Gammalite

Thanks for that Joe. she's the kiwi Winx (only better IMO , powering to 2 mile glory) Hope she settles and gets to strut her stuff in France then. geEEez that is a long way to go... Sounds very sad to me selling a centre like Levin. I spent a lot of time around stables at TAKANINI in my younger days and Jillings and Verner and Vance were winning all sort of things. I came back a few years later for a trip and the whole Training facility was gone for houses😪. Now I hear they want to sell off bits of Ellerslie and possibly Alexandra Park even. When will this sad madness stop? when nothing is left.?

It's a bright and sunny morning in Queensland . 21 degrees. seems a bit more frosty in NZ on the threads. How about enjoy some of the Amazing NZ performances at Birmingham Commonwealth Games? . kiwis doing very well. Where is my 'Fav of all time' Verry Elleegant these days.? are you sending another like her over soon?

Would you end up at that Lone Star restaurant at the winning post then ? instead of it being at the start point. ? Sounds good to me Brodster. Your shout of the steak while we watch the winner right alongside ! sounds great !! Can you arrange please ?

Not quite sure what communism has to do with anything. But I'm telling you YET AGAIN , the Best horse usually does Win the Nz Cup !!! The Honour role is tremendous. My 'Communist' self would of preferred that instead of False Step winning 3 Cups, beating Caduceus on 2 occasions that he got one as well. And ELSU instead of 2 x second to Just An Excuse , had one each. 2 champs just missed out ?. perhaps the debateable 'best' horse didn't win. False Step and Just An Excuse came off HANDICAPS to win their 2nd Cups , as did Il Vicolo and Flashing Red in more recent times , so they probably ALL deserved it ,as in having to work around the field. ......but is Not my communist preference. (actually that goes in any sport) RIP Karl Marx

Don't think so , it's a random draw in the Interdom Grand Final usually , for the 12 or so highest point scorers from the heats still. Yeah that was some race. ! Delightful Lady one of the best I ever seen. her handicap was tough Hands Down was tough too. I believe she had a little gallop as well which didn't help. Camelot lucky too to win his NZ Cup? with Gammalite way back on 30m . fricken #&^%#*#@ handicaps !!!!. I'm convinced he wins off the front and the VERY LUCKY Camelot doesn't get the spoils !!! .....lol......

I was trying to re-assure you Mikey , that it has been in general Won by the Best horse on the Day. for hundred years. We did find about 5 champions who only just missed out. Well yes , true.... I love horses having 'turns' in general. And what happened to supporting the Underdog ? A LOT of hours and effort go into preparing those runners too . There are some great people involved. and very nice horses. They (people with other Cup horses and Punters) probably won't mind if Aussie 'Majestic Cruiser' doesn't turn up . Why not invite back 'TURN IT UP' and 'Spirit of StLouis' and 'Alta Orlando' instead?. Owned in NZ and all . there's plenty of kiwi owned lovely horses around the place. Even my beloved QLDer Blacks A Fake and also I'm TheMightyQuinn both dominated the Interdominion Grand Final for an 8 year stretch from 2006 - 2013. 7 wins between them !!! amazing. but that's just too much.!! Really it would of been better for 8 DIFFERENT WINNERS over that time frame of 8 years instead of just 3 Lucky owners IMO. I know !!! bring back the Interdominion Handicap !!!

Didn't get to see Dillon Dean, but I had a great experience for a year or so helping out a trainer Brian Pretious at Takanini , with Dillon Dale who was recovering from bad legs that side-lined him for about 2 years after Gary Hillier had won a few young horse races with him. Jogged him on his own away from the other Birdie foals Double Birdie and Birdie Twice that were racing at that time. (BIRDIE's earlier foals). Was thrilled to bits when Don Dwyer came along and nearly stole the NZ Cup with Dillon Dale ,that sadly was marred by a big Fall. In the FFA as you say Dillon Dale powered to victory ! Gammalite was in that race and a battling 6th. Gammalite also battling 6th in that Nz Cup behind Camelot, coming off a 30m Handicap !!!! who the f..k puts handicaps in these big races to stop the best from Winning !!!!!???? lol...... should be banned lol. (don't tell Mikey)

Well with a lot of people saying the Great Race , and AKLD Cup and Rowe Cup and Dominion. should all be won by the Best Horse every year. WHy ??????? shouldn't every horse be a chance if they start in a race ? Isn't that the whole idea of having Ratings ? and Class ratings. and having a Handicapper. Not to mention the fine TRADITION of these great races. I think the general public and punters would enjoy the racing more than just a procession behind 2 horses ?? , and wouldn't think anything less of the race if Copy That sulked and stayed home (or Self Assured, or Bolt or Sundee ) from those BIG 4 races. Who enjoyed the 8 horse Rowe Cup? who enjoyed Self Assured Akld Cup ? I'm a harness racing SUPPORTER full on , and didn't bet and didn't even watch those 2 races recently . (swear that's true) They were just a Self Assured and Sundees Son benefit. Yeah I know .... TonyH spoiled the 'Dunn Sundee' Rowe Cup party with 'Bolt' , but I wouldn't of backed him to do that lol... well done to SA and BOLT on those 2 great wins.

All fair comment Mikey . sorry forgot to write ( humor Michael) near the weed comment for your benefit so you didn't get confused again lol..... The distance of races is a MAJOR factor IMO. how can the trotters keep up with Sundees Son trotting 3.56 for the 2 miles in the Dominion Non-handicap last year. ? Tony has Bolt for Brilliance trotting a sensational 4.00 minutes this year . What about the rest? They can't trot that quick. Why take them on off the front and flatten your horse. ? I wouldn't ....I'd head to Australia like Majestic Man did. Better if Sundee (after winning Rowes and Dominions) off 20m and Bolt (after winning Rowe) off 10m this year. It is VERY HARD to Train a Horse to COMPETE with them (Bolt and Sundee) Off LEVEL marks. I saw a pole on another site and 'BRING BACK the HANDICAPS' to have more Competitive racing Won the vote. ! Booyah !! the majority can't be wrong shirly...... good smart kiwis.

Well I did find some North Islanders that went close. (but didn't win the Nz Cup) and as you said earlier Delightful Lady (one of the 11 NZ Trotting Hall of Famers) used to perform with distinction. and had the North Island crowds entertained in the early 80's. In the 90's Mark Purdon started training and his family still winning with Chokin and Christpher Vance, Mark Hanover in the Interdominion. Maybe it all went Quiet when Mark shifted to South Island ? Decline in progress ? by the time ELSU came along for the Butcher family in 2000's ?

Nearly all the above New Zealand Champion Pacers were last century in previous post , so a quick check of the 'Other Big Race' to win the INTERDOMINION Grand Final, to see IF the NZ Winners of that Time honoured Title have Won an NZ Cup as well this Century. As they are the Stars of the Sport. YULESTAR 2001 Interdom Champ, and Won the Nz Cup off 10m in 2000. ELSU 2005 Interdom Champ, and twice 2nd in the NZ Cup to Just an Excuse (who was off 10m for 2nd Cup) SMOLDA 2016 Inter Champ , nose 2nd in NZ cup after galloping and losing near 50m at the start. LAZARUS 2017 Interdom Champ and twice Winner of the NZ Cup off the front. TIGER TARA 2018 Interdom Champ , twice 2nd and a 3rd in the NZ Cup off the front. ULTIMATE SNIPER 2019 Interdom Champ , don't think contested a Nz Cup. so only 2 Interdominion Champion's from NZ this century have managed to Win the NZ Cup as well. !! And one was more than 20 years ago in YULESTAR. LAZARUS takes the cake as this Centuries SuperChamp then!!!!!! (with Elsu, Smolda and Tiger Tara all narrowly defeated in the NZ Cup , but NOT beaten by the Handicapper in it)

The Cup has a way of seeing the Best take a victory. Just did a little homework to see how the best and most popular and fastest horses have done in the big race. One expert has LIST of The Best 10 Harness Horses to of raced in Nz (and here's their Nz Cup result.) JOHNNY GLOBE won his cup off 48 yards behind handicap LORDSHIP 2 cup wins First one off the front , 2nd one off 42 yards. HIGHLAND FLING 2 cup wins off 12 yards then a mammoth 60 yards CADUCEUS *** 3rd off 12 yards, 2nd off 30 yards , 3rd off 48 yards . The Champ beaten by the Handicapper !! CARDIGAN BAY won his Cup off 54 yards behind. ROBIN DUNDEE *** ran three times 2nd in the Cup (behind Lordship and Cardigan Bay and Garry Dillon) was twice off the front mark and off 24 yards in the third attempt. BLOSSOM LADY Won the Cup off the front mark 1992 CHRISTIAN CULLEN Won the Cup off the front 1998 YOUNG QUINN *** twice 3rd in the NZ cup off the front mark behind Arapaho and Robalan. LAZARUS 2 wins off the front in FFA conditions So there is 10 of the greatest kiwis ever , and interesting to note that Two of the 3 horses to only Place in the New Zealand Cup (Young Quinn and Robin Dundee) had 2 goes at winning it off the front. Caduceus missed in All 5 goes at the NZ Cup, bit of a turn-up for the books ? (Caduceus, Quinny and Robin Dundee each all won an Interdominion in style though)

No not really . I'm just expressing an opinion on a public forum. I'm not saying these things have to happen. therefore advocating it to anyone. It's just an opinion..... ok I understand that LEVEL PLAYING FIELD to you means LEVEL starting marks. that makes sense. I'll retract the comment of 'level playing field 'in that case and REWORD it to , Handicaps are designed to give an even chance of winning, to as many runners as possible ?? how does that sit ? whether it be at the gallops or at the trots. p.s Handicappers do a sterling Job !! I applied for the QLD handicapper job but another more recently retired Trainer got the position unfortunately. perhaps I had too much weed lol........

Great question !! when Delightful Lady Won her 2 Auckland Cups , the 2 years before Gammalite won his , it was a 2700m mobile event. Therefore Delightful Lady was very unfairly Handicapped on 10m in the Nz Cup 3200m stand (IMO) won by the warhorse 'Hands Down' , having not won at that 'distance / stand start in a feature race previously. The mighty mare still went very close, heading off Hands Down as they turned for home, for Mike Stormont, but a brilliant rally by Peter Jones and Hands Down saw him come back on the inside to victory. !!! what a race !!

ANSWER 4. I don't smoke weed. You making Stuff up again to assassinate character ? ANSWER 4. Didn't say you were wrong. I Said you were right actually , that the Best 'Elite' horse as you call it ,wins the Cup usually. Has done for hundred years plus. ANSWER 1. myself ONLY said 'CUP class horses' should be in the Nz Cup . YOU used the word 'average' . Not me . you making stuff up again ?. ANSWER 2. Once again I am saying they should be on 10m for winning Previous Nz Cups (or Rowe Cups or Dominion Hcap or AKLD Cups . TALK About Repetitive lol. This gives a Level Playing Field to ALL runners . (has worked for a Century) Very easy to understand. Doesn't really matter who I think should in the NZ Cup? . you just throwing sand . I think Sundees Son should be in the Nz Cup !!!!!!!!! there you go , go chew on that one ! lol. ANSWER 3. I always make Sense mate. You're the ONLY Person here accusing me with this unnecessary personal attack. You make sense to me . We're having a debate . you should be a politician . ANSWER 4. Majestic Cruiser should be Off the Front IN MY OPINION (am I allowed one anymore???) he hasn't won a 3200m stand. Copy That, Self Assured have = 10m . not rocket science. I'm gunna get a waffle , you're making me hungry . (humor mate humor) go and have a beer and cheer up.

Good news for you Michael is....... The very Elite have and Do Win the NZ Cup. It's an amazing list of winners !!. Barely a champion missing. Young Quinn with the 2 placings was one surprise miss. Whatever the start conditions introduced , the Big Players play well.. Hey why not go like Formula One and make it totally boring and give the best rated and fastest the Pole draw? and work outward from there. Go Lewis Hamilton lol...You might get the 'Elite' Winner you desire badly then ... Might get an Allstars whole front-line at Addington lol ??? (humor matey )

Why ? did they burn it down again. ? Here's one of the Greatest Photo's Ever Taken in the World, with Cardigan Bay leading up the Nz FFA field (the very race we were plugging earlier by co-incidence lol.... ) as the last race of the day. The crowd all moved in an orderly manner to the front (foreground) to watch the race while they waited for the fire brigade to arrive !!!!!!!!!! again you kiwis are amazing Cardy Won of course !!!

And the horse everyone loved Robalan won the Nz Cup and the NZ FFA in the 70's, both the great races without hopples too. Who's the 2nd horse here Ranga? (Nz FFA) think that is Quinny running 3rd. Look at that crowd !! you kiwis are amazing.

Think so? . Ranga would be great with that one and might have spotted another FFAer somewhere. Final Decision ran 2nd in the NZ Cup Free-legged before Superior Chance came along.

Wow Mikey , talk about go for the dagger. Hard to find a more passionate SUPPORTER of harness racing on this site than myself. I Love the NZ horses doing well. I love the Aussies going to Nz and doing well. Interdominions are great, Your 3 horses are all owned in Australia , so there's another reason I hope you are right and they don't start. The Cup would get to Stay in New Zealand on a Mantlepiece !!! (trying for some humor there mate) Great to see you are desparate for Self Assured to be in the Cup again. !! I think Mark is the bee's knees , and drove against him in his very first win at Ruakaka all those years ago. A great man indeed. What is wrong with me ? Having an opinion different to you makes it "Clearly there is something Wrong with Me" ?? Oh Because I think a hundred year + tradition of handicapping the Nz Cup, AKLD Cup, Rowe Cup and Dominion Handicap should continue ???? maybe it's the vaccination ?? get Brodie here to tell me please....... will I recover??

Spot on Doomed !! lets get some prestige into the NZ FFA as well.!! And make it a Huge Carnival in November. What a great race in can be / is ...... Here's your girl Armalight with Bob Negus after that big Cup win , blowing away the FFA field . (Gammalite was 4th 7 lengths away 😩 lol) Look at that crowd on Show Day !! great times !! Bonnie's Chance 2nd again for Richard Brosnan , but may of won both races the following year I think.

That's my view too, I think Copy That and Self Assured in NZ Cup (and Sundee and Bolt in the Dominion ) would all start still if on 10m behind if the handicapper gave them that penalty. If fit and well. Pretty good trainers and drivers they all have , and I would think could handle the situation ?? lol........ Meaning they have to come around the field gives all the field some sort of hope. How can that be a bad thing ? I hope Michael is right that Copy That and Self Assured sulk and don't start if handicapped. They have both won a Nz Cup each , and would be great for all the other Cup runners !!!! . esp Spankem .... Gammalite got invited over to the Nz Cup once and was promptly handed a rather un-fair 10m handicap for his trouble ? , but didn't grizzle lol...... Found it a bit hard though , and ran 5th about 12 lengths behind tearaway winner Armalight. Ya would think I would hate Handicaps !!!!! lol....

No worries mate. I love handicaps so it blurs my vision . I love every runner having a chance. I love that you enjoy the great race too. sorry I couldn't get your point but these things happen. All the best. I think the Nz Cup should be just for Cup class horses. The Group 1's in Aus are hard to get into. Wish it was the same for you there. If I had a good trotter (or Pacer) I certainly wouldn't Flatten it chasing Sundees Son and Self Assured over 2 miles . I'd go to Aus . as Majestic Man ultimately did . and he got 2nd in the last Interdominion Trot bless him. Flat as a pancake taking on Sundee last year in the Dominion . Didn't even bother with the Rowe Cup this year recently ??? that's A horse as good as him too. very sad really what is happening. That's the point I was trying to say anyway. You can have a Good horse like him (majestic Man) and still be No chance of winning the Rowe or Dominion ... why bother starting and wrecking your horse?? . Lazarus in his 2nd year at NZ Cup, Self Assured and Sundees Son All are going PHENOMINAL TIMES off the front marks. The rivals*** are NO CHANCE . rivals*** except (Copy That and Bolt For Brilliance obviously)

I always found being behind the others (10m or 20m handicap) an advantage to be honest. You could see what everyone was doing and nobody was gunna swing sideways and sit in your gig. (they used to pack em tight off the front and there wasn't much room)

Well these races for be the Open class only . Rowe Cup was Very unfortunately a Very small field this year. Why take on Sundees Son and Bolt for Brilliance off the front ??? EXAMPLE : 'Doff your Cap' connections gave up and just sent him off overseas after his very last start in NZ. (the dominion last year at Addington) which absolutely 'Fried ' a few horses with Sundee trotting 3.56 2 miles. (should of been off 20m) Bolt for Brilliance after winning the 2 mile Rowe Cup should be on 10m now. just makes sense to me. Doff your Cap now doing better with a fairer handicap in Aus. I Feel sorry for the connections losing their horse really 😪. Mark Purdon DIDN"T even Bother starting Oscar Bonevena , even after he Won a Group 1 trot just days before the Dominion beating Bolt For Brilliance ??##??. ALARM BELLS should be ringing saying there is something wrong with the Dominion handicapping when a Group 1 winner gives it the Flick ? ?? terrible state of affairs. Oscar won a support race off 20m instead , on Dominion Day. SELF ASSURED with his 2020 Nz Cup win and 2022 Auckland Cup wins over 2 mile stands should be on 20m this year IMO.