent got enough Juniors to pay 3 tote divs there ks something drastically amiss!

Galah, to be fair, Canterbury was by far the best team but for an error by the coach in resting players, they wouldve made the final and bolted in!!

The real super rugby competition was won by the Crusaders. This second rate contest with the feeble Aussie teams was just the leftovers prize. 

[Jones]

You two are funny, lil cuties. 

Funnily enough, did you know Luds that Brods started the Spitfire thread, that you strongly disliked. You know the thread that went on and on and on. Not sure why Im bringing this up now, as see you 2 are besties, maybe me just being a lil fart.

Anyway, hopefully Im still able to post when the Jnr North verse South drivers challenge is on, to sock it to Y'All hahaha

Go the North. 

 

[Gammalite]

37 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Auckland is getting far more than they deserve.

The betting turnover on most of their meetings is poor and the racing pretty much the same!

When most of your fields are small and you havent got enough Juniors to pay 3 tote divs there ks something drastically amiss!

If there's a problem Brodster , you need to throw more money at it , to improve things . not less. (as in any business) to attract investors and participants. 

and it's nothing about 'deserving' , if you want the industry to survive.

They have many feature races there , that the southerners have raided since I was kid in Auckland. Locarno took the Messenger my first night and Sapling the Auckland Cup a month later. Don't you enjoy that sort of thing ? 

Recently (even the last Alex park meeting) had southerners plundering spoils) was great racing , no matter what you think about it.  didn't you see Cheezel and co? excellent stuff.

example is Brisbane racing for much much  less then Syd , Melbourne and Perth but Kevin Seymour and Chris Garrard (millionaire breeders) have thrown 100,000's at it over decades to keep it going for their horses. (and the other trainers here in Bris. ) Garrards sponser NZ as well , to SUPPORT the industry all-over.

maybe someone like RonRobertson and Max Harvey (raced Comedy Lad) who used to throw some money around at Auckland need to be found. and throw more money at it to build it up again even bigger.

Shame about the Junior's !!!!!! I finally worked out what went wrong in the North today . The new generation didn't come through as I discussed earlier. you're right ! that has caused desparate times now. (shortage)

TIM BUTT's kid just started driving (Rylie)  but unfortunately for you , is in Victoria instead of Canterbury

[Brodie]

12 hours ago, Gammalite said:

If there's a problem Brodster , you need to throw more money at it , to improve things . not less. (as in any business) to attract investors and participants. 

and it's nothing about 'deserving' , if you want the industry to survive.

They have many feature races there , that the southerners have raided since I was kid in Auckland. Locarno took the Messenger my first night and Sapling the Auckland Cup a month later. Don't you enjoy that sort of thing ? 

Recently (even the last Alex park meeting) had southerners plundering spoils) was great racing , no matter what you think about it.  didn't you see Cheezel and co? excellent stuff.

example is Brisbane racing for much much  less then Syd , Melbourne and Perth but Kevin Seymour and Chris Garrard (millionaire breeders) have thrown 100,000's at it over decades to keep it going for their horses. (and the other trainers here in Bris. ) Garrards sponser NZ as well , to SUPPORT the industry all-over.

maybe someone like RonRobertson and Max Harvey (raced Comedy Lad) who used to throw some money around at Auckland need to be found. and throw more money at it to build it up again even bigger.

Shame about the Junior's !!!!!! I finally worked out what went wrong in the North today . The new generation didn't come through as I discussed earlier. you're right ! that has caused desparate times now. (shortage)

TIM BUTT's kid just started driving (Rylie)  but unfortunately for you , is in Victoria instead of Canterbury

I do not think throwing money at something just because it needs it always resolves things!

Auckland needs to improve themselves before they deserve the amount they are getting.

With there capital base they should be doing far better than they are Gamma!

[the galah]

12 hours ago, Gammalite said:

If there's a problem Brodster , you need to throw more money at it , to improve things . not less. (as in any business) to attract investors and participants. 

and it's nothing about 'deserving' , if you want the industry to survive.

They have many feature races there , that the southerners have raided since I was kid in Auckland. Locarno took the Messenger my first night and Sapling the Auckland Cup a month later. Don't you enjoy that sort of thing ? 

Recently (even the last Alex park meeting) had southerners plundering spoils) was great racing , no matter what you think about it.  didn't you see Cheezel and co? excellent stuff.

example is Brisbane racing for much much  less then Syd , Melbourne and Perth but Kevin Seymour and Chris Garrard (millionaire breeders) have thrown 100,000's at it over decades to keep it going for their horses. (and the other trainers here in Bris. ) Garrards sponser NZ as well , to SUPPORT the industry all-over.

maybe someone like RonRobertson and Max Harvey (raced Comedy Lad) who used to throw some money around at Auckland need to be found. and throw more money at it to build it up again even bigger.

Shame about the Junior's !!!!!! I finally worked out what went wrong in the North today . The new generation didn't come through as I discussed earlier. you're right ! that has caused desparate times now. (shortage)

TIM BUTT's kid just started driving (Rylie)  but unfortunately for you , is in Victoria instead of Canterbury

Whats happening with albion park?Did the harness industry gain anything from how its played out?

[Gammalite]

14 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Auckland needs to improve themselves before they deserve the amount they are getting.

With there capital base they should be doing far better than they are Gamma!

Fair enough then, if you think that. If I was HRNZ ,I'd be desparate to keep Auckland going. Especially since of the feature racing they host. For the good of the sport.

As Galah said if NorthIsland eventually closes down and SouthIsland still going with harness racing, how long before they start closing tracks down there. Forbury already I think you guys were saying????

I used to love racing at Ruakaka or Taranaki (New Plymouth) and is hard to believe someone didn't have funding to keep them going.

I realise a lot of people are unhappy with Auckland trotting Club performance for some reason. EXAMPLE : I'm unhappy with the Wallabies too ,and rarely watch these days. BUT wouldn't for a second wish them out of existance , because of poor performance and/or management. Still hope they win , and still fully EXPECT Rugby Australia to throw money at them , to achieve better days.

HRNZ should have funding /management to 'Prop' these clubs up !!  not let them all die? , like is happening.

AND for the Junior drivers are MENTORING and SCHOOL program , like they have apprentice school here in QLD , young people coming through every year. It's Time to look after /educate /mentor the young drivers too !!

[Davis]

13 hours ago, Brodie said:

Galah, firstly the stake money is not evenly distributed and Auckland is getting far more than they deserve.

The betting turnover on most of their meetings is poor and the racing pretty much the same!

When most of your fields are small and you havent got enough Juniors to pay 3 tote divs there ks something drastically amiss!

Galah, to be fair, Canterbury was by far the best team but for an error by the coach in resting players, they wouldve made the final and bolted in!!

Agree mate, but it was not an "error" by the coach to rest players. Unfortunately, he had no choice because of All Black protocols where players must have a certain amount of rest. Razor should have given the NZRFU the middle finger, after all, that is what they did to him.

[Davis]

12 hours ago, Gammalite said:

 

TIM BUTT's kid just started driving (Rylie)  but unfortunately for you , is in Victoria instead of Canterbury

Unfortunately? How is Canterbury missing out by not having Riley Butt? We have many excellent junior drivers here, including the Tomlinson sisters, Ben Hope, John Morrison, Mark Hurrell, K. Newman and Sarah O'Reilly. We don't need Riley Butt.

[Gammalite]

7 minutes ago, Davis said:

Unfortunately? How is Canterbury missing out by not having Riley Butt? We have many excellent junior drivers here, including the Tomlinson sisters, Ben Hope, John Morrison, Mark Hurrell, K. Newman and Sarah O'Reilly. We don't need Riley Butt.

Well sorry about that. No offence intended. I thought this thread was about achieving more Junior drivers and competition between the Islands. The more the merrier ????  especially home grown products from the greatest harness families. 

With the young Herlihy, and wolfendens boys, now dexter and Trainor all doing so well overseas , thought you would love the next gen of the famous families , to actually be RACING IN NZ.  

I'm very disappointed Andy and Todd McCarthy went off to the states, as were near the very best in Aus. leaves a BIG hole locally.

[Ludwig]

I really don't care about increasing junior driver competition between the islands. Such childish stuff. If the north has got issues, sort it out themselves and stop trying to make it "our" problem.

[Gammalite]

1 hour ago, the galah said:

Whats happening with albion park?Did the harness industry gain anything from how its played out?

Brisbane Albion Park has been blessed with great BENEFACTORS over the years. Kevin Seymour (past chairman , multi millionaire property developer, and massive horse owner) has fought tooth and nail with RQ (racing Queensland) to keep the track running for years. Current deputy chairman Mitchel, races heaps horses with Dixon too. (keeps it going)

The greyhounds move out 2022 to 40mill complex being built at Yamanto 40km from CBD . fantastic for them !!!!

Ultimately the track will be resumed for the Olympic village and broadcast centre , when Brisbane wins the Olympic bid for the 2032 Olympic games.

The beautiful gold coast harness track ,opened 1990, was resumed 2010 for the 2018 Brisbane Commonwealth games , and the Gold Coast club folded (very very sad), and the athletes village built on the site. (sure to be used again for Olympics too) 

[Gammalite]

11 minutes ago, Ludwig said:

really don't care about increasing junior driver competition between the islands. Such childish stuff.

Childish stuff ??? a competition for drivers to compete doing something they love and live for ?? happening next month whether you like it or not. obviously 'Not' in your case . A great chance to advance their careers , experience's, making contacts, and begin establishing an identity in harness racing. everyone should be wishing them well. obviously 'Not' in your case. 

[Jones]

36 minutes ago, Gammalite said:

Childish stuff ??? a competition for drivers to compete doing something they love and live for ?? happening next month whether you like it or not. obviously 'Not' in your case . 

I swear I don't understand where Luds head is at sometimes. 

The actual competition that they have & a trophy or whatever it is they win, & the fun thing they try to qualify, then first and foremost its an individual comp, 2nd there are the 2 teams. As they travel with their team, etc. 

Guess like netball, rugby, teams play in competitions travelling to tournaments, rep teams, then regional teams, & if you are good enough you go onto International & represent your country against other countries. All just childish stuff according to Luds. Oh my. But wait for the contradiction, Sure its on its way soon lol.

Fair call tho do see Brods point re Alex propping up etc, & they do I think have low turnover. Hmm so yip absolutely get that point of view. The North grass meetings, what was their turnover ... ? Not bad Im guessing, yet hello a lot of those fell. With the odd 1 getting a recall. 

Do think tho if racing just in South, then its likely just a matter of time before it falls too. Could be 30-40 years. Without numbers in North, overall numbers would be what 1/3 Less ish (guesstimate on North current numbers to take away).

Edited June 24, 2021 by Jones

[Brodie]

2 hours ago, Gammalite said:

Fair enough then, if you think that. If I was HRNZ ,I'd be desparate to keep Auckland going. Especially since of the feature racing they host. For the good of the sport.

As Galah said if NorthIsland eventually closes down and SouthIsland still going with harness racing, how long before they start closing tracks down there. Forbury already I think you guys were saying????

I used to love racing at Ruakaka or Taranaki (New Plymouth) and is hard to believe someone didn't have funding to keep them going.

I realise a lot of people are unhappy with Auckland trotting Club performance for some reason. EXAMPLE : I'm unhappy with the Wallabies too ,and rarely watch these days. BUT wouldn't for a second wish them out of existance , because of poor performance and/or management. Still hope they win , and still fully EXPECT Rugby Australia to throw money at them , to achieve better days.

HRNZ should have funding /management to 'Prop' these clubs up !!  not let them all die? , like is happening.

AND for the Junior drivers are MENTORING and SCHOOL program , like they have apprentice school here in QLD , young people coming through every year. It's Time to look after /educate /mentor the young drivers too !!

Gamma, they are closing many tracks already.

Yes Forbury is finished!

Yes we have to have Juniors coming thru and being mentored but there also has to be something for them at the end of it!

Currently the future is not looking that bright!

There are several reasons for this and the NZ TAB does not help.

Addington will survive due to their investments however stake money will need to improve as well as currently it just does not pay to be an owner!

[Brodie]

2 hours ago, Gammalite said:

Well sorry about that. No offence intended. I thought this thread was about achieving more Junior drivers and competition between the Islands. The more the merrier ????  especially home grown products from the greatest harness families. 

With the young Herlihy, and wolfendens boys, now dexter and Trainor all doing so well overseas , thought you would love the next gen of the famous families , to actually be RACING IN NZ.  

I'm very disappointed Andy and Todd McCarthy went off to the states, as were near the very best in Aus. leaves a BIG hole locally.

Riley Butt is probably not in Oz by choice.

Tim and Anthony jumped ship due to financial reasons I would say as more opportunity 

[paleface adios]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

Riley Butt is probably not in Oz by choice.

Tim and Anthony jumped ship due to financial reasons I would say as more opportunity 

better stake money over here .look at what Anthony is doing with stride corp horses winning good money

[Davis]

2 hours ago, Brodie said:

Riley Butt is probably not in Oz by choice.

Tim and Anthony jumped ship due to financial reasons I would say as more opportunity 

Yes, finance and a dummy spit. The winners had stopped flowing from the Premier Stable, the stables favourite "tonic" was banned. Hey, let's try NSW. 

[Harrison]

On 6/23/2021 at 10:04 AM, Jones said:

Back to topic, so number 4 for S Doody, still has no driver, think Drake is available, because he is down to drive race 9. Rapley maybe available & looks like Hanara is not currently race driving. Really hope this horse is not scratched due to lack of drivers!

What North clubs & HRNZ should do something along the lines with North being limited on Jnr numbers & horse noms. An idea

Every North Jnr race will have say 8 runners put in or 9. Set a number based on overall field noms.

Therefore if they get 7 noms for Jnr, by random selection of computer 1 or 2 others will be put in. (This selection comes only from a horse that hasn't entered in Jnr race in that season, or a horse that hasn't started with a Jnr on in those other races that include a free penalty free win with a Jnr - you can’t get randomly pulled out twice in a season).

Also have a random draw for Jnrs on horses. This is to ensure fairness & a spread between those that are putting horses into support Jnrs but have no stable Jnr. So top Jnrs aren't going on same horses that always win. Make it more competitive & give all that enter a chance to draw the top Jnr.

Also so that those Jnrs that get less drives per season & less favourable drives as they are not working in top stables, gives them a chance to get the top horse in Jnr race oppose each time a weaker one.

The bigger stables may not like this idea that their Jnr won’t be automatically put on their stable horse, BUT do you want Jnr drive races to continue on this way? Change is needed. Think of the BIG picture.

There needs to be a small fund account also, which $ can be pulled to make up driver numbers in North from South.

EG say number 4 doesn’t have a driver for argument sake, then funds $ gets used to pay for a return flight up for 1 driver to the North. Surely someone somewhere has lots of airpoints too that could be gifted.

Also the clubs need to before requesting noms or at the same time, send out an email to North Jnrs - who are available?

If get RSVP 7, you know you need to get someone up from South,

This not enough noms for North Jnr races & also then not enough Jnr drivers so a horse has to scratch, is a prob that can easily be solved with some thinking.

As Brods said Jnrs are the future.

They tried this out at the start of the season and it didn’t work out... they held 3 races for a series that were random draw and the last race didn’t get off the ground as trainers weren’t happy about having someone they didn’t want...Can understand the idea behind it but the reality is most have their own drivers & it’s actually really unfair when you’ve worked your way up through a stable for years and they have some nice horses that you might get a turn on and then some other random junior gets to drive them & get the win. If you want success in the industry you need to work hard and earn your opportunities. Also the vast majority of trainers aren’t happy to take a gamble they might get someone whose hardly driven etc.. especially for instance there are some horses who are unruly, pull hard etc.. that a young junior might get in to trouble on, but someone more experienced can manage fine. 

Also same reason you couldn’t possibly draw two random horses never nominated for a junior race.. as great as this idea sounds there’s a good chance that if it’s never been in a junior race is because it’s too dangerous for a junior to be driving. 
 

The bigger problem is probably educating the young juniors and providing a better support system so they’re encouraged to do better and don’t lose confidence when they make mistakes. There’s no straight forward fix for getting more juniors in to the industry unfortunately, but there does need to be more opportunities if we’re to keep the juniors currently in the north.

[Jones]

5 minutes ago, Harrison said:

They tried this out at the start of the season and it didn’t work out... they held 3 races for a series that were random draw and the last race didn’t get off the ground as trainers weren’t happy about having someone they didn’t want...Can understand the idea behind it but the reality is most have their own drivers & it’s actually really unfair when you’ve worked your way up through a stable for years and they have some nice horses that you might get a turn on and then some other random junior gets to drive them & get the win. If you want success in the industry you need to work hard and earn your opportunities. Also the vast majority of trainers aren’t happy to take a gamble they might get someone whose hardly driven etc.. especially for instance there are some horses who are unruly, pull hard etc.. that a young junior might get in to trouble on, but someone more experienced can manage fine. 

Also same reason you couldn’t possibly draw two random horses never nominated for a junior race.. as great as this idea sounds there’s a good chance that if it’s never been in a junior race is because it’s too dangerous for a junior to be driving. 
 

The bigger problem is probably educating the young juniors and providing a better support system so they’re encouraged to do better and don’t lose confidence when they make mistakes. There’s no straight forward fix for getting more juniors in to the industry unfortunately, but there does need to be more opportunities if we’re to keep the juniors currently in the north.

Hey there Harrison,

Thanks for your input. And info. Was just about to reply to your post on the other thread, but Ill reply here since its about Jnr drivers. Yes things are much easier said than done right. Remember posting ideas re ownership ideas & Unhinged explained something similar e.g. things they tried and didn't work.

Its a catch22 really isn't it. I can't see a fix then, just a slow decline til no more Jnr races. It saddened me to see Jnr races in North not go ahead because of not enough noms etc. Hence have spoken out about it. With the reasons you outline makes sense e.g. the unruly horses, (didn't think about that!) lol. Hmm, guess folks will have to brain-storm a kind of support system for Jnrs specially North. 

Good luck and will be rooting for y'all and team North come the Champs next month! 

 

[Gammalite]

On 6/24/2021 at 4:22 PM, Jones said:

just a slow decline til no more Jnr races. It saddened me to see Jnr races in North not go ahead because of not enough noms etc.

Hey your new driver did a good job in that Jnr race Jonesy !!  Rough and Ready alright. Bit of a fierce going thing throwing it's head around, but your girl timed run beautifully from last in running, to score well !! very good.

Book her now for Sweet Lou filly drives is that what you're thinking? (If 'Zac' hunk Butcher Effron not available) 

[Jones]

21 hours ago, Gammalite said:

Hey your new driver did a good job in that Jnr race Jonesy !!  Rough and Ready alright. Bit of a fierce going thing throwing it's head around, but your girl timed run beautifully from last in running, to score well !! very good.

Book her now for Sweet Lou filly drives is that what you're thinking? (If 'Zac' hunk Butcher Effron not available) 

All things considered thought they ALL drove well.

WELL done North Jnrs 😄