Cambridge demolition derby

[Freda]

46 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

If Centaur  is correct re his statement he heard Ellis say what he did, then 'Big Dave'' needs to apologise, he may have been taken out of context, or Centaur may have misheard, but if Ellis did say that, well it's beyond comprehension.......

It was a shocker.  Sycophantic crap, and factually incorrect.

[Freda]

On 10/08/2022 at 8:04 AM, muzenza365 said:

Correct, this is reinforced by the actions of T Moseley at Ashburton, who put 3 on the deck,all 3 Riders put into hospital ,any of the 3 could have had the same serious consequence as Tiger and he gets a 4 week suspension.

If these types of penalties are given out by the JCA, then this roughhouse riding will continue,

So Pam you must be believe Sam is guilty before the charge is proven, going by your statement that he must live with the consequences, so are you correct in your assumption? 

Irrespective of what the judicial assessment of wrongdoing/penalty is,  Sam will know that at some point his actions contributed to the melee.

Your last sentence indicates that you feel Sam may not be deemed to be culpable, or totally culpable, if the stewards so decide. 

Does that mean that officialdom is automatically right?  Given your scuffles with the heirarchy - justifiable - I don't think you really believe that. 

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, Joe Bloggs said:

If Centaur  is correct re his statement he heard Ellis say what he did, then 'Big Dave'' needs to apologise, he may have been taken out of context, or Centaur may have misheard, but if Ellis did say that, well it's beyond comprehension.......

Can you let  go and focus on the Topic!

That's the least amount of respect you can show for the deceased jockey.

[Freda]

32 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Can you let  go and focus on the Topic!

That's the least amount of respect you can show for the deceased jockey.

That's unfair, Chief...and I think you have misinterpreted J.B's comments.   How does 'sanitising' the situation - and telling b/s, as done by Ellis - 'show respect' ?    

Making an effort to improve training, smarten up stipendiary understanding, and apply consistent penalties - and acknowleging that this doesn't always happen - shows far more respect, IMO, for a young man's life lost.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Thank you Freda, the Chief should do the right thing and listen to the interview, I have, it stinks to high heaven, Ellis is a ''Tokyo Rose'' if you don't know who that is Chief, do yourself a favour and google.......Ellis should not be congratulating NZTR for their handling of this matter, he's so out of touch it's appalling, Ellis is wrong, very wrong, he should have known the facts about all the racing related deaths, how bloody  stupid of him to say ''I believe there hasn't been a death in over 100 years'' for Gods sake man that's showing disrespect for all those poor souls that have lost their life and it appears Ellis has conveniently forgotten about them.....

No one is disrespecting Taiki, I worked in Japan, I went to the races there, a Japanese jockey rides for me regularly here, in fact I've had 3 of them ride for me, I know a damn sight more than you do about Japan, and Taiki had to go to NZ to get his opportunity, and that cost the poor little fella his life, God bless him, so don't go lecturing me, you bloody goose.

[Chief Stipe]

30 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said:

Thank you Freda, the Chief should do the right thing and listen to the interview, I have, it stinks to high heaven, Ellis is a ''Tokyo Rose'' if you don't know who that is Chief, do yourself a favour and google.......Ellis should not be congratulating NZTR for their handling of this matter, he's so out of touch it's appalling, Ellis is wrong, very wrong, he should have known the facts about all the racing related deaths, how bloody  stupid of him to say ''I believe there hasn't been a death in over 100 years'' for Gods sake man that's showing disrespect for all those poor souls that have lost their life and it appears Ellis has conveniently forgotten about them.....

No one is disrespecting Taiki, I worked in Japan, I went to the races there, a Japanese jockey rides for me regularly here, in fact I've had 3 of them ride for me, I know a damn sight more than you do about Japan, and Taiki had to go to NZ to get his opportunity, and that cost the poor little fella his life, God bless him, so don't go lecturing me, you bloody goose.

So it really helps going on and on about it. Distract from the real issues and the recent tragic death.

[Chief Stipe]

57 minutes ago, Freda said:

Making an effort to improve training, smarten up stipendiary understanding, and apply consistent penalties - and acknowleging that this doesn't always happen

Yes and where is the grass roots action on those issues?  

[Freda]

28 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Yes and where is the grass roots action on those issues?  

Ask the impotent Trainers' Assn.

[muzenza365]

6 hours ago, Freda said:

Irrespective of what the judicial assessment of wrongdoing/penalty is,  Sam will know that at some point his actions contributed to the melee.

Your last sentence indicates that you feel Sam may not be deemed to be culpable, or totally culpable, if the stewards so decide. 

Does that mean that officialdom is automatically right?  Given your scuffles with the heirarchy - justifiable - I don't think you really believe that. 

I have watched the replay many times and what i will say it was a marginal gap that Sam took and interestingly J Laking was questioned why he DIDN"T take a gap that was marginal yesterday..

The interesting fact is when you watch the replay i seen something that i have never seen before, if you watch it was that the horse that was positioned outside back leg makes contact with the horse outside that horse with his leg and Taki saddle had slipped right under his horse when it fell and also his helmut had also come off.

The main point i believe is, was there sufficient room for Sam's mount and when you watch the replay it was marginal,but if the Stewards questioned J Laking yesterday regarding why he didn't improve into a gap, which they stated was marginal, they can't one rule and another rule for others.

Also just for the record, I was in a race when Paul Goslin was killed at Greymouth around 35 years ago and he was apprenticed with me and sadly i got him the ride.

[Freda]

1 hour ago, muzenza365 said:

I have watched the replay many times and what i will say it was a marginal gap that Sam took and interestingly J Laking was questioned why he DIDN"T take a gap that was marginal yesterday..

That is interesting indeed.  Makes my point about smartening up stipendiary understanding all the more valid.

The interesting fact is when you watch the replay i seen something that i have never seen before, if you watch it was that the horse that was positioned outside back leg makes contact with the horse outside that horse with his leg and Taki saddle had slipped right under his horse when it fell and also his helmut had also come off.

Didn't tape the races so haven't seen any footage at all.

The main point i believe is, was there sufficient room for Sam's mount and when you watch the replay it was marginal,but if the Stewards questioned J Laking yesterday regarding why he didn't improve into a gap, which they stated was marginal, they can't one rule and another rule for others.

Exactly.  No consistency.  So how can riders reasonably follow the rules?  it becomes guesswork what is acceptable and what isn't.

Also just for the record, I was in a race when Paul Goslin was killed at Greymouth around 35 years ago and he was apprenticed with me and sadly i got him the ride.

Very sad indeed.  But hardly your fault, although I'm sure you felt like it was, at the time.

 

[jess]

Long time since I passed by this way.

Firstly - like all of us here I was immensely saddened to read of this tragedy.  Sincere condolences and love to Taiki's family.

As I recall from previous times here at BOAY - Freda is the voice of reason & commonsense - with intelligence and experience in the industry that always lends real credibility to her posts.  Respect.

Chief - go easy - I know this is an awful thing that's happened but I do think people are being respectful here - and largely constructive too, when speaking of racing, safety and related matters.

I didn't hear David Ellis speak - but the one thing that gave me pause for thought was why he was the one approached when so many others would have been better placed to speak to this.  It seems he has shown by his own utterances, however  intentioned, that he was a poor choice to speak on the matter.  Perhaps he would have been better when approached to have offered his sympathy (which I'm sure is genuine) & then to defer to someone who could speak more eruditely on this.

Fly high Taiki - may all your steeds be fast & true.  You felt the wind on your face & you've known the grace & speed of the thoroughbred.  Your final salute to the judge came way too soon.  

Jess  

[The Centaur]

On 11/08/2022 at 8:51 AM, Joe Bloggs said:

If Centaur  is correct re his statement he heard Ellis say what he did, then 'Big Dave'' needs to apologise, he may have been taken out of context, or Centaur may have misheard, but if Ellis did say that, well it's beyond comprehension.......

Its here at 1'36. However he deserves credit. Spoke very well apart from this one glitch.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018852891/racing-industry-mourns-jockey-killed-in-fall

[nomates]

For an insight into just how poor the riding standards are in the SI have a look at the ride in race 3 at Riccarton of Sanu Toolooa on Wee Tadhg , didn't really try on the horse till the 250mtrs and then you would have thought there was 20 horses around him . 

It was was one of the best efforts of having no idea that have seen for a while . 

Feel for the owner and trainer .

[Freda]

12 minutes ago, nomates said:

For an insight into just how poor the riding standards are in the SI have a look at the ride in race 3 at Riccarton of Sanu Toolooa on Wee Tadhg , didn't really try on the horse till the 250mtrs and then you would have thought there was 20 horses around him . 

It was was one of the best efforts of having no idea that have seen for a while . 

Feel for the owner and trainer .

Had to look at the replay, had been outside....what a shocker.   Will be interesting to see the stipes' report.

What's the odds that there will be mutterings about 'horse running greenly ' and a warning ?

[Joe Bloggs]

1 hour ago, nomates said:

For an insight into just how poor the riding standards are in the SI have a look at the ride in race 3 at Riccarton of Sanu Toolooa on Wee Tadhg , didn't really try on the horse till the 250mtrs and then you would have thought there was 20 horses around him . 

It was was one of the best efforts of having no idea that have seen for a while . 

Feel for the owner and trainer .

Give that man a medal

[Peanut]

On 8/11/2022 at 9:28 PM, jess said:

I didn't hear David Ellis speak - but the one thing that gave me pause for thought was why he was the one approached when so many others would have been better placed to speak to this.  It seems he has shown by his own utterances, however  intentioned, that he was a poor choice to speak on the matter.  Perhaps he would have been better when approached to have offered his sympathy (which I'm sure is genuine) & then to defer to someone who could speak more eruditely on this.

Fly high Taiki - may all your steeds be fast & true.  You felt the wind on your face & you've known the grace & speed of the thoroughbred.  Your final salute to the judge came way too soon.  

Jess  

Well put.   Taiki was much closer connected to any number of well respected and better informed people.  

 

[Freda]

5 hours ago, Freda said:

Had to look at the replay, had been outside....what a shocker.   Will be interesting to see the stipes' report.

What's the odds that there will be mutterings about 'horse running greenly ' and a warning ?

Nup.  Not even a warning.

[nomates]

25 minutes ago, Freda said:

Nup.  Not even a warning.

You didn't happen to hear if the trainer gave him the bash as he dismounted .

 

[Joe Bloggs]

34 minutes ago, nomates said:

You didn't happen to hear if the trainer gave him the bash as he dismounted .

 

George Hanlon used to kick the jocks in the shins as they bent down to undo the surcingle, could you blame him?

[Freda]

1 hour ago, nomates said:

You didn't happen to hear if the trainer gave him the bash as he dismounted .

 

Spoke to him, I went to the races briefly to watch the 'chase.  Were  you tearing your hair out?  I asked him.

Yes, he said glumly...he needs blinkers.  Who, the horse? or the rider? I wanted to know.  He's a friend of mine, a lovely, courteous young man...but, oh dear.

Edited August 13, 2022 by Freda

[Newmarket]

Another couple of nags fell in last race at Matamata today. TAB should run odds on how many horses fall a week. 
5 plus would be a good option, Per runners, NZ has the worst rate of falling runners. Still, nobody cares

[curious]

41 minutes ago, Newmarket said:

Another couple of nags fell in last race at Matamata today. TAB should run odds on how many horses fall a week. 
5 plus would be a good option, Per runners, NZ has the worst rate of falling runners. Still, nobody cares

Haven't bothered to look but I assume that in typical transparent fashion NZTR will have withheld or removed the replay?

[nomates]

44 minutes ago, Newmarket said:

Another couple of nags fell in last race at Matamata today. TAB should run odds on how many horses fall a week. 
5 plus would be a good option, Per runners, NZ has the worst rate of falling runners. Still, nobody cares

That would be a bit friggen macabre .

Many of us care , just not the ones who can change things .

[curious]

The stewards report is a bit bizarre isn't it? No explanation of the fall. Slipped, clipped heels? No veterinary explanation other than some sore teeth from the fall. Looks like they didn't even talk to Tayla before issuing the report. But they do that in an hour and can't conclude an inquiry into a race 6 weeks ago?

[mikeynz]

.

Edited September 21, 2022 by mikeynz