Brodie Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 Watched on Trackside today the last race at Addington. Now I am no vet and have never driven a harness horse in a race but to my eye a horse ran the whole race and appeared to be very sore going by its pacing action throughout! The horse was Mogul, a warrior of a horse who I would say by its pacing action has run its last race! Not my horse so, do not pay the training bills, but personally believe the driver should have pulled the horse up rather than let it run in pain for the whole 1950metres. Surely the driver could feel that there was an issue with the horse today? Watch the replay of race and I would be surprised if anyone thinks the horse ran on sound legs today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 Maybe a alternative handicap🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 45 minutes ago, Brodie said: Watched on Trackside today the last race at Addington. Now I am no vet and have never driven a harness horse in a race but to my eye a horse ran the whole race and appeared to be very sore going by its pacing action throughout! The horse was Mogul, a warrior of a horse who I would say by its pacing action has run its last race! Not my horse so, do not pay the training bills, but personally believe the driver should have pulled the horse up rather than let it run in pain for the whole 1950metres. Surely the driver could feel that there was an issue with the horse today? Watch the replay of race and I would be surprised if anyone thinks the horse ran on sound legs today? Totally agree. More than just you and i who watched it and couldn't understand why the driver didn't have the sense to pull it up. Wilson house normally a kind driver,and i'm sure is in person as well,but that drive just didn't meet an acceptable standard of horsemanship in my opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taupiri Wonder Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 Mogul was in last weeks Gavelhouse Auction & SOLD for $3000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taku Umanga Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 5 hours ago, Taupiri Wonder said: Mogul was in last weeks Gavelhouse Auction & SOLD for $3000. Was purchased by Bob22, who bought 4 lots that remained in the House stable under existing ownership, so assuming were "buy-backs" and not genuine sales. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 8, 2023 Author Share Posted April 8, 2023 1 hour ago, Taku Umanga said: Was purchased by Bob22, who bought 4 lots that remained in the House stable under existing ownership, so assuming were "buy-backs" and not genuine sales. Why wouldnt they just say not met reserve? Anyway, if someone has bought it for $3k I would be betting that they could’ve spent it more wisely! That horse was broken down unfortunately. Time for retirement for the very tough Mogul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taku Umanga Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 34 minutes ago, Brodie said: Why wouldnt they just say not met reserve? Anyway, if someone has bought it for $3k I would be betting that they could’ve spent it more wisely! That horse was broken down unfortunately. Time for retirement for the very tough Mogul. Mogul was unreserved and the others had all met reserve - there were genuine bidders having a crack at all four from memory 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 9, 2023 Author Share Posted April 9, 2023 3 hours ago, Taku Umanga said: Mogul was unreserved and the others had all met reserve - there were genuine bidders having a crack at all four from memory So they must’ve known the horse was sore by the look of it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleface adios Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 3 hours ago, Taku Umanga said: Mogul was unreserved and the others had all met reserve - there were genuine bidders having a crack at all four from memory so was it a buy back? has the same owners as before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 Stewards Report MOGUL - hampered shortly after the start and had to be steadied. Paced roughly from the 1500m. Weakened leaving the final bend and was pulled up shortly after the finish line. Transported from the track by the Horse Ambulance. A post-race veterinary examination revealed a suspected fracture to the right front sesamoid bone. Stood down pending a veterinary clearance prior to resuming. Stewards opened and adjourned an investigation into the reason driver W House did not retire the gelding from the race through the middle stages when the horse became uneven in its gait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 9, 2023 Author Share Posted April 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Stewards Report MOGUL - hampered shortly after the start and had to be steadied. Paced roughly from the 1500m. Weakened leaving the final bend and was pulled up shortly after the finish line. Transported from the track by the Horse Ambulance. A post-race veterinary examination revealed a suspected fracture to the right front sesamoid bone. Stood down pending a veterinary clearance prior to resuming. Stewards opened and adjourned an investigation into the reason driver W House did not retire the gelding from the race through the middle stages when the horse became uneven in its gait. Says it all really doesnt it? The horse was sore from the time the barrier pulled away you could tell in its action! Dont want to castigate the young driver at all, but seriously how could you not tell that the horse was not hurting badly? Not sure what investigation is required really, and what it is going to do? I believe the driver’s mother is a vet, and I think the driver is studying to become a vet maybe wrong so, it is really a but odd that the horse was required to run the full distance when people on TV could see the horse was blatantly in pain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spatchcock Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Brodie said: I believe the driver’s mother is a vet I didn't realise Michelle was a vet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 9, 2023 Author Share Posted April 9, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Spatchcock said: I didn't realise Michelle was a vet. Stand corrected, but we both probably know the relationship, and the point being made, was going off an interview Do you have an opinion on the situation? Edited April 9, 2023 by Brodie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paleface adios Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 2 hours ago, Spatchcock said: I didn't realise Michelle was a vet. brodster meant his new mrs is a vet . is this right spatcock? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 On 4/8/2023 at 5:08 PM, Brodie said: Surely the driver could feel that there was an issue with the horse today? Watch the replay of race and I would be surprised if anyone thinks the horse ran on sound legs today? Just checked it out and you're on the money there mate. what a sad situation. horse barely pacing as they came up the home straight on both occasions. amazing the driver didn't react more. (and retire) But at least he refused to chase the horse through last quarter and make Mogul more uncomfortable, and let him drift out of the contest. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spatchcock Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Brodie said: Stand corrected, but we both probably know the relationship, and the point being made, was going off an interview Do you have an opinion on the situation? Horse had a broken leg and should have been pulled earlier. I am sure there will be a period of reflection and education with the junior driver in question. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 What do you expect from a Michael House runner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) Well the decision was made that there was not sufficient proof to say House did anything wrong. Reading the decision it seems the whole episode was a bit keystone cops like. No doubt everyone was trying to do the right thing by the horse,but it sounds like things only went from bad to worse after he pulled up. For example ,the regular driver of the horse ambulance was away and while the vet said the horse was "all good' to be transported by the horse ambulance off the track,she seems to have meant after she had sedated it and was surprised that they loaded the horse on the horse ambulance before she had a chance to sedate Mogul. Mogul then got very upset in the horse ambulance and ended up apparently getting cast.Injuring himself even further. The vet(dr corser) was upset she had not been allowed to direct the treatment. . It was because of all that stuff up that it left the possibility of the horse having severely aggravated the leg injury in the float and that it may not have been as serious as that initially.. Those hearing the case decided. The vet diagnosed a much less serious injury on the horse pulling up-Although that seems a bit of a stretch to interpret it that way given their decision said the vet said initial diagnosis was that mogul had damage to a weight bearing structure..... They said (point 2) they accepted the horse had "gear issues" and believed that is why mogul looked lame on the track for the first 1000m of him pacing so badly................ They found because proper procedures weren't followed prior to loading the horse on the horse ambulance, they believed it most likely the injury it came out of the horse ambulance with, was far worse than it was when loaded on . So it seems they thought it was most likely a gear issue that caused it to pace so badly prior to the 500m,which is the point it at which w house tried to pull it up. They said the burden of proof for the incompetent driving charge should be greater than the balance of probabilities and decided the charge wasn't proved..... House did make a point that there have been other examples of horses that have gone just as rough andno action is taken and the horses continue to race that way.He used the example of mucho macho man. Well hes right there. That horse continues to run around the southland tracks,when seemingly looking very lame. It was vet inspected again today but passed the vet check. I guess at the end of the day ,because some horses are so tough and willing,they keep going when they have injuries that should be stopping them. Personally i think it was an error of judgment for those hearing the case to infer that if a horse becomes very lame from the point the driver starts easing it up,that because it wasn't as lame prior to that point,its injury was not already as serious.I think the opposite is the most likely in normal circumstances. Mogul was a warrior who was so competitive he ran despite the pain and it was only when he was asked to stop that he foccused on his pain. all very sad for all involved and of course most of all mogul. Edited June 17, 2023 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted June 17, 2023 Author Share Posted June 17, 2023 2 hours ago, the galah said: Well the decision was made that there was not sufficient proof to say House did anything wrong. Reading the decision it seems the whole episode was a bit keystone cops like. No doubt everyone was trying to do the right thing by the horse,but it sounds like things only went from bad to worse after he pulled up. For example ,the regular driver of the horse ambulance was away and while the vet said the horse was "all good' to be transported by the horse ambulance off the track,she seems to have meant after she had sedated it and was surprised that they loaded the horse on the horse ambulance before she had a chance to sedate Mogul. Mogul then got very upset in the horse ambulance and ended up apparently getting cast.Injuring himself even further. The vet(dr corser) was upset she had not been allowed to direct the treatment. . It was because of all that stuff up that it left the possibility of the horse having severely aggravated the leg injury in the float and that it may not have been as serious as that initially.. Those hearing the case decided. The vet diagnosed a much less serious injury on the horse pulling up-Although that seems a bit of a stretch to interpret it that way given their decision said the vet said initial diagnosis was that mogul had damage to a weight bearing structure..... They said (point 2) they accepted the horse had "gear issues" and believed that is why mogul looked lame on the track for the first 1000m of him pacing so badly................ They found because proper procedures weren't followed prior to loading the horse on the horse ambulance, they believed it most likely the injury it came out of the horse ambulance with, was far worse than it was when loaded on . So it seems they thought it was most likely a gear issue that caused it to pace so badly prior to the 500m,which is the point it at which w house tried to pull it up. They said the burden of proof for the incompetent driving charge should be greater than the balance of probabilities and decided the charge wasn't proved..... House did make a point that there have been other examples of horses that have gone just as rough andno action is taken and the horses continue to race that way.He used the example of mucho macho man. Well hes right there. That horse continues to run around the southland tracks,when seemingly looking very lame. It was vet inspected again today but passed the vet check. I guess at the end of the day ,because some horses are so tough and willing,they keep going when they have injuries that should be stopping them. Personally i think it was an error of judgment for those hearing the case to infer that if a horse becomes very lame from the point the driver starts easing it up,that because it wasn't as lame prior to that point,its injury was not already as serious.I think the opposite is the most likely in normal circumstances. Mogul was a warrior who was so competitive he ran despite the pain and it was only when he was asked to stop that he foccused on his pain. all very sad for all involved and of course most of all mogul. What a farce! The horse should’ve been pulled up early on. The horse suffered unnecessarily anyone with commonsense can see that! Harness racing is in serious trouble when the panel couldn’t see anything wrong with what happened on the track! Incompetents! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 30 minutes ago, Brodie said: What a farce! The horse should’ve been pulled up early on. The horse suffered unnecessarily anyone with commonsense can see that! Harness racing is in serious trouble when the panel couldn’t see anything wrong with what happened on the track! Incompetents! Does set an interesting precedent. The whip rules make a big deal of the importance of public perception,but in this case it didn't seem to be a factor. What was the standard of proof they applied? Those who made the decision said it wasn't balance of probabilities like other cases but unlike other decisions you read,it did not clarify that aspect. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Agent Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 Double standards. What sort of people are on these panels? I thought because there is renumeration it should mean professionalism. All we want is consistency. Is the horse okay? Once they go into that horse ambulance ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted June 18, 2023 Author Share Posted June 18, 2023 22 minutes ago, Special Agent said: Double standards. What sort of people are on these panels? I thought because there is renumeration it should mean professionalism. All we want is consistency. Is the horse okay? Once they go into that horse ambulance ... Personally can not see it ever racing again!!! What were these “GEAR ISSUES”????????? Just a load of BS seriously!! What did the original vet think the issues was with the horse?? Just an absolute load of crock, so much for INTEGRITY! The horse was stuffed forever and deserves a retirement somewhere!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Brodie said: Personally can not see it ever racing again!!! What were these “GEAR ISSUES”????????? Just a load of BS seriously!! What did the original vet think the issues was with the horse?? Just an absolute load of crock, so much for INTEGRITY! The horse was stuffed forever and deserves a retirement somewhere!!! the gear issues were supposedly to do with the spreaders annoying the horse leading to a possible injury. I think at the end of the day,it was not following proper procedures transporting mogul off the track,which lead to a lack of clarity around the exact nature and extent of his injuries when he was running.They didn't sedate,stabalise or support bandage his injury,like they are supposed to before transport. As a result of those failures,which W House had no control over,the horse went off while being transported from the track which lead to even more injuries and possibly increasing the extent of its original injuries. However while the decision sort of mentioned that,they seemed to feel the need to make findings which supported the W House case,based on how he said the horse had travelled in the running. So they did feel they had enough evidence to make findings in houses's favour,despite all the aforementioned. Thats why some people will remain unconvinced the findings clarified anything. Edited June 18, 2023 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted June 18, 2023 Author Share Posted June 18, 2023 2 hours ago, the galah said: the gear issues were supposedly to do with the spreaders annoying the horse leading to a possible injury. I think at the end of the day,it was not following proper procedures transporting mogul off the track,which lead to a lack of clarity around the exact nature and extent of his injuries when he was running.They didn't sedate,stabalise or support bandage his injury,like they are supposed to before transport. As a result of those failures,which W House had no control over,the horse went off while being transported from the track which lead to even more injuries and possibly increasing the extent of its original injuries. However while the decision sort of mentioned that,they seemed to feel the need to make findings which supported the W House case,based on how he said the horse had travelled in the running. So they did feel they had enough evidence to make findings in houses's favour,despite all the aforementioned. Thats why some people will remain unconvinced the findings clarified anything. With respect it is BS! We need as many horsemen as we can keep in the industry! Michael House stable has done a great job for harness over the years and hope to retain it! However, if I was the owner of Mogul or another horse that was pacing so badly for the whole of that race, geez I would be so pissed if my driver had continued to race the horse until into the straight. The horse was obviously in trouble early on and to not pull it up far earlier is a total error on the part of the driver. I would be pretty sure in hindsight Wilson House knows he made a mistake. The bigger mistake and total BS is the panel giving us this crap about a gear issue etc. if it was a gear issue then why was there an issue with the spreaders? Should the horse not have been pulled up anyway? Integrity has been thrown out the window once again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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