the galah Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) I've just been reading an article about Jamie Keast and how he has handed in his licence after becoming upset over apparently being charged with hitting the horse ascalabus too hard when winning on cup day.. The article made interesting reading in regard to the way the case was handled by authorities and Keast's reaction there to. As to the charge of hitting his horse too hard and what drove authorities to pursue this matter. Having watched the race there is no doubt there can be a perception that Keast"s whip action can lead to a view that he hits his horses harder with the whip than most others. But what is too hard and is the perception reality? Keasr has pointed out many times that if his horses were to be examined after the race authorities would see comparative to other drivers he does not leave marks on his horses which warrant being singled out. The reason he's continually pointed this out is because their is truth in what he says,and could be confirmed by those he has driven for and by simply having authorities taking the time to have a look at his horse/horses after the race. So keast is in my view a victim of a false perception. Having said that having the attitude that perception should be ignored by authorities is unrealistic. That's the world we live in. Now personally I can't understand how it is fair to charge Keast with such an offence if they have not given him warning specifically relating to this point. I don't know whether this has happened,but there is a big difference between warning someone about their whip action and warning someone about giving the perception they have hit their horse too hard. Keast subsequent comment about one of the riu staff seemed unnecessary. He can make a case that the treatment he has received is unfair without such comments,but I guess his frustration is understandable. Keast clearly is unhappy and it is unfortunate that he talks about no longer renewing his licence as that would be a waste of his talents which would not be able to be used by those he supports. So he really is mistakenly punishing the wrong ones But ultimately that's up to him as to how he feels. What will be interesting is the reaction of other licence holders to this case. So many have been quick to condemn action taken by authorities in the race fixing saga,that is despite not having full knowledge of the evidence involved. Will they be just as vocal here as this could easily be argued to be a case of unfair treatment. Or are those vocal over the treatment involved in the race fixing sage only interested in defending high profile licenceholders. It will be interesting to see how that side of things plays out here. Edited December 19, 2019 by the galah 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) the article leaves a few dots to join Edited December 19, 2019 by Rangatira Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 ????????????????? join the dots for us 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 30 minutes ago, the galah said: I've just been reading an article about Jamie Keast Where is the article? 31 minutes ago, the galah said: perception That is what the whip rule is all about. Ask Kirstin Barclay. It is a well intended rule that is starting to leave messes behind. Maybe the Box Seat will discuss it lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, hunterthepunter said: ????????????????? join the dots for us i can't that is why i said that but 1) would it be standard practice for neil grimstone (riu) aka "pig" to arrive the next day to take the licence away 2) what was Oscar Tyler's subsequent behavior that week that left the Keast’s with no option but to tell him he was no longer welcome and bought out of Lovey Dovey Moment by Darren’s mother Nicky Sampson 3) what was the reason for Lovey Dovey Moment being scratched out of the interdoms 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, Rangatira said: Oscar Tyler Who is he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 53 minutes ago, the galah said: he has handed in his licence after becoming upset 4 minutes ago, Rangatira said: would it be standard practice for neil grimstone (riu) aka "pig" to arrive the next day to take the licence away Handed in or taken away? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said: Who is he? former part owner of lovey dovey moment and backer of lovey dovey moment into ascalabus and maker of 5k as a result Edited December 19, 2019 by Rangatira 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 both jk quotes “Later that night we were having a barbeque with some of our owners, when one looked it up and said I’d been given five days, which took in the first night of the Inters. “I was that bloody angry about the whole thing, I texted the stipes and said don’t worry, I’ll be handing in my licence. jk quotes "“The next thing I know, or the next day, (the RIU’s) Neil Grimstone turns up at my place to take my licence away." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagship uberalles Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rangatira said: former part owner of lovey dovey moment and backer of lovey dovey moment into ascalabus and making 5k Is he part of lavros lodge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, Flagship uberalles said: Is he part of lavros lodge? i have not the foggiest idea the brodster might know him 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted December 19, 2019 Author Share Posted December 19, 2019 28 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said: Where is the article? That is what the whip rule is all about. Ask Kirstin Barclay. It is a well intended rule that is starting to leave messes behind. Maybe the Box Seat will discuss it lol. The article came via an email promoting some new publication,the wife told me about it but then deleted it after I read it,so I can't help you there. I'm not sure what the lovey dovey moment dispute has to do with the whip charge,if any at all. I doubt its advisable for a trainer to comment to the media on an owner dispute. Takes part of the focus off the whip charge when that is where the focus should be from keasts perspective.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 29 minutes ago, Flagship uberalles said: Is he part of lavros lodge? yep he is 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 racing needs good guys like Jamie 2 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flagship uberalles Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, hunterthepunter said: racing needs good guys like Jamie I think they are trying to weed out the decent ones that work hard and play by the rules 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 17 minutes ago, the galah said: The article came via an email In trash? Go save it as it sounds like a good read ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 54 minutes ago, Rangatira said: former part owner of lovey dovey moment and backer of lovey dovey moment into ascalabus and maker of 5k as a result 50 minutes ago, Rangatira said: both jk quotes “Later that night we were having a barbeque with some of our owners, when one looked it up and said I’d been given five days, which took in the first night of the Inters. “I was that bloody angry about the whole thing, I texted the stipes and said don’t worry, I’ll be handing in my licence. jk quotes "“The next thing I know, or the next day, (the RIU’s) Neil Grimstone turns up at my place to take my licence away." How are this former owner and whip punishment related? Pathetic display by the stipe Grimstone if true. They should know better not to react like that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blossom lady Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 25 minutes ago, hunterthepunter said: racing needs good guys like Jamie How many positive swabs has Jamie had . Not forgetting the ones his mrs got as well. also we shouldn't mention anything about blue magic! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) Was in the Harness Xpress. I was going to post all,about it hours ago but did not because everyone knows my opinion on the blatantly stupid whip rule already. I appreciate it is the perceived force of the whip rather than the no. But that has been my point previously that a no. Should not be in the rule!!!!!! Jamie Keast has always been known as being fairly vigorous with his whip action but that is not to say he is inflicting anymore hurt on a horse than some of the other drivers. Harness can not afford to lose any trainers or drivers but we will have a drop off in participation from all participants in the coming years, from punters, owners, trainers, drivers and junior drivers. There is not a lot being offered to participants at the moment, punters are getting screwed, owners are getting a hiding, trainers are struggling big time and the JCA are hammering the young junior drivers. RIU should be renamed as it is not appropriate. Jamie Keast, you will do better away from racing anyway. Edited December 19, 2019 by Brodie 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted December 19, 2019 Author Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Flagship uberalles said: I think they are trying to weed out the decent ones that work hard and play by the rules In this case I think authorities are pursuing an agenda that they think will help public perception. Nothing wrong with that, but problems arise if they don't sell the changes needed t to licence holders. And you have to treat everyone the same. You just can't go and pick on someone simply because they are an easy target. They should have guidelines for laying such a charge and surely part of those should be a vets report relating to whether the marks,if any, left on the horse are out of the ordinary and detrimental to the horse. Keast makes a very valid point. Because this is a first of its type,it probably is a learning experience for those involved. But this is someones reputation that appears to be unfairly tarnished. Edited December 19, 2019 by the galah 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 This is not a rule which should pit people against each other as it is in the vested interests of the industry to get it right. It needs to be a team effort - stipes working with drivers to get make it work. Warnings and advice to be heeded and punishment only when absolutely necessary but it seems with the amount of fines and suspensions handed out it is anything but. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 12 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said: This is not a rule which should pit people against each other as it is in the vested interests of the industry to get it right. It needs to be a team effort - stipes working with drivers to get make it work. Warnings and advice to be heeded and punishment only when absolutely necessary but it seems with the amount of fines and suspensions handed out it is anything but. Interestingly this all happened many years ago in Brisbane. Many horses were checked by stripes after each race and fines and suspension common for horses with welts on the rump. The races were full of big strong men then who were big whip drivers. Virtually forced out and replaced with skinny kids as the landscape changed dramatically. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 8 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said: How are this former owner and whip punishment related? probably aren't these are complimentary copies of the harness express in the hopes you take up a subscription i was half expecting a footnote saying the full story would be in the subscriber only edition next week 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taku Umanga Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 (edited) Jamie has trained and driven horses for me in the past. Not one was ever returned to the stabling area showing signs of excessive whip use, yet I've had horses blistered by the whip work of other drivers - drivers that have never been engaged by me since. Edited December 19, 2019 by Taku Umanga 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongOwner Posted December 21, 2019 Share Posted December 21, 2019 I thought HRNZ issued licences - not RIU employees . What right has RIU got to confiscate I piece of paper which was invalid for a short period of time . Aren’t HRNZ the administrators who look after the paper work ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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