As Riccarton waits to trial to their AWT the days count down for Rangiora.

[muzenza365]

What i will say on this matter is,I never had a fall at Reefton,but did have several at Rangoria in the 25 years i rode.

I rode in a race when Paul Goslin was killed at Greymouth, but this had nothing to do with the track, a horse ahead of him broke down and came back on to him, both the horse and rider did several somersaults ending in a tragic accident.

Holitika was a hard track to ride, as it was the only track that went the reverse way and had some tricky start points, I remember one day when the late Ray Hewison ended up on a car bonnet going out of the straight, when the horse he was riding failed to take the turn out of the straight. The old couple who's car it was ,never even moved, must have been real Coasters

[Huey]

3 hours ago, CustardSquare said:

So long as the money from the sale of clubs/land is going "back into the industry" then clubs can sell... Asked the same regarding Ellerslie Hill, thought it would have to go to NZTR as you say "all tracks are "owned" by the industry"...

So long as we are all "positive" and really really concentrate hard when we make wishes for the industry ,  I'm sure everything will be A.... Ok!

Well back to my Tony Robbins Audio collection!

[nomates]

18 minutes ago, Huey said:

Well back to my Tony Robbins Audio collection!

Can you please remember to return it to the positive one when you feel you have attained enlightenment .

[Huey]

5 minutes ago, nomates said:

Can you please remember to return it to the positive one when you feel you have attained enlightenment .

I will but I'm picking I can give the last 7 chapters a miss , as by the time I get to them my enlightenment will come from NZracing return to glory!

[Reefton]

8 hours ago, muzenza365 said:

What i will say on this matter is,I never had a fall at Reefton,but did have several at Rangoria in the 25 years i rode.

I rode in a race when Paul Goslin was killed at Greymouth, but this had nothing to do with the track, a horse ahead of him broke down and came back on to him, both the horse and rider did several somersaults ending in a tragic accident.

Holitika was a hard track to ride, as it was the only track that went the reverse way and had some tricky start points, I remember one day when the late Ray Hewison ended up on a car bonnet going out of the straight, when the horse he was riding failed to take the turn out of the straight. The old couple who's car it was ,never even moved, must have been real Coasters

Yes I think one of Ray Harris' flipped over the outside fence onto a bonnet on the way back to scale at Hoki one day and died of a heart attack.

Ah those were the days!

Thanks for the support Morty.  We know Reefton is a long long way from perfect but it is a long long way from the worst. As someone who has been there and done it I respect your opinion.

[Reefton]

For those defending Rangiora let me tell you a little 21st century fairy story(well it is a story but tragically it is not a fairy story.....)

Many years ago a group of blokes decided they would develop a coal mine at a place called Pike River....

Straight away many experienced people said 'that mine is in a seam that will be very gassy'(ie dangerous).  But the blokes developing it poo poo'd that idea and put out a press release saying there were no gas concerns.

And so the mine developed and the stories of close calls and danger were all around the town.  And some(mainly experienced mining people) said 'this is a ticking time bomb' - and many refused to go anywhere near it.  Then there were some who said 'we know it is dangerous but we are going to work there regardless' even though there were other mining options in the district.  Then there were some who had no real idea and worked there in total ignorance of the danger.   And some of them we believe took things like cigarettes, lighters, cellphones and aluminium cans down the mine.  And others even put plastic bags over the gas monitors to stop them from going off and forcing everyone out of the mine.

And the people who were supposed to monitor it got bullshitted up by the management because they had no idea of what was safe and what was not and were very susceptible to management palaver and hospitality.

And as time wore on some of those oldtimers who vowed they would not go near it relented and joined the Pike workforce.....

And the stories of near misses and gas incidents continued to circulate around the town.........

then one Friday afternoon about 3.45pm ........   bang!

Well not really 'bang' - more like BANG!!!!!!!!

Anyone care for a walk down the 'Rangiora 'tunnel?

Incidentally guys who know a lot more than me say it would be like being in the barrell of a gun being in the tunnel(the drift) when it explodes

 

 

[Shad]

Remember one that went over the fence at reefton few years back  no fault of the track, just rider error I thought, did result in the moving of the winning post, which incidentally had been in that place for many a year, think the horse was recovered on the way to blacks point, gold dust its name from memory. 

[billy connolly]

3 hours ago, Shad said:

Billy C was that horse you won the Reefton Cup with a horse by Spectacular love

Yes, and coincidentally won his first race (at his first start) at Rangiora.
 

12 hours ago, muzenza365 said:

What i will say on this matter is,I never had a fall at Reefton,but did have several at Rangoria

Not a fair comparison. Reefton race once per year, Rangiora would've raced at least a half dozen times per year.

 

4 hours ago, Reefton said:

then one Friday afternoon about 3.45pm ........   bang!

Well not really 'bang' - more like BANG!!!!!!!!

Are you referring to one of your old West Coast girlfriends ??? 
 

[Chief Stipe]

4 hours ago, billy connolly said:

Not a fair comparison. Reefton race once per year, Rangiora would've raced at least a half dozen times per year.

Plus a multitude of trials.

There's no evidence to say that Rangiora is any more dangerous than any other track.

Certainly kinder on horses than Riccarton.

[Reefton]

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Plus a multitude of trials.

There's no evidence to say that Rangiora is any more dangerous than any other track.

Certainly kinder on horses than Riccarton.

Believe it or not that's what Whittall used to say

Remarkable coincidence

[Chief Stipe]

6 minutes ago, Reefton said:

Believe it or not that's what Whittall used to say

Remarkable coincidence

You know as well as I do that Pike River should have always been an opencast mine.  Who gave approval for it to be something else?

I guess you still blame Air New Zealand for the Erebus Disaster?

But back on topic......obviously there is nothing wrong with the Rangiora track given the number of horse trials that have galloped on there since 2006.

[Reefton]

7 hours ago, billy connolly said:

 

Not a fair comparison. Reefton race once per year, Rangiora would've raced at least a half dozen times per year.

 

Are you referring to one of your old West Coast girlfriends ??? 
 

Rangiora raced twice a year

 

Belittle the Pike River disaster eh?  Obviously it is not you who lost a son brother or father in it.  Just like it is not you who has to look after Jude after Rangiora.

[Reefton]

4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

You know as well as I do that Pike River should have always been an opencast mine.  Who gave approval for it to be something else?

I guess you still blame Air New Zealand for the Erebus Disaster?

But back on topic......obviously there is nothing wrong with the Rangiora track given the number of horse trials that have galloped on there since 2006.

You know nothing about whether Pike should have been open cast and anyone who blames anyone other than Air NZ for Erebus is either ignorant or has never read the books.

A lot of people went to work at Pike for a long time before it exploded.  Just because a lot came and went did not mean it was safe. 

[Chief Stipe]

Just now, Reefton said:

You know nothing about whether Pike should have been open cast and anyone who blames anyone other than Air NZ for Erebus is either ignorant or has never read the books.

Air NZ was a number of factors.  Didn't Justice Mahon say "10 factors" any one of which could have prevented the disaster?

At the end of the day I back the cogent analysis done by a BA Captain and Chippendale - the primary cause of the accident was pilot error namely not maintaining minimum altitude over high terrain and bad weather and not confirming the position of the plane after a long flight over water.

Back to Rangiora - in terms of injury to rider and horse the track is no different to any others in NZ.

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Air NZ was a number of factors.  Didn't Justice Mahon say "10 factors" any one of which could have prevented the disaster?

At the end of the day I back the cogent analysis done by a BA Captain and Chippendale - the primary cause of the accident was pilot error namely not maintaining minimum altitude over high terrain and bad weather and not confirming the position of the plane after a long flight over water.

Back to Rangiora - in terms of injury to rider and horse the track is no different to any others in NZ.

Erebus happened because the night before the flight the Air NZ navigation manager changed the computer flight plan to sent the plane heading straight towards Mt Erebus without telling the pilot that the course had been changed. The pilot had been briefed that he was flying straight down the  Ross Ice shelf(flat ice) and combined with the white out effect(that he was not trained for)and the fact that landmarks the Pilot could see matched what he expected to see 30 miles to the west led to the crash.  He had been told in the briefing he was safe to be flying very low because he(and the briefing pilot) thought he was flying over flat ground not straight towards 16,000ft mountain.

That plane was always going to crash into Erebus from the second its wheels left the ground in Auckland.  Read Gordon Vette's book Impact Erebus and the Paul Holmes one quoting the cop who found Jim Collins flight logs and maps on the mountain then discovered between him handing them to Chippendale and co and the Royal Commission that all the papers disappeared.

Chippendale(and the Air NZ CEO Davis) made a prick of themselves over that all to try and avoid American legal action over Air NZ's incompetence.  They couldn't sue a dead man the poor unfortunate pilot Jim Collins.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Reefton said:

Erebus happened because the night before the flight the Air NZ navigation manager changed the computer flight plan to sent the plane heading straight towards Mt Erebus without telling the pilot that the course had been changed. The pilot had been briefed that he was flying straight down the  Ross Ice shelf(flat ice) and combined with the white out effect(that he was not trained for)and the fact that landmarks the Pilot could see matched what he expected to see 30 miles to the west led to the crash.  He had been told in the briefing he was safe to be flying very low because he(and the briefing pilot) thought he was flying over flat ground not straight towards 16,000ft mountain.

That plane was always going to crash into Erebus from the second its wheels left the ground in Auckland.  Read Gordon Vette's book Impact Erebus and the Paul Holmes one quoting the cop who found Jim Collins flight logs and maps on the mountain then discovered between him handing them to Chippendale and co and the Royal Commission that all the papers disappeared.

Chippendale(and the Air NZ CEO Davis) made a prick of themselves over that all to try and avoid American legal action over Air NZ's incompetence.  They couldn't sue a dead man the poor unfortunate pilot Jim Collins.

Numerous factual errors in this post.  Oh where do I start.

3,500km from the last land based navigation point as in Dunedin to McMurdo Sound.  The technology available in 1979 for navigation was not what we know now.  To travel 3,500 km across ocean with no land reference and expect to be where you thought you would let alone within 10 miles of that point is insane.  Especially when you knew that there was terrain in the area.  Let alone bad weather.

The first responsibility of the flight Captain was to determine exactly where they were.  They were told by the USA flight control that they WEREN'T where they should be.  That should have raised doubt.

Rule number one don't descend if you don't know where you are.  Rule two don't descend into bad weather.  Whatever you do don't do both!

As the Instructor said to me when he gave me my pilots licence - "Congratulations Doug - remember this two things will kill you when flying.  Beatups and bad weather.  Avoid both but never do both together"!

I asked what was a beatup?  Being a naive protected follow the rules kid I didn't understand.  He said a "beatup is when you buzz the girlfriends house flying too low".

 

[Joe Bloggs]

40 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Numerous factual errors in this post.  Oh where do I start.

3,500km from the last land based navigation point as in Dunedin to McMurdo Sound.  The technology available in 1979 for navigation was not what we know now.  To travel 3,500 km across ocean with no land reference and expect to be where you thought you would let alone within 10 miles of that point is insane.  Especially when you knew that there was terrain in the area.  Let alone bad weather.

The first responsibility of the flight Captain was to determine exactly where they were.  They were told by the USA flight control that they WEREN'T where they should be.  That should have raised doubt.

Rule number one don't descend if you don't know where you are.  Rule two don't descend into bad weather.  Whatever you do don't do both!

As the Instructor said to me when he gave me my pilots licence - "Congratulations Doug - remember this two things will kill you when flying.  Beatups and bad weather.  Avoid both but never do both together"!

I asked what was a beatup?  Being a naive protected follow the rules kid I didn't understand.  He said a "beatup is when you buzz the girlfriends house flying too low".

 

When Qantas promoted me to 747 Captain they said to remember two things, ''Never drink and Fly'' and Be good to your Mother........

Mahon inquiry

Mahon said the single, dominant, and effective cause of the crash was Air New Zealand's alteration of the flight plan waypoint coordinates in the ground navigation computer without advising the crew. The new flight plan took the aircraft directly over the mountain, rather than along its flank.

Destination: Nonstop sightseeing flight to and f...

 

Mount Erebus disaster - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Mount_Erebus_disaster

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Chief Stipe]

9 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

When Qantas promoted me to 747 Captain they said to remember two things, ''Never drink and Fly'' and Be good to your Mother........

Mahon inquiry

Mahon said the single, dominant, and effective cause of the crash was Air New Zealand's alteration of the flight plan waypoint coordinates in the ground navigation computer without advising the crew. The new flight plan took the aircraft directly over the mountain, rather than along its flank.

Destination: Nonstop sightseeing flight to and f...

 

Mount Erebus disaster - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Mount_Erebus_disaster

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your point?

[Joe Bloggs]

My Uncle was a pilot with TEAL, he was retired when Erebus happened, he did say though, ''he knew the pilot/Captain of that doomed flight and he was dead from the moment he/they left home that day''.......a tad different to flying a Piper or Cessna one would think.

[Reefton]

59 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

When Qantas promoted me to 747 Captain they said to remember two things, ''Never drink and Fly'' and Be good to your Mother........

Mahon inquiry

Mahon said the single, dominant, and effective cause of the crash was Air New Zealand's alteration of the flight plan waypoint coordinates in the ground navigation computer without advising the crew. The new flight plan took the aircraft directly over the mountain, rather than along its flank.

Destination: Nonstop sightseeing flight to and f...

 

Mount Erebus disaster - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Mount_Erebus_disaster

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

My Uncle was a pilot with TEAL, he was retired when Erebus happened, he did say though, ''he knew the pilot/Captain of that doomed flight and he was dead from the moment he/they left home that day''.......a tad different to flying a Piper or Cessna one would think.

Funny those two statements are EXACTLY what I said in my earlier post

Someone should have given you the advice CS that when you are in a hole stop digging

 

[Chief Stipe]

18 minutes ago, Reefton said:

 

Funny those two statements are EXACTLY what I said in my earlier post

Someone should have given you the advice CS that when you are in a hole stop digging

 

No no no.  You are digging not me.  My powder is dry.  Which is quite easy given the FACTS are aligned with my assessment.

[Gammalite]

3 hours ago, Reefton said:

and combined with the white out effect

Could never understand it , even when young and on my birthday when the Erebus disaster happened i was wondering, What could you possibly see out the window of a huge plane like that ?, to make that trip worthwhile. A white-out? low cloud, barren landscape.

Would of been better just flying up and down the beautiful Canterbury plains (at a safe height) where there is infinitely more to see or any of the beautiful NZ or Aus coastlines. 

Don't think the folk on the Erebus flight had a clear day either . when mountain not spotted unfortunately.. 

[Shad]

On 28/07/2021 at 3:22 AM, billy connolly said:

Didn't say Rangiora was safe, no track is 100% safe. What I said was Rangiora by its nature causes the field to race tighter than they would on an uncambered 1000m track like Reefton and as stated earlier, if a horse falls at Rangiora it invariably takes others with it which was the case with Lawson, McGartland and Jamieson.

I should quantify that I have nothing against Reefton per se... have won the Reefton Cup (and 3 ounces of gold) in the past and have always enjoyed the atmosphere and hospitality afforded by Reefton as no doubt many others have.
 

Another interesting story on that reefton cup, an old fellow  that lives over that way was telling me the story that on the day he was the one who collected the gold for the connections, his memory not that great these days, but when it comes to the horses he's still fairly sharp, he also recalled another story that the same connections took a horse by young runaway to Oamaru many years ago,it snuck under everyones the radar and paid a 90 div, he reckoned it was back in the days when races were on radio Pacific and they only would broadcast 1 meeting a day,usually a north island on,unfortunately he was disappointed to not get a piece of that big div.

[Freda]

Probably not much to gain in rehashing old wrongs. 

I don't think anyone charged with making decisions does so with the express aim of injuring or killing people. Yet that is the end result of stupid or ill-thought policies.

We see it all around us, every day, it's just lucky, I guess, that is most cases the consequences aren't tragic as those discussed above.

Planes, racetracks,  mines,  aren't in themselves malicious entities.  But the decisions made in and around them can have catastrophic results. 

If stupidity was a hanging offense, there wouldn't be many of us who would escape, because I doubt if anyone can say, hand on heart, that they haven't done something very stupid indeed.

It's the lack of accountability that gets up my nose,  because without that there is little ability to change processes and ensure the bad choices aren't made again.

Butt- covering is an art form. 

[billy connolly]

On 29/07/2021 at 9:20 PM, Shad said:

Another interesting story on that Reefton cup, an old fellow  that lives over that way was telling me the story that on the day he was the one who collected the gold for the connections, he also recalled another story that the same connections took a horse by Young Runaway to Oamaru many years ago, it snuck under everyones the radar and paid a 90 div, he reckoned it was back in the days when races were on radio Pacific and they only would broadcast 1 meeting a day, usually a North Island one.

That Young Runaway horse paid $95 and $22 a place and trifecta was $32,760 !!!

Races were televised but the commentator was late arriving on course and a North Island commentator covered the first race from afar.

The Young Runaway also won a maiden and an ounce of gold at Reefton, the gold is now worth as much, if not more than the winning stakes.

Won't see those days again.