Kumara Gone

[Chief Stipe]

Must be Oatham - he was Chair at Kumara?

[Freda]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Clue?  Wasn't she the Chair at Reefton?

Ostensibly.

[Special Agent]

So am I right in saying the Stipe in charge at Omoto okayed the meeting to continue after a fall, then the Stipe in charge at Reefton put a stop to racing after a minor loss of footing with no interference by the eventual winner with a plate off?

Edited January 8, 2023 by Special Agent

[Joe Bloggs]

No confidence motion coming perhaps?......then again.....not.

[Special Agent]

A rider or trainer should be regularly reviewing their performances.  Do you think officialdom ever does the same?

[Joe Bloggs]

Nah SA, nah........accountability and all that,....nah........self respect even, god forbid!

[Reefton]

2 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said:

No confidence motion coming perhaps?......then again.....not.

would it make a difference?

[Reefton]

2 hours ago, Special Agent said:

So am I right in saying the Stipe in charge at Omoto okayed the meeting to continue after a fall, then the Stipe in charge at Reefton put a stop to racing after a minor loss of footing with no interference by the eventual winner with a plate off?

he was pretty keen to abandon but the riders made it clear they were happy to continue

[The Centaur]

1 hour ago, Reefton said:

he was pretty keen to abandon but the riders made it clear they were happy to continue

Thats the problem. Individual officials are dead scared that if they Ok races to continue and there is an accident the blame will fall on them. Recently I think Awapuni the officials gave away their responsibility and placed it on the riders. Deep down I don't think officials directly care that much about jockey safety as much as their own neck. For them easiest solution just cancel the meeting.

[Joe Bloggs]

14 minutes ago, Reefton said:

would it make a difference?

Sadly no in all probability.

[nomates]

1 hour ago, Special Agent said:

A rider or trainer should be regularly reviewing their performances

Well if they are you would think you would see regular improvement , when we continually see the desperate state of our riders i would assume very few do .

[billy connolly]

3 hours ago, Special Agent said:

the Stipe in charge at Reefton put a stop to racing after a minor loss of footing with no interference by the eventual winner with a plate off?

The horse in question lost its footing because the John Wayne on top tried to force a run on the outside of the leader approaching the home turn but was denied that run because the jockey directly to his outside put him back where he belonged causing a momentary falter but not a slip, if it had have slipped it wouldn't have got up and won the race IMO.

The John Wayne I'm referring to has been doing this for 25 years and getting away with it and he got away with it again in Race 1 at Reefton !

Edited January 9, 2023 by billy connolly

[Special Agent]

There were no grounds to put the meeting off and not many would continue if every jockey error of judgment was reason to pull pin.

[Reefton]

I don't think there is any doubt when a horse genuinely slips.  If the can identify a skid/slip mark no problem with abandonment.  I said to Oatham(when he asked after the inspection) 'if it is safety do must do what you must do'.  That was before I saw the replay that Billy Connelly refers to.  Terry definitely pushed out then got bumped back in and a split second after the bump the horse lost its footing.  Despite five minutes searching Oatham and co found no skid or slip mark (I know - I was with them).  We are awaiting advice from the RIB re compensation.  If, as I expect, they ignore us I will tell BOAY the full story but just now I need to hold fire.

He wanted Greymouth off the night before and Kumara all day on the Friday but the Clubs resisted.  What happened with us was a convenient loss of footing and he pounced.

[Reefton]

7 hours ago, The Centaur said:

Thats the problem. Individual officials are dead scared that if they Ok races to continue and there is an accident the blame will fall on them. Recently I think Awapuni the officials gave away their responsibility and placed it on the riders. Deep down I don't think officials directly care that much about jockey safety as much as their own neck. For them easiest solution just cancel the meeting.

To be fair I would hate to have some kid in Burwood Hospital with a broken neck after my meeting so as I say where there is genuine evidence of slippery ground I am happy to abandon.  In this case however there was no evidence and indeed there was a very good reason, not related to the track, for the loss of balance.  You expect people sitting in judgment to be objective but in this case the abandonment decision was in place waiting for an excuse.  Sort of having the answer prepared then waiting for the question.

[curious]

The other issue here I think is that they've completely reversed themselves. They determined the track to be safe. Sent out horses and riders as crash test dummies, then decided it wasn't safe based on no evidence that anyone has reported or seen. Essentially saying, we got it wrong. We've put horses and riders at unnecessary risk when it appears they actually got it right and didn't. Not a good look.

Edited January 9, 2023 by curious

[Freda]

There are many issues unfolding from these events, IMO.   

The biggest [ apart from safety of horse and rider which has to be always paramount ]  is that the product must be attractive to punters to ensure the prosperity - survival, in fact - of the industry.

Clearly, it isn't.

So, those in charge of protecting the integrity of the racing have been shown to be incompetent, and, given the agendas outlined in many posts above, possibly corrupt, by making decisions based, not on safety, but on some other notion. 

The matter of upholding safe riding tactics - i.e their job - has been ignored, which, in the Reefton incident, could have caused a catastrophic chain reaction, if the field had gone over the top of Moseley if his horse had actually fallen, rather than being bounced off the outside horse.   And the bigger issue for mine, is that riding infractions are not, now, policed adequately, anywhere, which leads to more disinterest in betting locally.

The likelihood of a meeting not proceeding is creating an even bigger drop off in interest among those few, intrepid remaining punters.  No wonder they bet elsewhere.

The point made by Reefton, that he wouldn't want to see anyone disabled as a result of an accident, I know is shared by everyone.  But the tragic fatalities incurred in the industry have not, in my memory , been caused by track conditions.

Interference or clipping heels seem to be the common denominator here, which in many cases, is a direct result of NOT policing riding infringements, as well as the prevailing practice of not allowing horses to run along at a decent gallop.

The rule about 'changing ground' in a race is, or was,  ' your own length and another clear length ' before shifting ground.

How often does that get ignored now with no consequences whatsoever..?

[curious]

Reefton. I assume that a horse or preferably horses galloped on the track on race morning as per the prep guidelines. Did you see that? Who rode the gallop/s and what did they report? That must have been a key factor in the club/RIB confirming the track condition and allowing the meeting to commence?

[Reefton]

21 minutes ago, curious said:

Reefton. I assume that a horse or preferably horses galloped on the track on race morning as per the prep guidelines. Did you see that? Who rode the gallop/s and what did they report? That must have been a key factor in the club/RIB confirming the track condition and allowing the meeting to commence?

There were at least 20 horses stabled there for the meet and some were running at Kumara not Reefton.   I am sure the protocol was followed but I was not there to witness it.  Michael Pitman had his horses there and was adamant the track was 110% safe

[curious]

19 minutes ago, Reefton said:

There were at least 20 horses stabled there for the meet and some were running at Kumara not Reefton.   I am sure the protocol was followed but I was not there to witness it.  Michael Pitman had his horses there and was adamant the track was 110% safe

Yes but that's just hearsay from one trainer. Someone in the club must have arranged that and know and be able to confirm that the policy was followed and what the outcome of that was surely?

"A Club must arrange for a track gallop on the course on the morning of the race meeting to reconfirm the declared track rating"

Edited January 9, 2023 by curious

[nomates]

1 hour ago, Freda said:

The rule about 'changing ground' in a race is, or was,  ' your own length and another clear length ' before shifting ground.

 

To know whether your horse is sufficiently clear you have to look , the biggest problem is most don't .

[Joe Bloggs]

2 hours ago, Freda said:

There are many issues unfolding from these events, IMO.   

The biggest [ apart from safety of horse and rider which has to be always paramount ]  is that the product must be attractive to punters to ensure the prosperity - survival, in fact - of the industry.

Clearly, it isn't.

So, those in charge of protecting the integrity of the racing have been shown to be incompetent, and, given the agendas outlined in many posts above, possibly corrupt, by making decisions based, not on safety, but on some other notion. 

The matter of upholding safe riding tactics - i.e their job - has been ignored, which, in the Reefton incident, could have caused a catastrophic chain reaction, if the field had gone over the top of Moseley if his horse had actually fallen, rather than being bounced off the outside horse.   And the bigger issue for mine, is that riding infractions are not, now, policed adequately, anywhere, which leads to more disinterest in betting locally.

The likelihood of a meeting not proceeding is creating an even bigger drop off in interest among those few, intrepid remaining punters.  No wonder they bet elsewhere.

The point made by Reefton, that he wouldn't want to see anyone disabled as a result of an accident, I know is shared by everyone.  But the tragic fatalities incurred in the industry have not, in my memory , been caused by track conditions.

Interference or clipping heels seem to be the common denominator here, which in many cases, is a direct result of NOT policing riding infringements, as well as the prevailing practice of not allowing horses to run along at a decent gallop.

The rule about 'changing ground' in a race is, or was,  ' your own length and another clear length ' before shifting ground.

How often does that get ignored now with no consequences whatsoever..?

When I got my drivers licence back in the early 70's the rule was a car length for every 10km hour, 80km = 8 car lengths, FFS, nowadays the fools are tailgating at 100km only 2-3 behind you, and it happens all the time, what intellect is that? actually, it's very hard to miss heels when your horse is pulling like a mad thing, but some jocks nowadays get far too close to the horse in front, why they do that is just stupid, so is slowing the pace, that's as dangerous as pushing out, good jocks can manoeuvre the horse on their outside as to obtain a run in many cases, Roy Higgins was a master at it, so too John Harris and Roger Laing, they were exceptional, but we all had great teachers back then, while Moseley is nearly of that era  he is as guilty as most these days, careless, many are reckless.

The stipe in this instance needs censuring, too many of us of the older vintage can see there was an ulterior motive at work here, and it stinks, I hope Reefton gets his preferred outcome, otherwise, lets all see it for what it is.

[aquaman]

1 hour ago, Joe Bloggs said:

When I got my drivers licence back in the early 70's the rule was a car length for every 10km hour, 80km = 8 car lengths, FFS, nowadays the fools are tailgating at 100km only 2-3 behind you, and it happens all the time, what intellect is that? actually, it's very hard to miss heels when your horse is pulling like a mad thing, but some jocks nowadays get far too close to the horse in front, why they do that is just stupid, so is slowing the pace, that's as dangerous as pushing out, good jocks can manoeuvre the horse on their outside as to obtain a run in many cases, Roy Higgins was a master at it, so too John Harris and Roger Laing, they were exceptional, but we all had great teachers back then, while Moseley is nearly of that era  he is as guilty as most these days, careless, many are reckless.

The stipe in this instance needs censuring, too many of us of the older vintage can see there was an ulterior motive at work here, and it stinks, I hope Reefton gets his preferred outcome, otherwise, lets all see it for what it is.

When I got my license back in the 60's it was one car length for every 10mph.

[curious]

1 hour ago, aquaman said:

When I got my license back in the 60's it was one car length for every 10mph.

Pretty silly rule anyway. Current 2-4 sec rule much more sensible depending vehicle and driving conditions. Horses racing a bit of a different matter I'd say.

[nomates]

1 minute ago, curious said:

Pretty silly rule anyway. Current 2-4 sec rule much more sensible depending vehicle and driving conditions. Horses racing a bit of a different matter I'd say.

Haha , most of them don't know what pace they're going now , adding a 2-4 sec rule or some such would just blow their brains up . Could you imagine the carnage .