Reefton

[Reefton]

27 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Just thought your filly would have preferred a bit more give in the ground... 😉

What she wanted is a bit irrelevant.  We were instructed to aim for a race morning dead 4 and that is what we produced.  Hate to remind you but it was not long ago you were telling me she was not much good so doctoring a track to suit her would not be a very intelligent move I wouldn't have thought?  She ain't Makybe Diva or Winx

[Reefton]

19 hours ago, Freda said:

Was a super day - heat notwithstanding.   Caught up with so many old friends, among them former very good trainer Helen Preston, along with a happy and enthusiastic crowd.

I hear the next year's days for the three Coast clubs are Tuesday,  Thursday,  and Saturday.  Westland again misses out, although I'm told they applied for a day.

The prospect of these wonderful days getting transferred to the AWT is alarming. 

Yes Pam and I apologize in hindsight for not getting you up into the 'free drinks' area(I had a lot on my mind when I was talking to you)

I have the composition of the RJC submission re the dates stewing away between my ears as we speak but the bottom line is three meetings here over five days is impossible.  We need a reshuffle of the Calendar so we have it over a minimum of 7 days but the logical deal is four meetings in 10 days(Thursday 5th - Reefton - Sunday 8th - Greymouth  - Wednesday 11th - Greymouth(maybe the Westland Racing Club) and Saturday 14th at Kumara).  Shift Waikouaiti to Jan 3rd from the 14th.  God knows seven feature meetings in eight weeks is too short a timeframe.

Mind you that is common sense and getting common sense out of the hoi polloi on Wellington/Parnell might be pushing shiite uphill

[Shad]

6 hours ago, Reefton said:

Long way to travel to be turned away????? It is bloody NZTR policy that we cannot let unvaxxed in man!  Not our call and bear in mind that one of the Souths most prominent riders and two of their best trainers are not allowed on a racecourse because of their vaccination status. One of our own life members could not attend becuase he is not fully vaxxed.  I am not particularly pro vaxx - some of my good mates are either unvaxxed or totally anti vaxx. But we have rules in place and continue to race we must abide by them.  It is a bloody long way from the stupidest NZTR decree I have ever heard and everyone knows the NZTR rules.  Do not expect to come to the Coast and have Covid not being taken seriously.

And at least two of the ladies on the gate were my committee people doing the job for nothing and copping a bloody lot of grief from unhappy members of the public.  Another example of why we can survive with the minimal income we get - because we work our arses off to get ready for our day in the sun.  Bernard take note - we do NOT owe our existence to the NZ racing industry we owe our existence to our own bloody sweat (and God knows there was plenty of sweat there yesterday)

 

 

Thanks for the rant, it wasn't me that attended, and was turned away, and certainly wasn't directed in anyway at the club, as I know the rules,and yes a NZTR ruling, hence stayed at home, and would never put gate attendants in that position, there only doing a job, some will always flout the rules.

[Freda]

5 hours ago, Reefton said:

Yes Pam and I apologize in hindsight for not getting you up into the 'free drinks' area(I had a lot on my mind when I was talking to you)

I have the composition of the RJC submission re the dates stewing away between my ears as we speak but the bottom line is three meetings here over five days is impossible.  We need a reshuffle of the Calendar so we have it over a minimum of 7 days but the logical deal is four meetings in 10 days(Thursday 5th - Reefton - Sunday 8th - Greymouth  - Wednesday 11th - Greymouth(maybe the Westland Racing Club) and Saturday 14th at Kumara).  Shift Waikouaiti to Jan 3rd from the 14th.  God knows seven feature meetings in eight weeks is too short a timeframe.

Mind you that is common sense and getting common sense out of the hoi polloi on Wellington/Parnell might be pushing shiite uphill

No apology needed, we arrived a bit later in the day and I hadn't been aware of the 'wristband'  thingy.   Far too hot for alcohol - and I'm not a beer drinker - but was very grateful to be able to have copious amounts of lemonade.

Given that the so very popular Gisborne / Wairoa circuit has now been consigned to history, it is, I suspect, largely due to the eloquence and energy of your good self that the Coast still survives as a 'circuit'  but they are clearly doing their best to fix that.    The absence of a Westland day can only be 'payback' for the actions of the club....and what is the silliest thing of all ;  the improvements deemed necessary to bring the track up to standard [ if that was a major factor ] could have been funded by the club itself.  Industry money was not needed, or expected.   They had the funds to do whatever was required, be that improving the camber, re-aligning a bend, etc...as well as plenty of local voluntary help.

 

[curious]

5 hours ago, Reefton said:

God knows seven feature meetings in eight weeks is too short a timeframe.

Why? Surely if we are going to have tiered racing there should be opportunities for horses racing in the feature+ tier most weeks?

[Chief Stipe]

20 hours ago, curious said:

Yeahh  spotted that later! Was working on hearsay when I first reported.

Thinking about those two charges for breaking the whip rules a bit more I can only conclude that these charges are not determined in real time but by reviewing the video in the remote bunker.

Seems to be happening with Harness racing with regard to whip use and decision making during the running.

With the latter there seems to be an inconsistency between the codes with gallop rides not being reviewed when they should be.

[curious]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Thinking about those two charges for breaking the whip rules a bit more I can only conclude that these charges are not determined in real time but by reviewing the video in the remote bunker.

Seems to be happening with Harness racing with regard to whip use and decision making during the running.

With the latter there seems to be an inconsistency between the codes with gallop rides not being reviewed when they should be.

Unfortunately, there is no head on in the replay of that race to see where the infractions occurred and especially with left-handers like CWJ it's pretty hard to tell much from the side ons. To make matters worse it seems to take them weeks to get the stewards vision up which is presumably the video the stewards review prior to making those charges - e.g., still none from the 21/12 meeting at Ashburton which is a fat lot of good now, even though the note there says usually 3-4 days and I don't see why it should need to take that long with today's technology. From what I can see in this case it appears that CWJ only applied one back-hander with his hands off the reins a stride or two before the post, though he admitted the charge so presumably must have infringed.

[Chief Stipe]

5 minutes ago, curious said:

From what I can see in this case it appears that CWJ only applied one back-hander with his hands off the reins a stride or two before the post, though he admitted the charge so presumably must have infringed.

If he hadn't pleaded guilty as charged he would have definitely gone home out of pocket.  The rules are daft and unworkable if a kind rider like CWJ gets pinged frequently.

6 minutes ago, curious said:

To make matters worse it seems to take them weeks to get the stewards vision up which is presumably the video the stewards review prior to making those charges - e.g., still none from the 21/12 meeting at Ashburton which is a fat lot of good now, even though the note there says usually 3-4 days and I don't see why it should need to take that long with today's technology.

No reason why the Stewards vision isn't up the same day or within 24 hours.  I guess they have a few staff on holiday over the Christmas/New Year four week break.

[billy connolly]

On 6/01/2022 at 9:27 AM, Chief Stipe said:

C Johnson (LIGHT UP) - Admitted a charge of using the whip in two consecutive strides on his mount inside the final 100 metres. After considering submissions the Adjudicative Committee imposed a fine of $500.

According to the stipes report one Veronica Algar was the chair of stewards, what is her background please?

Is she the right person to be arraigning one of our best ever jockeys?

[Chief Stipe]

3 minutes ago, billy connolly said:

According to the stipes report one Veronica Algar was the chair of stewards, what is her background please?

Is she the right person to be arraigning one of our best ever jockeys?

But only last year she was a "Trainee Stipendiary Steward"......perhaps they should add Stipes to the draft licensing proposal.

[Freda]

44 minutes ago, billy connolly said:

According to the stipes report one Veronica Algar was the chair of stewards, what is her background please?

Is she the right person to be arraigning one of our best ever jockeys?

No.

[Reefton]

7 hours ago, curious said:

Why? Surely if we are going to have tiered racing there should be opportunities for horses racing in the feature+ tier most weeks?

Just a programming anomaly that in the ten weeks since Cup meeting there have been three feature days in the South all south of the Waitaki River.  Starting next Saturday there is a run of feature days(seven out of eight weekends or eight out of nine)

So the feature class horses have been doing a starve while the lower graders have had multiple opportunities - now it is going to flip around.

Why not spread them more evenly?

 

[Freda]

Yes, that makes good sense.

Personally, I don't think we have the horse population or geography to adequately run a tiered structure...but if we must, then there has to be a better way of smoothly getting horses through the grades, instead of the ridiculous logjam in R 65 that exists.   Yes, of course you can enter and run out of your class, if you must, to get a start - but why should you?

It doesn't seem too complicated - IMO - to have the lower class horses competing on industry days with ample maiden opportunities, and [ say ] R 58 - 62,  63- 68,  whatever, and then have the R 70's and up on the better days with better money.

With that sort of arrangement, no horse would be forced to wait around for weeks on end to have a run;  and if it had good ability, would quickly be through to having a go at slightly better stakes on a feature day.

[nomates]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

No.

One area of racing that IS being built from the bottom up , the very bottom . Biggest issue is some of them seem to get off the bottom when they should be heavily chained to the bottom .

[curious]

1 hour ago, Reefton said:

Just a programming anomaly that in the ten weeks since Cup meeting there have been three feature days in the South all south of the Waitaki River.  Starting next Saturday there is a run of feature days(seven out of eight weekends or eight out of nine)

So the feature class horses have been doing a starve while the lower graders have had multiple opportunities - now it is going to flip around.

Why not spread them more evenly?

 

Totally agree.

[curious]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

Yes, that makes good sense.

Personally, I don't think we have the horse population or geography to adequately run a tiered structure...but if we must, then there has to be a better way of smoothly getting horses through the grades, instead of the ridiculous logjam in R 65 that exists.   Yes, of course you can enter and run out of your class, if you must, to get a start - but why should you?

It doesn't seem too complicated - IMO - to have the lower class horses competing on industry days with ample maiden opportunities, and [ say ] R 58 - 62,  63- 68,  whatever, and then have the R 70's and up on the better days with better money.

With that sort of arrangement, no horse would be forced to wait around for weeks on end to have a run;  and if it had good ability, would quickly be through to having a go at slightly better stakes on a feature day.

Too sensible.

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

Yes, that makes good sense.

Personally, I don't think we have the horse population or geography to adequately run a tiered structure...but if we must, then there has to be a better way of smoothly getting horses through the grades, instead of the ridiculous logjam in R 65 that exists.   Yes, of course you can enter and run out of your class, if you must, to get a start - but why should you?

It doesn't seem too complicated - IMO - to have the lower class horses competing on industry days with ample maiden opportunities, and [ say ] R 58 - 62,  63- 68,  whatever, and then have the R 70's and up on the better days with better money.

With that sort of arrangement, no horse would be forced to wait around for weeks on end to have a run;  and if it had good ability, would quickly be through to having a go at slightly better stakes on a feature day.

Wasn't really advocating a tiered system Pam but agree with what you say.  Just think some horses are suited to industry days and some are suited(or only get suitable races) on the feature days.  Some maidens(an Iffraaj filly you have in work for instance - says the hopeful owner!) and R65's are feature day horses as well since they will quickly end up running on those days

Setting up a tiered system I reckon needs a look at the way horses are rated(whether that means two ratings - 'country' rating and 'city' rating - who knows but there needs to be a way older geldings are kept in work).  The alternative to two ratings is maybe going back to the  'for horses that have not won a race in the last six months' or whatever type of programming

Edited January 7, 2022 by Reefton

[curious]

2 hours ago, Freda said:

No.

The above says she's been in racing for 4 years. CWJ for 40+ in which time he has ridden close on 2500 winners. However, the judiciary have to enforce the rules and this is quite an important one and Chris admitted he breached the rule and he is not stupid. Without the benefit of the head on, it's hard to tell and I may be biased in this case but as far as I can see he has only struck the horse once with his hands off the reins. Slaps on the shoulder hands on reins do not count as strikes for the consecutive strikes rule as per the Rules. Just have to wait to see the evidence I suggest though not that much can be done about it now anyway.

[curious]

 

2 hours ago, Reefton said:

Just a programming anomaly

I'd call it stupidity. A bit more than an anomaly. Because of that we contemplated bringing mine back up here after cup week for a couple of months where there was a reasonable range of opportunities for him. For various reasons we decided against it, instead traipsing all round the SI to run in 12k races. It makes no sense if they want to set programming so they have consistent competitive wagering that attracts wagering interest and builds revenue. Nor, if they want to make the game more financially feasible for owners and trainers.

[Huey]

2 hours ago, curious said:

 

I'd call it stupidity. A bit more than an anomaly. Because of that we contemplated bringing mine back up here after cup week for a couple of months where there was a reasonable range of opportunities for him. For various reasons we decided against it, instead traipsing all round the SI to run in 12k races. It makes no sense if they want to set programming so they have consistent competitive wagering that attracts wagering interest and builds revenue. Nor, if they want to make the game more financially feasible for owners and trainers.

Haven't you read the document youv'e already got a considerable enough advantage especially financially, I'm still trying to work out where ... get back to you on that one.

[billy connolly]

7 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

But only last year she was a "Trainee Stipendiary Steward"

FFS, Veronica Algar, a former obscure stablehand with a couple of years bino's experience who has probably never been to a West Coast race meeting previously, fiddling with the livelihoods of license holders some of many years standing!

Preposterous.

 

[Huey]

8 minutes ago, billy connolly said:

FFS, Veronica Algar, a former obscure stablehand with a couple of years bino's experience who has probably never been to a West Coast race meeting previously, fiddling with the livelihoods of license holders some of many years standing!

Preposterous.

 

Yep absolutely laughable.

[Doomed]

14 hours ago, curious said:

Why? Surely if we are going to have tiered racing there should be opportunities for horses racing in the feature+ tier most weeks?

14 weeks without a feature meeting anywhere in Canterbury Curious. Non stop feature meetings in Otago Southland. Makes you think they might have no idea.

[Doomed]

20 hours ago, Reefton said:

 

I have the composition of the RJC submission re the dates stewing away between my ears as we speak but the bottom line is three meetings here over five days is impossible.  We need a reshuffle of the Calendar so we have it over a minimum of 7 days but the logical deal is four meetings in 10 days(Thursday 5th - Reefton - Sunday 8th - Greymouth  - Wednesday 11th - Greymouth(maybe the Westland Racing Club) and Saturday 14th at Kumara).  Shift Waikouaiti to Jan 3rd from the 14th.  God knows seven feature meetings in eight weeks is too short a timeframe.

Mind you that is common sense and getting common sense out of the hoi polloi on Wellington/Parnell might be pushing shiite uphill

The Waikouaiti feature day is a disgrace. It was purely a reward for giving up their track and day without complaint. Money no object when it comes to bribes like that. Meanwhile Timaru has no feature days. A much more logical pattern would have been for Timaru to race on New Years day with a feature meeting.

[Chief Stipe]

16 hours ago, curious said:

The above says she's been in racing for 4 years. CWJ for 40+ in which time he has ridden close on 2500 winners. However, the judiciary have to enforce the rules and this is quite an important one and Chris admitted he breached the rule and he is not stupid. Without the benefit of the head on, it's hard to tell and I may be biased in this case but as far as I can see he has only struck the horse once with his hands off the reins. Slaps on the shoulder hands on reins do not count as strikes for the consecutive strikes rule as per the Rules. Just have to wait to see the evidence I suggest though not that much can be done about it now anyway.

They must have a great Stipe training system - you can go from being a Trainee Stipendiary Steward to Raceday Chairman of Stewards in a just over a year.  There must have been a lot of theoretical papers to sit based on video watching etc given the impact of pandemic lockdowns on real world racing.  It would appear there was no "prior recognised learning" as would be the case with a licensed Jockey.

Are Stipes licensed and/or have a structured trainined programme that is consistently repeatable and able to be reviewed?  "Don't do as we do, do as we say?" 

Was it better in the good old days when some Stipes individually were past Jockey's or at the very least the Chief Stipe had been one?

NZTR/RIB - you desire to impose standards, rules, regulations and licensing on those who provide the product that pays your wages but do you have your own house in order?