NZTR Directions

[Huey]

Makes for some interesting reading and more of the same or in their case copied from someone else, but I'd have thought one thing they would want to be particularly careful about now and in the future would be making rash decisions around venues, given the environment we are living in and likely to be in for a considerable amount of time.

Anyone see somethign they particularly like? or new?

 

https://loveracing.nz/OnHorseFiles/Downloads/NZTR-Directions-Paper_FINAL-VERSION.pdf

[Gospel of Judas]

Re South Island courses

Not very bright geting ride of Waterlea for a start. Considering many hundreds of Millions are controlled by retires, who retire there from places in Otago, Southland, Canterbury and Auckland. Why a certain major five accounting firm just brought into local firm get into local market? wonder why that is? Say quite a few of them be horse racing owners. Shit of them and a few more and a few more people might decide a horse in Aussie is a better option. Of course, if Harness club decides stuff it and that's it. Then course NZTR and HRNZ going have some massive animal wealth fare issues. If the ferry does not go and no one got some places to put them. Considering wine more profitable, who wants have places for horses? why say easier to give Marlborough Racing club, backs its dates and race again.  Not having course in Top of the South Island gives no it no marketing or incentive to grow anything may go back further.

Got say re Westcoast why does it need three or four courses? perhaps just need one and take up Reefton good idea from a few years ago.

Re Southland say one of those courses could close. Just not sure on that one not my area got any tries too. 

Re Otago Waikoauiti  should closed years ago it is a dump and not had cent spent on it. Suppose certain trainer helped keep it open. Omakau say be in same boat as Waitoauiti.  Waimate some people like it and love it Might be worth keeping going.

Re Canterbury Keep Ashburton going with plenty racing. Give the grass track at Riccarton a good repair job. Then Pitman and Chief can be mates😉. Don't really see point of Motukarara as gallops track. 

Thats from what know Re South Island . Let you North Islanders fight it out with crocked NZ First backers re tracks up there. 

 

[Freda]

7 hours ago, Huey said:

Makes for some interesting reading and more of the same or in their case copied from someone else, but I'd have thought one thing they would want to be particularly careful about now and in the future would be making rash decisions around venues, given the environment we are living in and likely to be in for a considerable amount of time.

Anyone see somethign they particularly like? or new?

 

https://loveracing.nz/OnHorseFiles/Downloads/NZTR-Directions-Paper_FINAL-VERSION.pdf

Overall - and I am strongly critical, generally, of this mob - there are some promising initiatives.  From the perspective of a southerner, it is pleasing to see Riverton down to be retained, it's a great track and would have been a huge loss.  The concept of series racing, such as AWT championships,   country cups,  Champions' day etc, while hardly new [ being old hat to many other jurisdictions ]  would have to be a positive.   But, for Country series racing, there has to be a sufficient number of country tracks/clubs left.!

The fact that Timaru is retained [ for now ]  is a plus, as is the plan to reconstruct the Riccarton turf track.    halleluja !      But, once [ if ] that happens, Timaru will be gone, leaving just Ashburton [ and the AWT ] to provide racing for Canterbury.   How Oamaru slides into Canterbury, I'm not sure.

Jumping gone in the south, no surprise, the National remains?  well and good for now, but it remains to be seen how things roll in a few years time.

The funding of these initiatives, not so sure.    High -stakes paid to certain series', or specific one-off days, begs the question that so many participants are chewing the paint off the walls,  and increased betting revenue to fund all this still has to be in the speculative bucket.   Looking at the comments on the jockeys down here in the south, I am hard pressed to see how there will be any increase on betting unless there is a huge improvement.  Won't happen IMO.

I's have been much happier to see the grass-roots participants recognised, and respected, for their contributions with a lift to bottom-end stakes.   There will still be fewer and fewer horses left to attack these new initiatives unless there is some incentive along the way to keep them in training.

 

[nomates]

I see that Hawera which was listed for closure is now 1 of the 5 strategic CD jumping venues , like Freda says about Timaru being kept on at the moment it was always a no brainer , as you say Huey they need to tread carefully with the current situation , but then we all agreed they were way too rash initially , we could see that some of the discarded venues were going to be needed , hence maybe if there had been wider consultation with the racing fraternity they would have got a broader picture of what would work going forward .

Too late now but the A/Ws are a bit like the square peg into the round hole scenario , they will use all the machinery possible to make them fit into NZ racing irrespective of the irrevocable fractures they will cause the wider industry .

[Joe Bloggs]

I hate to be negative as there are a lot of good common sense decisions/initiatives within this, however, beware a Greek bearing gifts. The Elephant in the room, where is the money coming from, this reminds me of Christmas, and the parents that have a house full of kids and a smouldering wreck of a credit card.

The kids have to have a lovely Chrissie, so the spend is on, repaying the CC later is put on the top shelf until the bank comes calling, it's all too familiar, the keeping of some of these great tracks is great, they listened, maybe through fear more than good business acumen but at least it's a start. Now to woo a new breed of punter and to reinvigorate those that have deserted in droves.

[nomates]

41 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

I hate to be negative as there are a lot of good common sense decisions/initiatives within this, however, beware a Greek bearing gifts. The Elephant in the room, where is the money coming from, this reminds me of Christmas, and the parents that have a house full of kids and a smouldering wreck of a credit card.

The kids have to have a lovely Chrissie, so the spend is on, repaying the CC later is put on the top shelf until the bank comes calling, it's all too familiar, the keeping of some of these great tracks is great, they listened, maybe through fear more than good business acumen but at least it's a start. Now to woo a new breed of punter and to reinvigorate those that have deserted in droves.

Unfortunately Joe NZTR has been living on the never never for far too long now , and I can tell you that i can't remember the last time it felt like xmas being part of NZ racing .

[Huey]

4 hours ago, Freda said:

Overall - and I am strongly critical, generally, of this mob - there are some promising initiatives.  From the perspective of a southerner, it is pleasing to see Riverton down to be retained, it's a great track and would have been a huge loss.  The concept of series racing, such as AWT championships,   country cups,  Champions' day etc, while hardly new [ being old hat to many other jurisdictions ]  would have to be a positive.   But, for Country series racing, there has to be a sufficient number of country tracks/clubs left.!

The fact that Timaru is retained [ for now ]  is a plus, as is the plan to reconstruct the Riccarton turf track.    halleluja !      But, once [ if ] that happens, Timaru will be gone, leaving just Ashburton [ and the AWT ] to provide racing for Canterbury.   How Oamaru slides into Canterbury, I'm not sure.

Jumping gone in the south, no surprise, the National remains?  well and good for now, but it remains to be seen how things roll in a few years time.

The funding of these initiatives, not so sure.    High -stakes paid to certain series', or specific one-off days, begs the question that so many participants are chewing the paint off the walls,  and increased betting revenue to fund all this still has to be in the speculative bucket.   Looking at the comments on the jockeys down here in the south, I am hard pressed to see how there will be any increase on betting unless there is a huge improvement.  Won't happen IMO.

I's have been much happier to see the grass-roots participants recognised, and respected, for their contributions with a lift to bottom-end stakes.   There will still be fewer and fewer horses left to attack these new initiatives unless there is some incentive along the way to keep them in training.

 

I also like a number of the initiatives, but these have been suggested for years and ignored for years .If they had implemented half of them when needed we may have been in a better space than what we are now, racing has lost so much of its lustre I can see many not caring about the significance of them. i.e. the Country Cups - what country cups they are killing off the majority of country racing or making them race somewhere else. A Champions day not sure how that will work, won't that mean they are just pulling significant races away from somewhere else to do that? Not sure and most of it is never really thought out or discussed well enough to think of the implications of any of the decisions made, i.e. Auck Cup etc. I know that was an ARC initiative but the dates have to ok it also.

[The Centaur]

On 23/10/2021 at 8:05 AM, Joe Bloggs said:

I hate to be negative as there are a lot of good common sense decisions/initiatives within this, however, beware a Greek bearing gifts. The Elephant in the room, where is the money coming from, this reminds me of Christmas, and the parents that have a house full of kids and a smouldering wreck of a credit card.

The kids have to have a lovely Chrissie, so the spend is on, repaying the CC later is put on the top shelf until the bank comes calling, it's all too familiar, the keeping of some of these great tracks is great, they listened, maybe through fear more than good business acumen but at least it's a start. Now to woo a new breed of punter and to reinvigorate those that have deserted in droves.

Unlike the UK NZ does not have a Racecourse Association. This combines the interests of the courses themselves so they can function economically as businesses. That is not the function of NZTR. When you add up the asset value its a glaring omission.

[curious]

7 hours ago, The Centaur said:

Unlike the UK NZ does not have a Racecourse Association. This combines the interests of the courses themselves so they can function economically as businesses. That is not the function of NZTR. When you add up the asset value its a glaring omission.

I thought that was exactly the function of NZTR? It is an association of clubs isn't it?

[curious]

On 23/10/2021 at 10:16 AM, Huey said:

I also like a number of the initiatives, but these have been suggested for years and ignored for years .If they had implemented half of them when needed we may have been in a better space than what we are now, racing has lost so much of its lustre I can see many not caring about the significance of them. i.e. the Country Cups - what country cups they are killing off the majority of country racing or making them race somewhere else. A Champions day not sure how that will work, won't that mean they are just pulling significant races away from somewhere else to do that? Not sure and most of it is never really thought out or discussed well enough to think of the implications of any of the decisions made, i.e. Auck Cup etc. I know that was an ARC initiative but the dates have to ok it also.

The primary object of NZTR is

"a) Promoting and advancing thoroughbred racing in all its forms in New Zealand;"

I don't see how starving and closing down the provincial and community form can be seen to align with that object. Let alone using those assets to advance another form. Surely further action by the board in that direction is likely to be subject to legal action as a breach of NZTR's constitutional object?

Edited October 24, 2021 by curious

[Freda]

3 hours ago, curious said:

The primary object of NZTR is

"a) Promoting and advancing thoroughbred racing in all its forms in New Zealand;"

I don't see how starving and closing down the provincial and community form can be seen to align with that object. Let alone using those assets to advance another form. Surely further action by the board in that direction is likely to be subject to legal action as a breach of NZTR's constitutional object?

They will say that following the plan fulfils that obligation.

[nomates]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

They will say that following the plan fulfils that obligation.

Plan , what plan , when , where , i didn't see a plan , have they got a plan ? a real plan ? a big boys plan ? one that will turn the industry around .

I must have missed it , can someone direct me to where i can view this plan , please .

[Chief Stipe]

On 22/10/2021 at 10:25 PM, Huey said:

Makes for some interesting reading and more of the same or in their case copied from someone else, but I'd have thought one thing they would want to be particularly careful about now and in the future would be making rash decisions around venues, given the environment we are living in and likely to be in for a considerable amount of time.

Anyone see somethign they particularly like? or new?

 

https://loveracing.nz/OnHorseFiles/Downloads/NZTR-Directions-Paper_FINAL-VERSION.pdf

There is some glaring issues in this document.......

Great news that they identify that Riccarton Turf needs reconstructing!  But not for at least 5 more years!!!!

[Chief Stipe]

An interesting line in the document for the West Coast - perhaps @Reefton can elucidate what it actually means....

No changes are proposed to the remaining three venues for racing on the West Coast, being the Reefton, Omoto and Kumara Racecourses.

[Chief Stipe]

I'm always wary when I see a "consultant" engaged that has little or no understanding of the industry they are consulting on.  Enter Sapere Research Group Ltd to review South Island racing.  

I thought we had already had several reviews?

What is it costing in fees for this research?  

[Reefton]

13 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

An interesting line in the document for the West Coast - perhaps @Reefton can elucidate what it actually means....

No changes are proposed to the remaining three venues for racing on the West Coast, being the Reefton, Omoto and Kumara Racecourses.

means we are all staying open from what I can read of it.  We can now think about expanding the circumference of our track.  

Only logical anyway.  Greymouth has ample stables - paid for out of the old amenities fund I might add - but is too small and flood prone(and I mean flood prone!), Kumara is big enough but has no stables and serious track issues  if it rains.  Our track is too small but is by far the best surface, we have stabling and we have room to expand.

But it is that flood prone comment that makes the difference.

They cannot in all fairness arbitrarily shut us down and save the other two - we are far from perfect but do not have the issues the other two do.  If(and that is a big IF) we can increase the track circumference we will be infinitely superior.

 

[The Centaur]

7 hours ago, curious said:

I thought that was exactly the function of NZTR? It is an association of clubs isn't it?

Once upon a time it used to be. Now its administrates the participants and to a degree the clubs are participants. But clubs get income from many other sources not just racing. Combining those functions into a central body is the key to making racetracks viable. Many new business initiatives can get started with this approach.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Reefton said:

means we are all staying open from what I can read of it.  We can now think about expanding the circumference of our track.  

Only logical anyway.  Greymouth has ample stables - paid for out of the old amenities fund I might add - but is too small and flood prone(and I mean flood prone!), Kumara is big enough but has no stables and serious track issues  if it rains.  Our track is too small but is by far the best surface, we have stabling and we have room to expand.

But it is that flood prone comment that makes the difference.

They cannot in all fairness arbitrarily shut us down and save the other two - we are far from perfect but do not have the issues the other two do.  If(and that is a big IF) we can increase the track circumference we will be infinitely superior.

 

I have noticed that there is a bit of the squeaky wheel in some of the decisions so some credit to @Reefton.

The most disturbing aspect is that much of the decisions are driven by the need to feed the AWT's not what is BEST for RACING.  My prediction is that will get worse primarily because of the switch from a low cost delivery model to a high cost one without any obvious revenue generation breakthroughs.  I just can't seen how the dominance of our racing by dirt tracks will appeal to the Ozzie and NZ punter.  

[Chief Stipe]

7 minutes ago, The Centaur said:

Once upon a time it used to be. Now its administrates the participants and to a degree the clubs are participants. But clubs get income from many other sources not just racing. Combining those functions into a central body is the key to making racetracks viable. Many new business initiatives can get started with this approach.

Like what?  It used to be farming.  The core business is wagering from racing.  If you fail at that or even fail to recognise that then you are doomed to fail.

 

[Chief Stipe]

WTF!  I've been reading this Directions paper in between doing other stuff and just got to page 18.  Aotearoa Champions Day with 10 x $200,000 races!  FFS as that famous Ozzie kid Jonsey once said - "Your dreamin - mate!"  

Anyway I thought we already had a day like that that doesn't pay its way - it's called Karaka Millions Day!

[Chief Stipe]

FFS God give me strength!!!!  Page 19 - a bloody Breeders Championship!!!!!!  A $1m race for mares to support breeders!  I thought they already had a subsidised day for them - it's called the Karaka Millions Day!

[nomates]

31 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

"Your dreamin - mate!"  

It's , " Bernie , your jokin mate " . They are Effing clueless , they are just big noting , trying to look like they have everything under control , meanwhile , ducks on a lake .

[Gospel of Judas]

Should know by now. Big boys like Vela, Ellis, Hogan and large Waikato breeders and owners, are more special than you and me. Why, they get all the stakes and races directed towards them. Most are in reality, parasites leeching of NZ Racing and Government tit. With special races, stakes and very large tax breaks. Should be standing on their own two feet, like everyone else.

[Doomed]

9 hours ago, Reefton said:

means we are all staying open from what I can read of it.  We can now think about expanding the circumference of our track.  

Only logical anyway.  Greymouth has ample stables - paid for out of the old amenities fund I might add - but is too small and flood prone(and I mean flood prone!), Kumara is big enough but has no stables and serious track issues  if it rains.  Our track is too small but is by far the best surface, we have stabling and we have room to expand.

But it is that flood prone comment that makes the difference.

They cannot in all fairness arbitrarily shut us down and save the other two - we are far from perfect but do not have the issues the other two do.  If(and that is a big IF) we can increase the track circumference we will be infinitely superior.

 

Why has there never been any attempt to expand the Reefton track? It does look as if there is room for a longer home straight and a bigger track over all.

[Doomed]

10 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I'm always wary when I see a "consultant" engaged that has little or no understanding of the industry they are consulting on.  Enter Sapere Research Group Ltd to review South Island racing.  

I thought we had already had several reviews?

What is it costing in fees for this research?  

Any totally impartial and intelligent consultant would identify Timaru as a crucial track in the SI: being centrally located, with room for expansion, a good racing surface and better winter weather than either Christchurch or Dunedin. So the consultants conclusions regarding Timaru will show how independent and skilled they are.