Brodie Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Harness racing in the North Island is stuffed literally! The 60k Mile Race at Cambridge tomorrow night has only 7 starters lining up!!! If you can only attract 7 starters racing for 60k there are major issues occurring in the North Island! Bearing in mind there are 4 horses from the almighty AllStars stable lining up means there are only 3 Nort Island horses lining up! Obviously if the 4 AllStars horses weren’t lining up the race wouldn’t be even happening! Or is it that the almighty AllStars horses have scared all the other ones off and can not be bothered running for 5th at best???? Yes I think this is the reason and it is going to continue to happen continually when the bigger money is up!!! Yes I have brought this up at least once before but if you don’t think that this domination is going to permanently stuff harness racing in NZ, you have got your head in the sand!! Owners and trainers have had an absolute gutsful of the current situation and I can tell you now, that feature racing in NZ is in serious trouble over the next couple of years!! Dont bother saying that it is up to every other trainer to lift their game to compete!! Totally irrelevant as this domination is going to continue until there are not enough owners left to make racing worthwhile! , 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kane21 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 All, your posts indicate you hate harness racing and trying to get it stopped. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagship uberalles Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, Kane21 said: All, your posts indicate you hate harness racing and trying to get it stopped. No he just wants harness racing to be competitive again with large fields racing for good money, but it will be a procession tomorrow lead trail and your horse boom up the passing Lane... trotters race will be the more interesting race tomorrow. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boobybec Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 27 minutes ago, Kane21 said: All, your posts indicate you hate harness racing and trying to get it stopped. The Big Red Machine has spoken.... 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 30 minutes ago, Kane21 said: All, your posts indicate you hate harness racing and trying to get it stopped. Ah, no. Why don't you respond with an argument against his? To say, Brodie hates harness racing is ridiculous. Whether he is right or not is open to debate so why don't you give your view. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 43 minutes ago, Kane21 said: All, your posts indicate you hate harness racing and trying to get it stopped. that's crap only one stable needs to be stopped and team driving is race fixing 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Mind you, must be the smallest fields ever at Nelson too 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Kidd Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 The question is often asked if the dominance of the All Stars in just about every feature race in NZ is good for the sport. Personally, I believe it's not. I don't begrudge the All Stars their phenomenal success. They are without doubt the best at what they do. I don't subscribe to theories doing the rounds that their success is at least partly related to dubious "additives" etc. They have owners with deep pockets. They know exactly what are the right horses to buy. Their training methods achieve a level of fitness and stamina that is greater than the overwhelming majority. Both Mark and Natalie are world class drivers. They invariably have multiple runners in the feature races that gifts them the luxury of formulating "race plans" that one way or another will not only virtually guarantee they win the race, but usually dominate the placings also. Most of the lesser trainers have no realistic hope of competing with them. If a rare gem shows up from another stable along the way, the All Stars will ensure the bottom of that horse is found sooner rather than later. Even a Franco Ice, The Bru Czar type of horse would have a very short shelf life now. When that premature end occurs, what stable has an uninterrupted return back to the status quo? Would have loved to have seen The Orange Agent race for several more seasons and become the next Bonnies Chance / Armalight but longevity is almost unheard of for any contender that goes up against the all conquering blue and silver stars. Talk of other trainers needing to lift their game is fantasy and bereft of merit. Even the likes of Cran Dalgety and Robert Dunn etc can only fight over the scraps. The only feature races the blue army don't have a complete mortgage on are trotting races like the Rowe Cup and Dominion so if I had money to invest in the game, that's where I'd look or not at all. Must admit, I would much rather watch one open class group 1 race than a dozen 2 and 3 year old group 1 races with huge stakes. In any sport, it's the elite events that the competitors aspire to. If you know you've got virtually no realistic hope of winning those elite races, it's inevitable that rival owners and trainers will eventually give up the ghost. As an owner, I've never been fortunate enough to win a group race. We don't race any horses at this time. That is not related to the All Stars dominance. We've won many lesser races and they were all huge thrills. Can only imagine how it feels to win a group 1. When i see the same names coming up in the ownership of most of our elite race winners, I can't help but wonder if that is just another one for the same old same old. Everything is relative but if the same people were winning lotto every week the other lotto ticket buyers would eventually flag it away. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OLDWHITEMAN Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 26 minutes ago, Newmarket said: Mind you, must be the smallest fields ever at Nelson too Shocking fields... slow horses galore. Unfortunately, I cannot see a future for harness racing in Nelson or Marlborough, with the exception of the Kaikōura Cup meeting. I think both Nelson and Marlborough are earmarked for closure by Winston's report. He is more interested in keeping his cronies in the thoroughbred industry happy, harness racing is off the radar. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globederby12 Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 31 minutes ago, Joe Kidd said: As an owner, I've never been fortunate enough to win a group race. We don't race any horses at this time. We would welcome you aboard our syndicates (Seafield and Griffins) racing out of the Williamson Barn, Joe. Square gaiters are the place to be, and have tasted group success, and have some lovely youngsters waiting to race .Couple that with our other stock presently racing its exciting times. And the AS barn dont worry us, despite Brodies protestations and sweeping generalizations. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, globederby12 said: We would welcome you aboard our syndicates (Seafield and Griffins) racing out of the Williamson Barn, Joe. Square gaiters are the place to be, and have tasted group success, and have some lovely youngsters waiting to race .Couple that with our other stock presently racing its exciting times. And the AS barn dont worry us, despite Brodies protestations and sweeping generalizations. Globe, name a sweeping generalisation???? Brodie, says it the way it actually is! If you don’t like it then it is your prerogative, but at the end of the day “always on the money”,! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Kane21 said: All, your posts indicate you hate harness racing and trying to get it stopped. Kane, you are way off with that statement! This is a forum to discuss racing and specifically harness on here! You are clearly somehow involved with the AllStars operation and congratulations with that! All I am saying and everyone that I associate with Racing wise are all well aware of the current predicament that harness racing is in with the sheer domination of your favourite stable. I will guarantee that harness is going to go further into the doldrums as far as attracting new owners and trainers into the industry and breeding no.s are going to drop. You obviously have no problem with your stable plundering all the big money races with your team, but I can tell you now that it is hugely detrimental to the continuance of harness racing in not only Canterbury but also the North Island. FFS a $60k race with only 7 horses and one stable having over half the field in it! The race will be a yawn feast as per normal! Please explain to us all how this domination can be positive for the industry? There are going to be more and more of our better horses sold overseas as they see no future in racing horses here for any profit whatsoever!!!!!!!! Edited January 10, 2019 by Brodie 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Brodie said: Harness racing in the North Island is stuffed literally! The 60k Mile Race at Cambridge tomorrow night has only 7 starters lining up!!! If you can only attract 7 starters racing for 60k there are major issues occurring in the North Island! Bearing in mind there are 4 horses from the almighty AllStars stable lining up means there are only 3 Nort Island horses lining up! Obviously if the 4 AllStars horses weren’t lining up the race wouldn’t be even happening! Or is it that the almighty AllStars horses have scared all the other ones off and can not be bothered running for 5th at best???? Yes I think this is the reason and it is going to continue to happen continually when the bigger money is up!!! Yes I have brought this up at least once before but if you don’t think that this domination is going to permanently stuff harness racing in NZ, you have got your head in the sand!! Owners and trainers have had an absolute gutsful of the current situation and I can tell you now, that feature racing in NZ is in serious trouble over the next couple of years!! Dont bother saying that it is up to every other trainer to lift their game to compete!! Totally irrelevant as this domination is going to continue until there are not enough owners left to make racing worthwhile! , Nelson fields are just as bad. What are you going to do? Ban the Dunns as well! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, Brodie said: Kane, you are way off with that statement! This is a forum to discuss racing and specifically harness on here! You are clearly somehow involved with the AllStars operation and congratulations with that! All I am saying and everyone that I associate with Racing wise are all well aware of the current predicament that harness racing is in with the sheer domination of your favourite stable. I will guarantee that harness is going to go further into the doldrums as far as attracting new owners and trainers into the industry and breeding no.s are going to drop. You obviously have no problem with your stable plundering all the big money races with your team, but I can tell you now that it is hugely detrimental to the continuance of harness racing in not only Canterbury but also the North Island. FFS a $60k race with only 7 horses and one stable having over half the field in it! The race will be a yawn feast as per normal! Please explain to us all how this domination can be positive for the industry? There are going to be more and more of our better horses sold overseas as they see no future in racing horses here for any profit whatsoever!!!!!!!! You are as usual not on the money. The race seems to attract an average of 8 runners through out its history so not sure what you are on about. Previous years numbers have been just as bad and the All Stars were not dominating back then. 1993 Tower Of Strength 6 starters 1995 Ginger Man 7 starters 1997 Sam Malone 7 starters 1999 Chistian Cullen 7 starters 2000 The Tough Nut 7 starters 2001 Holmes D G 7 starters 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 9 minutes ago, Nowornever said: Nelson fields are just as bad. What are you going to do? Ban the Dunns as well! What a dumb thing to say! If the Dunn stab,e hadn’t taken up a team then the meetings may well have been in jeapardy! The Thing is that there are buggerall horses trained in The Marlborough district that are competitive with the Canterbury horses! The costs to take horses to Nelson From anywhere is now pretty prohibitive with most horses not being able to cover the increased costs, and the owners nowadays are now looking at things more in a business manner! The reality is that the costs to race a horse do not make it a profit making venture and only the semi wealthy are now wanting to have horses in work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Wow, cant believe how many threads turn into a All Stars bagging thread? Come on, without the AS stables, horse numbers would be worse. Look around, doesnt matter if its harness or gallops, they are in the shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 2 minutes ago, Nowornever said: You are as usual not on the money. The race seems to attract an average of 8 runners through out its history so not sure what you are on about. Previous years numbers have been just as bad and the All Stars were not dominating back then. 1993 Tower Of Strength 6 starters 1995 Ginger Man 7 starters 1997 Sam Malone 7 starters 1999 Chistian Cullen 7 starters 2000 The Tough Nut 7 starters 2001 Holmes D G 7 starters Cobblers, always on the money! what were the numbers over the past 16 years??????? If you are saying that they have always only been getting 7 starters every year, then the race should be canned as b,atant wast of time for the club and punter!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Newmarket said: Wow, cant believe how many threads turn into a All Stars bagging thread? Come on, without the AS stables, horse numbers would be worse. Look around, doesnt matter if its harness or gallops, they are in the shit. Newmarket you are wrong with that statement! The horse no.s are far worse due to the AllStars domination and if you can not see that then your head is in the sand! Stake money needs to be spread around more or the industry is dust in a few years, which the TAB wouldn’t be worried about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 Just now, Brodie said: Cobblers, always on the money! what were the numbers over the past 16 years??????? If you are saying that they have always only been getting 7 starters every year, then the race should be canned as b,atant wast of time for the club and punter!!! Brodie, Please explain how harness in nz would flourish, if the All Star stable closed up shop tomorrow, would love to know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 Just now, Newmarket said: Brodie, Please explain how harness in nz would flourish, if the All Star stable closed up shop tomorrow, would love to know. I never said that harness racing would flourish at all! What ai said is that the domination by the one stable is doing major damage to an industry that is already struggling! It is not rocket science to realise that if all the big money is going to the same owners of one stable and only small crumbs to all the other stables, then owners are going to drop out, and new ones not being enticed into the game! Personally doesn’t affect me financially and nothing really does fortunately, however I am well aware of the costs of racing a horse and I can tell you now, there would be extremely small no. Of owners that get within cooee of breaking even racing horses! The stakes in general are less than what they were 20 years ago and the costs of ownership have escalated hugely. Why on earth would anyone bother to breed a horse, feed it, have it prepared for the yearling sales etc, pay commission on the sale and be lucky to even break even?????? I can tell you now that there are far easier ways of making money than taking that risk! You can admire the brilliance of the AllStars stable professionalism and success but the fact remains that they are seriously driving people,out of ownership and racing, and the fact that only 3 horses outside of the AllStars are prepared to lineup for $60k is a fact that can not be denied !!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 8 minutes ago, Brodie said: Cobblers, always on the money! what were the numbers over the past 16 years??????? If you are saying that they have always only been getting 7 starters every year, then the race should be canned as b,atant wast of time for the club and punter!!! I was just giving you some facts debunking your theory the All Stars have ruined the race and made the numbers so low. The facts are this race has always had lower than usual numbers and I would guess the time of year has something to do with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted January 10, 2019 Author Share Posted January 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, Nowornever said: I was just giving you some facts debunking your theory the All Stars have ruined the race and made the numbers so low. The facts are this race has always had lower than usual numbers and I would guess the time of year has something to do with it. Nowornever, your last year you quoted was 17 odd years ago???? What were the no.s over the last few years? if there is normally 7 horses racing for good stakes the. The race needs to be canned or date changed as it is not profitable for anyone but the winner! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, Brodie said: I never said that harness racing would flourish at all! What ai said is that the domination by the one stable is doing major damage to an industry that is already struggling! It is not rocket science to realise that if all the big money is going to the same owners of one stable and only small crumbs to all the other stables, then owners are going to drop out, and new ones not being enticed into the game! Personally doesn’t affect me financially and nothing really does fortunately, however I am well aware of the costs of racing a horse and I can tell you now, there would be extremely small no. Of owners that get within cooee of breaking even racing horses! The stakes in general are less than what they were 20 years ago and the costs of ownership have escalated hugely. Why on earth would anyone bother to breed a horse, feed it, have it prepared for the yearling sales etc, pay commission on the sale and be lucky to even break even?????? I can tell you now that there are far easier ways of making money than taking that risk! You can admire the brilliance of the AllStars stable professionalism and success but the fact remains that they are seriously driving people,out of ownership and racing, and the fact that only 3 horses outside of the AllStars are prepared to lineup for $60k is a fact that can not be denied !!!!! Go back years when Barry Purdon dominated each year, and several others had stints being top trainer, Wolfenden etc. How come we had plenty of horses, owners etc? Yes, it is expensive owning a horse, but all the drug and race fixing allegations would put people off racing far more that a stable that dominates, and wins with about a third of its race starts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 1 minute ago, Brodie said: Nowornever, your last year you quoted was 17 odd years ago???? What were the no.s over the last few years? if there is normally 7 horses racing for good stakes the. The race needs to be canned or date changed as it is not profitable for anyone but the winner! 2018 7 starters 2017 7 starters 2016 9 starters 2015 7 starters 2014 5 starters (No All stars runners) 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newmarket Posted January 10, 2019 Share Posted January 10, 2019 I bet you $20k all of those horses had 4 legs! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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