Rangatira Posted July 28, 2022 Author Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Gammalite said: Why ? did they burn it down again. ? Here's one of the Greatest Photo's Ever Taken in the World, with Cardigan Bay leading up the Nz FFA field (the very race we were plugging earlier by co-incidence lol.... ) as the last race of the day. The crowd all moved in an orderly manner to the front (foreground) to watch the race while they waited for the fire brigade to arrive !!!!!!!!!! again you kiwis are amazing Cardy Won of course !!! Brodster on the left up against fence ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 19 minutes ago, Gammalite said: Good news for you Michael is....... The very Elite have and Do Win the NZ Cup. It's an amazing list of winners !!. Barely a champion missing. Young Quinn with the 2 placings was one surprise miss. Whatever the start conditions introduced , the Big Players play well.. Hey why not go like Formula One and make it totally boring and give the best rated and fastest the Pole draw? and work outward from there. Go Lewis Hamilton lol...You might get the 'Elite' Winner you desire badly then ... Might get an Allstars whole front-line at Addington lol ??? (humor matey ) This is getting repetitive mate 1. You think that an average horse should be given a better chance to win a NZ Cup by giving him a head start I don't 2. You think it would be ok if the 3 best horses in Australasia miss the NZ Cup I don't 3. You think you make sense I don't (think you do) 4. You think I'm wrong I disagree, and think you must smoke too much weed Can you tell me why Majestic Cruiser (who won the Messenger wasn't it?) should give a Miracle Mile winner and a NZ FFA winner a 10m start? No waffle, just tell me why 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted July 28, 2022 Author Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Michael said: Expect a huge back flip very soon https://www.parraeels.com.au/news/2019/05/05/fergusons-flip-celebration-has-bankwest-roaring/?fbclid=IwAR3E6kzLFpQxufDV2KrImgS3xPEtH6lIY7j3yespRG3YQ8l0bWyDc5ehzqc Edited July 28, 2022 by Rangatira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Michael said: That’s the point I’m making The very elite should win the Cup Not a bunny benefitting from a head start If we take your suggestion further then races at ATC should be run for $7000 correct? We all understand your point. Calling a horse winning a nz cup a bunny because they had a 10m start from a previous dual cup winner just highlights how much you are overstating your argument. As to the level of aucklands stakes.Actually,to me its just common sense they should reduce stake levels,assuming their financial position is as has been reported. It just depends on what their expenditure/income is.Auckland has no realistic future,given the quality of betting product,or lack of,that it serves up each week Edited July 28, 2022 by the galah 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) . Edited July 28, 2022 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 35 minutes ago, Michael said: 1. You think that an average horse should be given a better chance to win a NZ Cup by giving him a head start I don't Why would it be average? 36 minutes ago, Michael said: 2. You think it would be ok if the 3 best horses in Australasia miss the NZ Cup I don't Do you know they won't start? 37 minutes ago, Michael said: 3. You think you make sense I don't (think you do) 4. You think I'm wrong I disagree, and think you must smoke too much weed Why do you feel the need for the ad hominem attacks? Are you stating that all the horses that won the NZ Cup off the front (does second row count?) when it was a handicap were bunnies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Michael said: Incompetence all around? Well until I heard that someone was contemplating making changes to feature race conditions I thought they were all brain dead. About time we saw some debate. Breathes life into the sport! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 Slight tangent here, but when you think about it how many 'champions" haven't managed to win the Cup, even when it was a handicap? Only really Delightful Lady and Sapling readily spring to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 THE BRODSTER gearing up the spitfire for start in the cup . looking for nice front line draw 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Michael said: This is getting repetitive mate 1. You think that an average horse should be given a better chance to win a NZ Cup by giving him a head start I don't 2. You think it would be ok if the 3 best horses in Australasia miss the NZ Cup I don't 3. You think you make sense I don't (think you do) 4. You think I'm wrong I disagree, and think you must smoke too much weed Can you tell me why Majestic Cruiser (who won the Messenger wasn't it?) should give a Miracle Mile winner and a NZ FFA winner a 10m start? No waffle, just tell me why ANSWER 4. I don't smoke weed. You making Stuff up again to assassinate character ? ANSWER 4. Didn't say you were wrong. I Said you were right actually , that the Best 'Elite' horse as you call it ,wins the Cup usually. Has done for hundred years plus. ANSWER 1. myself ONLY said 'CUP class horses' should be in the Nz Cup . YOU used the word 'average' . Not me . you making stuff up again ?. ANSWER 2. Once again I am saying they should be on 10m for winning Previous Nz Cups (or Rowe Cups or Dominion Hcap or AKLD Cups . TALK About Repetitive lol. This gives a Level Playing Field to ALL runners . (has worked for a Century) Very easy to understand. Doesn't really matter who I think should in the NZ Cup? . you just throwing sand . I think Sundees Son should be in the Nz Cup !!!!!!!!! there you go , go chew on that one ! lol. ANSWER 3. I always make Sense mate. You're the ONLY Person here accusing me with this unnecessary personal attack. You make sense to me . We're having a debate . you should be a politician . ANSWER 4. Majestic Cruiser should be Off the Front IN MY OPINION (am I allowed one anymore???) he hasn't won a 3200m stand. Copy That, Self Assured have = 10m . not rocket science. I'm gunna get a waffle , you're making me hungry . (humor mate humor) go and have a beer and cheer up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 20 minutes ago, Doomed said: Slight tangent here, but when you think about it how many 'champions" haven't managed to win the Cup, even when it was a handicap? Only really Delightful Lady and Sapling readily spring to mind. Great question !! when Delightful Lady Won her 2 Auckland Cups , the 2 years before Gammalite won his , it was a 2700m mobile event. Therefore Delightful Lady was very unfairly Handicapped on 10m in the Nz Cup 3200m stand (IMO) won by the warhorse 'Hands Down' , having not won at that 'distance / stand start in a feature race previously. The mighty mare still went very close, heading off Hands Down as they turned for home, for Mike Stormont, but a brilliant rally by Peter Jones and Hands Down saw him come back on the inside to victory. !!! what a race !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 18 minutes ago, Gammalite said: Great question !! when Delightful Lady Won her 2 Auckland Cups , the 2 years before Gammalite won his , it was a 2700m mobile event. Therefore Delightful Lady was very unfairly Handicapped on 10m in the Nz Cup 3200m stand (IMO) won by the warhorse 'Hands Down' , having not won at that 'distance / stand start in a feature race previously. The mighty mare still went very close, heading off Hands Down as they turned for home, for Mike Stormont, but a brilliant rally by Peter Jones and Hands Down saw him come back on the inside to victory. !!! what a race !! Yes, I was there that day. Probably the best ever Cup finish. I have a funny feeling Roydon Scott may have even been the fav that year, but I may be totally wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted July 28, 2022 Author Share Posted July 28, 2022 32 minutes ago, Doomed said: Yes, I was there that day. Probably the best ever Cup finish. I have a funny feeling Roydon Scott may have even been the fav that year, but I may be totally wrong. Correct 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 3 hours ago, the galah said: We all understand your point. Calling a horse winning a nz cup a bunny because they had a 10m start from a previous dual cup winner just highlights how much you are overstating your argument. As to the level of aucklands stakes.Actually,to me its just common sense they should reduce stake levels,assuming their financial position is as has been reported. It just depends on what their expenditure/income is.Auckland has no realistic future,given the quality of betting product,or lack of,that it serves up each week I didn't say 10m, it could have been 20m I wasn't referring to the TAC financial postion, I was responding to your call for stakes to match income from betting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gammalite said: ANSWER 4. Majestic Cruiser should be Off the Front IN MY OPINION (am I allowed one anymore???) he hasn't won a 3200m stand. Copy That, Self Assured have = 10m . not rocket science. I'm gunna get a waffle , you're making me hungry . (humor mate humor) go and have a beer and cheer up. But under this "proposal" he's off 10m While a Miracle Mile winner and a NZ FFA winner are off the Front Go figure I don't drink, but thanks for the thought Edited July 28, 2022 by Michael 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gammalite said: ANSWER 2. Once again I am saying they should be on 10m for winning Previous Nz Cups (or Rowe Cups or Dominion Hcap or AKLD Cups . TALK About Repetitive lol. This gives a Level Playing Field to ALL runners . (has worked for a Century) Very easy to understand. Doesn't really matter who I think should in the NZ Cup? . you just throwing sand . No, it's not a level playing field You are advocating for an uneven playing field for the Cup based on past performances Edited July 28, 2022 by Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gammalite said: ANSWER 4. I don't smoke weed. You making Stuff up again to assassinate character ? As you have said, develop a sense of humour ANSWER 1. myself ONLY said 'CUP class horses' should be in the Nz Cup . YOU used the word 'average' . Not me . you making stuff up again ?. Given the Ratings spread last year do you really think they are all "Cup" horses? ANSWER 3. I always make Sense mate. That's a matter of opinion isn't it? ANSWER 4. Majestic Cruiser should be Off the Front IN MY OPINION (am I allowed one anymore???) he hasn't won a 3200m stand. So if a horse wins an Auckland Cup over 2700m Stand he wouldn't get a penalty according to you, because he hasn't won a 3200m Stand? ANSWER 2. Once again I am saying they should be on 10m for winning Previous Nz Cups (or Rowe Cups or Dominion Hcap or AKLD Cups . TALK About Repetitive lol. This gives a Level Playing Field to ALL runners No, it's not a level playing field You are advocating for an uneven playing field for the Cup based on past performances Edited July 28, 2022 by Michael 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 4 hours ago, Rangatira said: Brodster on the left up against fence ? 2 hours ago, hunterthepunter said: THE BRODSTER gearing up the spitfire for start in the cup . looking for nice front line draw Where is “The Spitfire” racing not the same! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 2 minutes ago, Michael said: No, it's not a level playing field You are advocating for an uneven playing field for the Cup based on past performances No not really . I'm just expressing an opinion on a public forum. I'm not saying these things have to happen. therefore advocating it to anyone. It's just an opinion..... ok I understand that LEVEL PLAYING FIELD to you means LEVEL starting marks. that makes sense. I'll retract the comment of 'level playing field 'in that case and REWORD it to , Handicaps are designed to give an even chance of winning, to as many runners as possible ?? how does that sit ? whether it be at the gallops or at the trots. p.s Handicappers do a sterling Job !! I applied for the QLD handicapper job but another more recently retired Trainer got the position unfortunately. perhaps I had too much weed lol........ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
With A Dream Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Doomed said: Yes, I was there that day. Probably the best ever Cup finish. I have a funny feeling Roydon Scott may have even been the fav that year, but I may be totally wrong. You’re bang on Doomed. Lord Module was 3 fav and ran last. I think he refused to go away at the start. Roydon Scott finished well back. He was a very talented horse but suffered from arthritis otherwise he would have been up there with the best. Edited July 28, 2022 by With A Dream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 2 hours ago, Doomed said: Slight tangent here, but when you think about it how many 'champions" haven't managed to win the Cup, even when it was a handicap? Only really Delightful Lady and Sapling readily spring to mind. The Cup has a way of seeing the Best take a victory. Just did a little homework to see how the best and most popular and fastest horses have done in the big race. One expert has LIST of The Best 10 Harness Horses to of raced in Nz (and here's their Nz Cup result.) JOHNNY GLOBE won his cup off 48 yards behind handicap LORDSHIP 2 cup wins First one off the front , 2nd one off 42 yards. HIGHLAND FLING 2 cup wins off 12 yards then a mammoth 60 yards CADUCEUS *** 3rd off 12 yards, 2nd off 30 yards , 3rd off 48 yards . The Champ beaten by the Handicapper !! CARDIGAN BAY won his Cup off 54 yards behind. ROBIN DUNDEE *** ran three times 2nd in the Cup (behind Lordship and Cardigan Bay and Garry Dillon) was twice off the front mark and off 24 yards in the third attempt. BLOSSOM LADY Won the Cup off the front mark 1992 CHRISTIAN CULLEN Won the Cup off the front 1998 YOUNG QUINN *** twice 3rd in the NZ cup off the front mark behind Arapaho and Robalan. LAZARUS 2 wins off the front in FFA conditions So there is 10 of the greatest kiwis ever , and interesting to note that Two of the 3 horses to only Place in the New Zealand Cup (Young Quinn and Robin Dundee) had 2 goes at winning it off the front. Caduceus missed in All 5 goes at the NZ Cup, bit of a turn-up for the books ? (Caduceus, Quinny and Robin Dundee each all won an Interdominion in style though) 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 Nearly all the above New Zealand Champion Pacers were last century in previous post , so a quick check of the 'Other Big Race' to win the INTERDOMINION Grand Final, to see IF the NZ Winners of that Time honoured Title have Won an NZ Cup as well this Century. As they are the Stars of the Sport. YULESTAR 2001 Interdom Champ, and Won the Nz Cup off 10m in 2000. ELSU 2005 Interdom Champ, and twice 2nd in the NZ Cup to Just an Excuse (who was off 10m for 2nd Cup) SMOLDA 2016 Inter Champ , nose 2nd in NZ cup after galloping and losing near 50m at the start. LAZARUS 2017 Interdom Champ and twice Winner of the NZ Cup off the front. TIGER TARA 2018 Interdom Champ , twice 2nd and a 3rd in the NZ Cup off the front. ULTIMATE SNIPER 2019 Interdom Champ , don't think contested a Nz Cup. so only 2 Interdominion Champion's from NZ this century have managed to Win the NZ Cup as well. !! And one was more than 20 years ago in YULESTAR. LAZARUS takes the cake as this Centuries SuperChamp then!!!!!! (with Elsu, Smolda and Tiger Tara all narrowly defeated in the NZ Cup , but NOT beaten by the Handicapper in it) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 10 hours ago, With A Dream said: You’re bang on Doomed. Lord Module was 3 fav and ran last. I think he refused to go away at the start. Roydon Scott finished well back. He was a very talented horse but suffered from arthritis otherwise he would have been up there with the best. I remember it well because I turned up expecting Hands Down to be fav and Roydon Scott was going to be my value bet. I was quite surprised to find it the other way around. I think Hands Down may have paid about $8 to win. The 80s certainly was the great decade for harness racing. It really has crashed a long way from that position of strength, esp in the SI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 7 minutes ago, Doomed said: It really has crashed a long way from that position of strength, esp in the SI. And the North Island ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted July 28, 2022 Share Posted July 28, 2022 19 minutes ago, mikeynz said: And the North Island ? It never had a position of strength in the NI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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