Principled Pitmans

[Doomed]

I was impressed to read the article about the Pitmans where Michael said he wouldn't be attending the Wgtn Cup meeting this year after the fiasco on Captain Cook day. Apparently he got $250 compensation for every horse he took to the meeting, the same as someone zipping down from the Manawatu. That is appalling treatment from the WRC and NZTR.

When you consider the SI has won more half of the Telegraphs run over the last 5 years, you do wonder what the field will be like without them.

[Chief Stipe]

Quote:

Meanwhile, the Pitman colours are traditionally a familiar feature of the Wellington Cup carnival at Trentham every January, but they will not be on show in 2022 following the abandonment of the Captain Cook Stakes raceday in December.

“It cost us several thousand dollars to take horses all the way up to Wellington last time, and all we got was $250 in compensation – the same as the horses that came from Manawatu,” Pitman said.

“So I’m refusing to go back there for their carnival this year, and I’m going to support some good South Island races with my horses instead.

“Miss Tycoon Rose will run in the Gr.3 White Robe Lodge (1600m) in Dunedin on February 5.”

[Joe Bloggs]

What a great idea to find some extra sponsors and make the SI races Iconic and offer subsidies for the northern horses to come on down.....to actually boycott that run down, den of iniquity called Trentham.

I don't blame Pitman, Trentham nailed their colours to the mast, the committee should have stood up to the plate, the owners shafted again, WAFJ.

[nomates]

38 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

What a great idea to find some extra sponsors and make the SI races Iconic and offer subsidies for the northern horses to come on down.....to actually boycott that run down, den of iniquity called Trentham.

 

Well Joe you will be pleased to hear that one of WRC big sponsors The Gillies Group has proposed a full redevelopment of the public areas at Trentham . The Race Inc board and the WRC committee have unanimously endorsed a joint venture concept .

The Upper Hutt City Council have applied to the $2b Infrastructure Acceleration Fund , Race are now working with central govt and expecting anoutcome soon .

So the few that do frequent the den of iniquity are going to be doing it in luxury .

This information comes from the Race 2021 Annual Report , horses mouth so to speak .

[Joe Bloggs]

In other words NM, they're building a Casino where the grand old lady [stand] was/is.......I wish they wouldn't beat about the bush, just tell us, pokies, blackjack, roulette, yippee........Upper Hutt demographics maybe?

[nomates]

It's like watching a once great boxer embarrassing themselves thinking they still have it . It's like doing up a urinal , doesn't change what's happening in it . 

It's not going to future proof racing in the CD , just continuing down the same dreary path . Where's the vibrant innovative ideas . Flushed down the newly painted urinal .

[Joe Bloggs]

Touche!

[mumbles]

What if your an owner with a prospect for Wellington.What would you do.Change stables?

I Would.

[Doomed]

His major owners with prospects probably all went to the abandoned meeting and probably spent thousands on accommodation and travel, and of course it was them who actually paid for all the horse costs as well, and also the expenses for the trainer to get to Trentham. So I imagine it was probably those connections who were most pissed off and said stuff that, we aren't going back. It probably cost them over $5,000 all up. 

And remember the Northern horses all got to race again the following week, on a track that they probably preferred. So it was very poor treatment for the Southerners, but a good result for Wingatui.

[Doomed]

I notice there are $30,000 worth of trainers incentives for the 3 Trentham meetings, paid for out of a the NZTR Innovation fund. Do trainers really need incentives to attend meetings with multiple group races? And does it seem fair that NZTR is already funding Trentham to run multiple group races with industry funds and then they spend another $30,000 of industry funds to try and encourage trainers to attend?

If the Pitmans aren't in attendance the $10,000 allocated for Southern trainers might go to someone who has a couple of starters over the 3 days.

[nomates]

5 minutes ago, Doomed said:

I notice there are $30,000 worth of trainers incentives for the 3 Trentham meetings, paid for out of a the NZTR Innovation fund. Do trainers really need incentives to attend meetings with multiple group races? And does it seem fair that NZTR is already funding Trentham to run multiple group races with industry funds and then they spend another $30,000 of industry funds to try and encourage trainers to attend?

If the Pitmans aren't in attendance the $10,000 allocated for Southern trainers might go to someone who has a couple of starters over the 3 days.

Don't agree with trainers incentives , yet again they have lost sight of who should be getting bonus' , the owner . Put up bonus' for a horse winning twice over the 3 days , even all 3 days , or for a horse that can win and then place in a black type race . Something that rewards the right person .

No we will give the guy who's job it is to get horses to the races already . And can lead to a trainer lining up horses just to chase the bonus .

[Joe Bloggs]

Absolutely agree, I won a few races at Hawkesbury, there was a jockeys prize, a set of golf clubs worth more than a grand, a trainers prize also, nada, zilch for the owners, the people that put on the show, as without them the jocks especially would have to pack shelves or drive Ubers........the owner is much neglected, more so in NZ......but, if they wont stand up and be counted they deserve every kick in the guts they get.......stand up and shout FFS.......

[Reefton]

8 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said:

Absolutely agree, I won a few races at Hawkesbury, there was a jockeys prize, a set of golf clubs worth more than a grand, a trainers prize also, nada, zilch for the owners, the people that put on the show, as without them the jocks especially would have to pack shelves or drive Ubers........the owner is much neglected, more so in NZ......but, if they wont stand up and be counted they deserve every kick in the guts they get.......stand up and shout FFS.......

Wait till the 'Elite' Trainers get into action and the training fees skyrocket.  The owners will really get a boot in the guts then

[Chief Stipe]

On 9/01/2022 at 10:00 AM, Doomed said:

I was impressed to read the article about the Pitmans where Michael said he wouldn't be attending the Wgtn Cup meeting this year after the fiasco on Captain Cook day. Apparently he got $250 compensation for every horse he took to the meeting, the same as someone zipping down from the Manawatu. That is appalling treatment from the WRC and NZTR.

When you consider the SI has won more half of the Telegraphs run over the last 5 years, you do wonder what the field will be like without them.

Thinking about this a bit more - why the distinction between Matamata and Christchurch in terms of travel to Trentham?

It's 500km by road from Matamata to Trentham.

336km by road from Christchurch to Picton - 64km ferry trip and then 30km up the Hutt motorway to Trentham.  Total distance 430km.

The Matamata horses travel further!!!  Hardly zipping down!

[Doomed]

13 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Thinking about this a bit more - why the distinction between Matamata and Christchurch in terms of travel to Trentham?

It's 500km by road from Matamata to Trentham.

336km by road from Christchurch to Picton - 64km ferry trip and then 30km up the Hutt motorway to Trentham.  Total distance 430km.

The Matamata horses travel further!!!  Hardly zipping down!

It was Manawatu horses that got to 'zip down".

The Matamata horses got to head home and then race in the same races for the same stakes the following week, plus their stablemates also had the option of racing in those races without any travel at all. The Southern horses got to head home and race for $12,000.

Between that abandoned meeting and this coming weekend there have been two feature meetings in the SI; one in Southland and one in Otago. During the same time the NI has had 11 feature meetings. There have been no feature meetings in Canterbury. From the time of the abandoned Trentham meeting until the next feature meeting in Canterbury 8 weeks will have passed. Long time to keep paying training bills.

So, a bit disingenuous to suggest the consequences were much the same for horses from Matamata and Riccarton.

[Chief Stipe]

8 minutes ago, Doomed said:

It was Manawatu horses that got to 'zip down".

My apologies - confirmation bias....

Then both Matamata AND the South Island have a fair beef over the compensation.

[Chief Stipe]

10 minutes ago, Doomed said:

The Southern horses got to head home and race for $12,000.

Between that abandoned meeting and this coming weekend there have been two feature meetings in the SI; one in Southland and one in Otago. During the same time the NI has had 11 feature meetings. There have been no feature meetings in Canterbury. From the time of the abandoned Trentham meeting until the next feature meeting in Canterbury 8 weeks will have passed. Long time to keep paying training bills.

So, a bit disingenuous to suggest the consequences were much the same for horses from Matamata and Riccarton.

Well then @Pitman needs to look in the mirror has he dominates the Canterbury Programming and Track Committees.  No doubt he has considerable influence on the rest of the South Island as well.  Doesn't help that the Riccarton track can't sustain enough racing either.

[nomates]

12 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Well then @Pitman needs to look in the mirror has he dominates the Canterbury Programming and Track Committees.  No doubt he has considerable influence on the rest of the South Island as well.  Doesn't help that the Riccarton track can't sustain enough racing either.

Hard to start complaining when they are building you a training track .

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Well then @Pitman needs to look in the mirror has he dominates the Canterbury Programming and Track Committees.  No doubt he has considerable influence on the rest of the South Island as well.  Doesn't help that the Riccarton track can't sustain enough racing either.

Crap.  How much influence do you think he has?  he might provide 5 or 6% of the starters but the programmes are by and large the same year on year.  More accurate to say Tim Mills dominates the programming.  Pitty is not even the  Trainers Assn head or rep in Canterbury.

I have told you before get over your Pitman obsession

 

[Chief Stipe]

19 hours ago, Reefton said:

Crap.  How much influence do you think he has?  he might provide 5 or 6% of the starters but the programmes are by and large the same year on year.  More accurate to say Tim Mills dominates the programming.  Pitty is not even the  Trainers Assn head or rep in Canterbury.

I have told you before get over your Pitman obsession

 

Take your blinkers off @Reefton.

If as you say the following Committees dont have any influence on Tracks and Programming what is the point of having them?

 

[Reefton]

6 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Take your blinkers off @Reefton.

If as you say the following Committees dont have any influence on Tracks and Programming what is the point of having them?

 

Listen you frigging idiot.  Matthew Pitman is not Michael Pitman - he is Michael Pitman's son.  You fancy yourself as knowing everything but even the basics are beyond you.   Michael Pitman is on the programming committee sure(probably because nobody else will do it) but as I previously said that is basically a rubber stamping exercise for last year's programmes to be repeated and Tim Mills dominates that.  As Pitty has often said how could you manipulate the programming effectively when you are doing it three to six months ahead?  How do you know what horses will be graded where.

 

 

[KickintheKods]

Steady Reefton, don't blow a valve.

You must have learnt by now that when it comes to discussing ANY topic with our Chief, you need to be able to read his body language.

For example, we know he likes to stick his nose into many areas.

His tongue seems to be close to particular industry participant's privates.

His backside has a habit of spurting hot air, and

His feet have a habit of inhabiting his mouth.

 

So sit back and relax and observe and enjoy. After all, he does provide the means for us to have the opportunity to have a laugh. 

[curious]

7 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Take your blinkers off @Reefton.

If as you say the following Committees dont have any influence on Tracks and Programming what is the point of having them?

 

Agree. Not much point having them. Haven't done anything constructive round the country for decades. Tried to get the TA to organise programming a month in advance based on available horses. That was two decades ago. Not interested. Too hard.

[Chief Stipe]

17 hours ago, Reefton said:

Listen you frigging idiot.  Matthew Pitman is not Michael Pitman - he is Michael Pitman's son.  You fancy yourself as knowing everything but even the basics are beyond you.   Michael Pitman is on the programming committee sure(probably because nobody else will do it) but as I previously said that is basically a rubber stamping exercise for last year's programmes to be repeated and Tim Mills dominates that.  As Pitty has often said how could you manipulate the programming effectively when you are doing it three to six months ahead?  How do you know what horses will be graded where.

Really?  You are splitting hairs or rather splitting the training partnership?  So it is "basically a rubber stamping exercise" - the why bother with the committees or being on them if you have no influence over the programming mess?

So Tim Mills is the problem even though he isn't on the committee?  FFS.

[Chief Stipe]

17 hours ago, KickintheKods said:

Steady Reefton, don't blow a valve.

You must have learnt by now that when it comes to discussing ANY topic with our Chief, you need to be able to read his body language.

For example, we know he likes to stick his nose into many areas.

His tongue seems to be close to particular industry participant's privates.

His backside has a habit of spurting hot air, and

His feet have a habit of inhabiting his mouth.

 

So sit back and relax and observe and enjoy. After all, he does provide the means for us to have the opportunity to have a laugh. 

Charming (not) but a poor attempt at humour.  Getting back to the issues confronting the industry - what are you suggestions to fix the issues?  Or is that beyond you?  What would YOU do to fix the programming issues?

Seems it has been established in the discussion so far that the Programming Committees have no influence nor do the leading trainers that are on them.  Not that I believe that.