AWT

[curious]

On 16/06/2022 at 8:30 AM, Doomed said:

I'm still waiting for the AWTs to prevent the first abandoned meeting: that was their big selling point by Winston.

To me that argument is totally illogical, at least if you only use it in the winter. Most horses racing at that time of year are obviously winter gallopers, slower types generally needing heavier tracks to be able to keep up. Transferring races from heavy grass tracks to an AWT where they are running 1.09/1.22 and change is not going to be any use to them at all and once connections work that out they are just going to scratch many of them upon transfer. It may be a somewhat specialist surface but is generally more likely to suit firm track horses that can run time. As far as back up is concerned it therefore seems more likely that the AWTs would be a better back up for abandoned summer meetings, not winter ones.

[Doomed]

39 minutes ago, curious said:

To me that argument is totally illogical, at least if you only use it in the winter. Most horses racing at that time of year are obviously winter gallopers, slower types generally needing heavier tracks to be able to keep up. Transferring races from heavy grass tracks to an AWT where they are running 1.09/1.22 and change is not going to be any use to them at all and once connections work that out they are just going to scratch many of them upon transfer. It may be a somewhat specialist surface but is generally more likely to suit firm track horses that can run time. As far as back up is concerned it therefore seems more likely that the AWTs would be a better back up for abandoned summer meetings, not winter ones.

I initially thought you were saying my argument was illogical, but I see you mean their usefulness for preventing abandoned meetings is illogical, and I agree totally.  Sadly, we all know that was one of the big justifications when they were first promoted. Still, at least it won't be the first, or last, time NZTR get things wrong.

[Doomed]

13 hours ago, Reefton said:

I don't suppose the CJC cared  JB.  The had just been gifted a massive asset courtesy of the NZ taxpayer via the provincial growth fund.  That is the most sickening aspect of the whole thing for me - a fund set up  at NZ Firsts insistence to benefit the provinces twisted by Winston Peters to advantage the metropolitan areas and ultimately the result will be to massively disadvantage racing in those rural areas that fund was intended to promote

The old saying - you don't look a gift horse in the mouth.  Those big clubs have had millions and millions and millions of dollars lavished on them over decades and they still can't produce a quality product and nobody wants to go to their tracks (save for two or three days a year).  It is bullshit

I watched some races at Te Rapa and Trentham yesterday. When the camera panned over the grandstands you would have thought we were racing in covid times, hardly a soul to be seen. It made me think Riccarton is propably right not wanting a public grandstand. 

Compare that to the massive crowds at Ipswich yesterday, a city with a similar population to Hamilton and Wgtn.

We really have lost our way, and it is the big city tracks that have lost their way the most. As Reefton says, the very tracks that are getting all the money poured into them. Any other industry would consolidate outside of the loss leading white elephants.

[mikeynz]

39 minutes ago, Doomed said:

I watched some races at Te Rapa and Trentham yesterday. When the camera panned over the grandstands you would have thought we were racing in covid times, hardly a soul to be seen. It made me think Riccarton is propably right not wanting a public grandstand. 

Compare that to the massive crowds at Ipswich yesterday, a city with a similar population to Hamilton and Wgtn.

We really have lost our way, and it is the big city tracks that have lost their way the most. As Reefton says, the very tracks that are getting all the money poured into them. Any other industry would consolidate outside of the loss leading white elephants.

One wonders if Kelvin Tyler's is missing Oamaru and Riccarton coming up this week.

[Shad]

3 hours ago, Doomed said:

I watched some races at Te Rapa and Trentham yesterday. When the camera panned over the grandstands you would have thought we were racing in covid times, hardly a soul to be seen. It made me think Riccarton is propably right not wanting a public grandstand. 

Compare that to the massive crowds at Ipswich yesterday, a city with a similar population to Hamilton and Wgtn.

We really have lost our way, and it is the big city tracks that have lost their way the most. As Reefton says, the very tracks that are getting all the money poured into them. Any other industry would consolidate outside of the loss leading white elephants.

Have to agree with that comment, I said exactly the same to my wife, even before lockdown hardly any patrons attended.

[Huey]

7 hours ago, curious said:

To me that argument is totally illogical, at least if you only use it in the winter. Most horses racing at that time of year are obviously winter gallopers, slower types generally needing heavier tracks to be able to keep up. Transferring races from heavy grass tracks to an AWT where they are running 1.09/1.22 and change is not going to be any use to them at all and once connections work that out they are just going to scratch many of them upon transfer. It may be a somewhat specialist surface but is generally more likely to suit firm track horses that can run time. As far as back up is concerned it therefore seems more likely that the AWTs would be a better back up for abandoned summer meetings, not winter ones.

But that in itself shouldn't matter, as horses being nominated for a Heavy 10 abandoned meeting are likely to be horses who need the Heavy ground and are therefore essentially in the same boat racing on the AWT (fields kept same and transferred to the AWT) re being able to run those times. Unless of course it was a safety issue for them , which I can't understand why.

I also thought the transfer of meetings was the actual main selling point for these tracks from what I can remember. 

[Reefton]

10 hours ago, Doomed said:

I watched some races at Te Rapa and Trentham yesterday. When the camera panned over the grandstands you would have thought we were racing in covid times, hardly a soul to be seen. It made me think Riccarton is propably right not wanting a public grandstand. 

Compare that to the massive crowds at Ipswich yesterday, a city with a similar population to Hamilton and Wgtn.

We really have lost our way, and it is the big city tracks that have lost their way the most. As Reefton says, the very tracks that are getting all the money poured into them. Any other industry would consolidate outside of the loss leading white elephants.

And that is in the depths of winter (that Te Rapa and Trentham have no crowds).  We have seen them with bugger all more on some of their 'best' days (January and February)

Racing as a passtime is rapidly goign down the toilet and the only ones keeping their head above water appeal wise are the Cromwells. Kumara, Kurow, and co(maybe one or two up north but I am not even sure who is running and where they are running anymore but Thames and the Wairarapa Clubs spring to mind).

 

[Reefton]

My 'Business Plan' for NZTR (simple and to the point but guaranteed to achieve the maximum benefit for the NZ industry overall)

'Every Club will be asked to provide a rate of return analysis to the NZ Racing Industry based on the market value of their assets and the overall profit achieved by the Club(as a percentage)

Clubs with a result of lower than the average ROR will be asked to justify their continuing to be issued permits to hold race meetings in this Country and further to explain why their assets should not be seized - as provided by the Racing Act 2021 - for the general benefit of the industry overall'

Based on some of the wanker consultants your organisation has engaged over the years Bruce, the quality (or otherwise) of their output- generally incomprehensible garbage - and the quality and succinctness on that first line I believe a fee of $150,000 - plus GST of course - for my services(as a Chartered Accountant of 35 years of experience) in providing that advice is appropriate.

Let me know where to email the invoice to will you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mooncoin]

10 hours ago, mikeynz said:

One wonders if Kelvin Tyler's is missing Oamaru and Riccarton coming up this week.

By all accounts, loving the warmer winter, clean training /track facilities, and prize money. 

[Gospel of Judas]

32 minutes ago, Reefton said:

My 'Business Plan' for NZTR (simple and to the point but guaranteed to achieve the maximum benefit for the NZ industry overall)

'Every Club will be asked to provide a rate of return analysis to the NZ Racing Industry based on the market value of their assets and the overall profit achieved by the Club(as a percentage)

Clubs with a result of lower than the average ROR will be asked to justify their continuing to be issued permits to hold race meetings in this Country and further to explain why their assets should not be seized - as provided by the Racing Act 2021 - for the general benefit of the industry overall'

Based on some of the wanker consultants your organisation has engaged over the years Bruce, the quality (or otherwise) of their output- generally incomprehensible garbage - and the quality and succinctness on that first line I believe a fee of $150,000 - plus GST of course - for my services(as a Chartered Accountant of 35 years of experience) in providing that advice is appropriate.

Let me know where to email the invoice to will you

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't be like that!  love see Auckland and Waikato  produce proper ROR or cost of capital. Then fat cats in breeding industry could stop parasiting  off  everyone else. Could even produce consultancy report on what restructuring HQ Wellington could be like.  With my Bachelor of Business in Finance  for nice fee...

[curious]

15 hours ago, Huey said:

I also thought the transfer of meetings was the actual main selling point for these tracks from what I can remember. 

I don't know where that idea comes from Huey. I went back and had a look at some of the announcements but can't find anywhere that is suggested. What was suggested is that meetings programmed for AWTs are much less likely to be abandoned due to weather and therefore overall abandonments should be reduced once more winter racing is programmed on the AWTs. I'm not sure that transferring scheduled grass meetings to an AWT would be feasible or pragmatic anyway, except perhaps from the grass track at the same venue as the AWT. Riccarton is the only one in that position at the moment.

Edited June 19, 2022 by curious

[mikeynz]

People, I've just had a look at the love racing website, Oamaru in the middle of winter has a track rated good, bet the north island can't produce one like that.

[nomates]

The A/W's were supposed to save the industry a small fortune in lost revenue from abandonments and postponements , well that only works if those days lost were actually making money in the first place , which we know is highly dubious , if anything the industry made more from stakes saved , so were the A/W's really needed or were all those in favor of them merely magpies .  

[Doomed]

4 hours ago, curious said:

I don't know where that idea comes from Huey. I went back and had a look at some of the announcements but can't find anywhere that is suggested. What was suggested is that meetings programmed for AWTs are much less likely to be abandoned due to weather and therefore overall abandonments should be reduced once more winter racing is programmed on the AWTs. I'm not sure that transferring scheduled grass meetings to an AWT would be feasible or pragmatic anyway, except perhaps from the grass track at the same venue as the AWT. Riccarton is the only one in that position at the moment.

Come on curious. It takes literally 10 seconds of googling to find numerous articles where abandoned meetings were used as the major justification for the spend on AWTs.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/101002951/allweather-racing-track-promised-by-winston-peters

Meetings that were cancelled due to wet weather in and near those regions could be transferred to an all-weather track,

[curious]

54 minutes ago, Doomed said:

Come on curious. It takes literally 10 seconds of googling to find numerous articles where abandoned meetings were used as the major justification for the spend on AWTs.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/101002951/allweather-racing-track-promised-by-winston-peters

Meetings that were cancelled due to wet weather in and near those regions could be transferred to an all-weather track,

 

[curious]

 

55 minutes ago, Doomed said:

Come on curious. It takes literally 10 seconds of googling to find numerous articles where abandoned meetings were used as the major justification for the spend on AWTs.

I agree that abandoned meetings were used as a justification but my take on that was that meetings on the AWTs once in place were much less likely to be abandoned, not the suggestion that John Allen makes there about transferring grass meetings to AWTs. I think that meeting abandonments will in fact decrease for that reason once the AWTs are all up and running and I agree with John Allen's comment that for that purpose they needed to be built closest to the main horse populations.

[curious]

The application to the PGF clearly did not argue anything about transferring meetings. It actually gave as a rationale on the reduction of abandoned meetings:

Abandonments avoided through a combination of increased meetings on Synthetic surfaces and
improvements to efficiency of scheduling.

[Doomed]

3 hours ago, curious said:

The application to the PGF clearly did not argue anything about transferring meetings. It actually gave as a rationale on the reduction of abandoned meetings:

Abandonments avoided through a combination of increased meetings on Synthetic surfaces and
improvements to efficiency of scheduling.

So you are arguing that the provincial growth fund was happy to fund a track in the middle of ChCh as that would enable NZTR to close down racing in Timaru, Banks Pen, Rangiora, Waimate and Marlborough? Those provincial areas would presumably be much better off not having to maintain a local racetrack and they would be delighted to be able to sell their tracks so the funds realised could be used to support Riccarton, Trentham and Ellerslie.

That philanthropic gesture would do wonders for the mental wellbeing of all those provincial centres.

The next logical step based on that precedent is to sell the main rugby grounds in Timaru, Ashburton, Rangiora, Blenheim and a few other assorted country towns and use those funds to fund Christchurch's new covered stadium. Once the PGF sees those smaller centres are totally in favour of that approach the PGF would almost certainly come to the party and throw money into the ChCh stadium as well.

[Reefton]

44 minutes ago, Doomed said:

 

That philanthropic gesture would do wonders for the mental wellbeing of all those provincial centres.

 

Problem being that those smaller provincial centres are not aware that what is rightly theirs (under Clubs Constitutions) is going to be ripped off them under the legalised theft document that the current Racing Act represents.

[mikeynz]

3 hours ago, Doomed said:

So you are arguing that the provincial growth fund was happy to fund a track in the middle of ChCh as that would enable NZTR to close down racing in Timaru, Banks Pen, Rangiora, Waimate and Marlborough? Those provincial areas would presumably be much better off not having to maintain a local racetrack and they would be delighted to be able to sell their tracks so the funds realised could be used to support Riccarton, Trentham and Ellerslie.

That philanthropic gesture would do wonders for the mental wellbeing of all those provincial centres.

The next logical step based on that precedent is to sell the main rugby grounds in Timaru, Ashburton, Rangiora, Blenheim and a few other assorted country towns and use those funds to fund Christchurch's new covered stadium. Once the PGF sees those smaller centres are totally in favour of that approach the PGF would almost certainly come to the party and throw money into the ChCh stadium as well.

A very interesting article in the ODT recently questioning the wisdom of the South Island with a small population needing two covered stadiums.

Havnt see Scott Robertson offering any money on behalf of the rugby boys to help with the new stadium, and neither will ya.

Just shift the games to Dunedin, or Nelson, or maybe even Eden Park, or just play in Christchurch and stop all being like a bunch of pansies.

Edited June 20, 2022 by mikeynz

[curious]

9 hours ago, Doomed said:

So you are arguing that the provincial growth fund was happy to fund a track in the middle of ChCh as that would enable NZTR to close down racing in Timaru, Banks Pen, Rangiora, Waimate and Marlborough?

No WD. Not at all. What I am arguing is that the rationale for synthetics with respect to reducing abandonments was based on scheduling more winter races/meetings on the AWTs where they are much less likely to suffer weather related abandonments rather than so that last minute transfers of abandoned grass meetings could occur. That scheduling is already in place at 2 of the 3 AWT venues this winter with Awapuni presumably to come on stream next winter.

I have already shared my thoughts at the time here and elsewhere on the PGF funding, particularly of Riccarton. The PDU was clearly not happy as you suggested, to fund it stating that ""The proposed Riccarton Park synthetic racing track is located in Christchurch City, which is ineligible for PGF funding," The PDU "assessed that the project did not meet the PGF's criteria" and it was "unclear as to the extent the proposal would increase productivity", despite likely benefits of job retention and security for industry workers"

Unfortunately (from a taxpayer perspective), due to some political shenanigans of the coalition government and a very fuzzy process, the funding eventually materialised from a subsequent application.

So, now we have them, we need to make the best use of them that we can and somehow ensure they are well maintained. Aside from the racing they certainly are a great training asset.

Edited June 20, 2022 by curious

[Freda]

51 minutes ago, curious said:

 

I have already shared my thoughts at the time here and elsewhere on the PGF funding, particularly of Riccarton. The PDU was clearly not happy as you suggested, to fund it stating that ""The proposed Riccarton Park synthetic racing track is located in Christchurch City, which is ineligible for PGF funding," The PDU "assessed that the project did not meet the PGF's criteria" and it was "unclear as to the extent the proposal would increase productivity", despite likely benefits of job retention and security for industry workers"

Unfortunately (from a taxpayer perspective), due to some political shenanigans of the coalition government and a very fuzzy process, the funding eventually materialised from a subsequent application.

 

The eloquence and reasoning put forward in support was a joy to behold.

[Huey]

Ken Kelso on Weigh In describing the AWT as "White Elephants" ... surely not!

[nomates]

12 minutes ago, Huey said:

Ken Kelso on Weigh In describing the AWT as "White Elephants" ... surely not!

They'll be gunning for him now , not singing from the correct hymn sheet . 

[Chief Stipe]

You heard it here first.

https://bitofayarn.com/topic/77361-are-the-aws-already-becoming-a-white-elephant/#comment-191410