Yankiwi Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: LOL. ? That made me laugh out loud. I was being serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Brodie said: Chief, the thing that I have realised since we have been in Home Detention is that I realise that we had more woolly sheep in Nz than gumans but I didn’t realise that we also had so many two legged human sheep without the wool!!!! Too many people are prepared to just go with the flow and not question anything and I will not apologise for not being a socialist and being led by a control freak! Spoke to a bloke yesterday that made a delivery to us and he thought Ardern was great! I asked why he thought that and he said he had never had such a pay rise before as he was obviously talking about the minimum pay rate that was happening! Apart from that he was at a loss as to what of benefit this government had done for NZ and he did admit that the ones around her were not the best. We have supposedly a Mr Twyford who is the Minister for Economic Development who is going to be in charge of pulling NZ out of this mess that we are in financially, and yet we haven’t seen or heard from him as to what his plan was! Seems like our Prime Minister can do no wrong in the eyes of the flock of sheep that think she is great, so god we do need some serious help! If stating the truth and not being a sheep is being grumpy in some people’s eyes, I will take that any day over being one of the flock of sheep! Instead of thinking of the majority as sheep, you should just accept that the majority believed the government mostly made the right decisions based on all the data they had. Sure you can point to australia as being just as effective with less disruption to the economy,although the economic experts say not that much difference. And yes you can point to the figures of infections to death rates and the strain being different in some countries to others. But given the impact it has had in so many countries our government was always going to err on the side of caution. Have you followed some of the devastating reports coming out of so many countries.The likes of russia,,brazil,etc . The list is so long. What about the latest figures to come out of italy that said they had ,excluding the virus,something like 11,000 more deaths in the same 5 week period compared to the previous 5 year average. In other words way more deaths related to the virus than reported. So many countries under reporting. I know we have better health care,but why would any government take the risks you suggested we should have. So people aren't sheep,they just view the health of others as important enough to agree and trust the governments actions. Instead of directing your frustration at the nz government, shouldn't the real frustration be directed at the chinese government who stopped all domestic travel in and out of Wuhan and Hubei province to stop the spread of the virus, yet for about 10 days thereafter let international travel from that area continue. Edited May 7, 2020 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangatira Posted May 7, 2020 Author Share Posted May 7, 2020 team effort Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 36 minutes ago, the galah said: Instead of thinking of the majority as sheep, you should just accept that the majority believed the government mostly made the right decisions based on all the data they had. Did they make the decisions based on the right data and data modelling? I don't think so. Do a Google Search on Wigram Capital Investments, Rodney Jones, Motu Nz and Dr John McDermott. Adern referred to their analysis frequently when justifying the lockdown. It was they who stated 80,000 deaths. Try googling Rodney Jones and George Soros. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 42 minutes ago, the galah said: What about the latest figures to come out of italy that said they had ,excluding the virus,something like 11,000 more deaths in the same 5 week period compared to the previous 5 year average. In other words way more deaths related to the virus than reported. So many countries under reporting. The reality in NZ is that we have had 20 people die at a direct ecomomic cost of $3 BILLION each. God knows what the indirect cost will be. Sadly for those 20 they were in the exit lounge anyway. It is clear that this virus claims the most vulnerable I.e. those with pre-existing serious health conditions. This virus is NOT eradicated and the vulnerable unless protected will still die. All the lockdown has done is bought the vulnerable more time to die from what is already killing them. This time has been bought at a large expense which will create more vulnerable and cause more deaths than Covid-19. If I owned a motel or hotel business I wouldn't get Dr Bloomfield to manage it. In the best of times he can only manage 85% occupancy in his hospital beds when there is unsatisfied demand. During Covid-19 lockdown this % dropped to 50%. I don't call that good management. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: The reality in NZ is that we have had 20 people die at a direct ecomomic cost of $3 BILLION each. God knows what the indirect cost will be. Sadly for those 20 they were in the exit lounge anyway. What a load of bollocks. A disgrace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 52 minutes ago, the galah said: Instead of directing your frustration at the nz government, shouldn't the real frustration be directed at the chinese government who stopped all domestic travel in and out of Wuhan and Hubei province to stop the spread of the virus, yet for about 10 days thereafter let international travel from that area continue. This comment I really object to. Obviously you have bought into the Trump/Pompeo "blame our piss pore management on someone else" electioneering line. You blame the Chinese Government regarding their slowness in imposing an International travel lockdown but overlook the slackness displayed by Adern and co to quickly manage our border movements. China may have let flights out but other countries let them fly in. Research is showing now that deaths of people infected with Covid-19 occurred in Europe and even the USA well before anyone knew there was a Covid-19. Yet you are quick to blame the Chinese. Why not blame the Italians for telling us about Covid-19 or the French? The horse had bolted well before the Chinese knew about it. Which isn't surprising when a lot of infections are aysmptomatc, mild or similar to the flu. The last thing we need is China bashing. We poke the Panda at our peril. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 10 minutes ago, mardigras said: What a load of bollocks. A disgrace. Yes I'm glad you agree. What a huge cost to the country. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said: Yes I'm glad you agree. What a huge cost to the country. Well clearly you know I don't. Your figure of $60B is a made up number. You've lost any sense of ability to understand what has gone on. Your National affiliation has clouded any possible judgement. I don't support labour at all, but sadly, your assessment of things is so far off the mark, it s comical. It's akin to you now turning around and supporting RITA and their promos by saying they've made $20m net profit off them in the last year. Just bollocks and baseless, like your claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 25 minutes ago, mardigras said: Well clearly you know I don't. Your figure of $60B is a made up number. You've lost any sense of ability to understand what has gone on. Your National affiliation has clouded any possible judgement. I don't support labour at all, but sadly, your assessment of things is so far off the mark, it s comical. Firstly I'm not a National supporter. I might be if they crept over the midline back towards the right. However in saying that I believe that they understand business better than the current mob. Actually I may as well declare completely where I stand politically since you are jumping to conclusions. I stood for National in the 1984 election. In 1987 I voted for Roger Douglas. The party most aligned to my current thinking is ACT. I'm currently not active in any political party. Now as for my "made up number of $60m" it has more empirical validity than the projected 80,000 deaths predicted by Wigram and Motu and used by Adern to justify her actions. The reality is the Lockdown decision and more importantly how it was implemented has cost the country billions now and in the future. Robertson's pre-Budget speech is scary in that they have indicated they will interfere in the markets and choose winners. Governments have been notoriously bad at that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 NZ according to Wordometer has undertaken 168,000 Covid-19 tests. These are PCR nasal swab tests. They only test for active cases. There has been ZERO Antibody tests done in NZ. These tests are done on blood samples and test if you have HAD Covid-19 i.e. you don't have the active stage of the virus. On the 22nd April Medsafe NZ BANNED the importation of Antibody test kits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 16 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Now as for my "made up number of $60m" it has more empirical validity than the projected 80,000 deaths predicted by Wigram and Motu and used by Adern to justify her actions. The reality is the Lockdown decision and more importantly how it was implemented has cost the country billions now and in the future. Robertson's pre-Budget speech is scary in that they have indicated they will interfere in the markets and choose winners. Governments have been notoriously bad at that. Says you. Your $60b - I give it on a scale of 0 to 10, a zero. It is baseless 100%. Show me where it comes from. You are just making things up. It's rubbish. Show us the analysis of what the impacts would have been if the lockdown didn't happen. I can't wait to see those numbers. And then ask yourself why the impact to places such as Sweden/Finland/Norway has been the same economically - according to the general consensus of economic impact on these countries. Must be just a fluke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: NZ according to Wordometer has undertaken 168,000 Covid-19 tests. These are PCR nasal swab tests. They only test for active cases. There has been ZERO Antibody tests done in NZ. These tests are done on blood samples and test if you have HAD Covid-19 i.e. you don't have the active stage of the virus. On the 22nd April Medsafe NZ BANNED the importation of Antibody test kits. Who cares - I'm not even interested in the virus. I'm interested in the economic impacts. The lockdown won't have any. I couldn't care if the government had done 3 million tests of x and 2 million of y. It wouldn't change the economic impacts that NZ is facing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 Chief, you are wasting your time arguing with the sheep that think that Ardern has done everything perfectly. The truth is that Ardern, Bloomfield and the media scared the living daylights out of people that are very easily led to believe. Yes Ardern did do some things correctly, but the government has done a helluva lot poorly, including acting illegally in locking us up and having the NZ Police charging people when they had absolutely no right to do so. These charges have to be dropped ASAP! The clown that they listened to in regards to the modelling as to how many would die should never be listened to again. what an absolute dick! In Oz they were told up to 150,000 could die and yet they have had under 100 and they were oldies that were vulnerable with issues. The reality is that there will be heaps of people now with mental health issues that didn’t have any before and will include suicides unfortunately. Ardern is not a leader, she is a trained speaker Socialist with extremely dangerous ideology. She has stated that this was an opportunity to close the gap of inequality in NZ! That is the sign of a very dangerous person in a very powerful position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 The ones that think that the government has done a great job and are also still scared to leave their house will tend to be people that have not got a lot to lose. A business owner that is losing everything will not be thinking the same as the sheep that follow her every word. Under level 2 you have to still have the social distancing of 2 metres and yet kids are allowed to go to school with no social distancing??? if it was such a killer virus why are kids allowed at school with no distancing???? I think some people might change their minds when their employer comes to them and gives them the don’t come Monday and they join the Jobseeker line!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, Brodie said: Chief, you are wasting your time arguing with the sheep that think that Ardern has done everything perfectly. The truth is that Ardern, Bloomfield and the media scared the living daylights out of people that are very easily led to believe. Yes Ardern did do some things correctly, but the government has done a helluva lot poorly, including acting illegally in locking us up and having the NZ Police charging people when they had absolutely no right to do so. These charges have to be dropped ASAP! The clown that they listened to in regards to the modelling as to how many would die should never be listened to again. what an absolute dick! In Oz they were told up to 150,000 could die and yet they have had under 100 and they were oldies that were vulnerable with issues. The reality is that there will be heaps of people now with mental health issues that didn’t have any before and will include suicides unfortunately. Ardern is not a leader, she is a trained speaker Socialist with extremely dangerous ideology. She has stated that this was an opportunity to close the gap of inequality in NZ! That is the sign of a very dangerous person in a very powerful position. Who thinks that. I couldn't give a toss what she does. You're the sheep - you actually believe the lockdown has any economic impact in NZ. Talk about gullible. I prefer to ignore most politics - and as a result I am intolerant of media bullshit and propaganda. Unlike you - who has actually swallowed the bullshit about the economy. Chill out and have a good time. You may not get a break like this for a while. If you are finding things tough, talk to someone. If your business isn't going to be viable, reskill or diversify. But don't blame a stupid lockdown. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: This comment I really object to. Obviously you have bought into the Trump/Pompeo "blame our piss pore management on someone else" electioneering line. You blame the Chinese Government regarding their slowness in imposing an International travel lockdown but overlook the slackness displayed by Adern and co to quickly manage our border movements. China may have let flights out but other countries let them fly in. Research is showing now that deaths of people infected with Covid-19 occurred in Europe and even the USA well before anyone knew there was a Covid-19. Yet you are quick to blame the Chinese. Why not blame the Italians for telling us about Covid-19 or the French? The horse had bolted well before the Chinese knew about it. Which isn't surprising when a lot of infections are aysmptomatc, mild or similar to the flu. The last thing we need is China bashing. We poke the Panda at our peril. But what i stated is fact in relation to the chinese banning domestic travel from the virus epicentre ,while allowing international travel from the epicentre. It happened. By the way i don't buy into the Trump miss management at all. It certainly is what the Trump hating media,including nz media want to potray,and they pounced on a couple of his stupid off the cuff comments. The reality is Trump is not viewed by americans as the media portrays him. The next election there will again prove that.. Some of his media conferences about the virus may have not been his best work,but his new press secretary certainly is impressive so far and looks like she will sell the trump administrations virus response very effectively. As to the china bashing. I'm with Winston in that by putting all your eggs in one basket you set yourself up to be manipulated . Thats not china's fault. They have been masters at working there way to the top of the world with the usa.. That's also what Trump says. Whether you agree with the way they do things in China or not,you can't help but admire china. But you don't have to think that our countries voice on whats right or wrong should be silenced simply because it may impact on us economically. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 1 hour ago, mardigras said: Who thinks that. I couldn't give a toss what she does. You're the sheep - you actually believe the lockdown has any economic impact in NZ. Talk about gullible. I prefer to ignore most politics - and as a result I am intolerant of media bullshit and propaganda. Unlike you - who has actually swallowed the bullshit about the economy. Chill out and have a good time. You may not get a break like this for a while. If you are finding things tough, talk to someone. If your business isn't going to be viable, reskill or diversify. But don't blame a stupid lockdown. You are kidding aren’t you? You don’t think the lockdown has had an affect on the economy???? Think I would be changing your name if I was you or some might get ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 8 hours ago, mardigras said: I'm interested in the economic impacts. The lockdown won't have any. So am i reading you right , you think the lockdown will have no impact on NZ Economy Greg 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 8 hours ago, the galah said: But what i stated is fact in relation to the chinese banning domestic travel from the virus epicentre ,while allowing international travel from the epicentre. It happened. It is NOT fact. Check this out: https://www.factcheck.org/2020/05/trumps-flawed-china-travel-conspiracy/ You can go further and check the data this article uses. It is readily available online and or through most flight tracking apps. Aside from the facts about flights out of Wuhan you also need to consider that even if they did continue eevidence shows that the virus was already circulating in Europe. Also Italy didn't close it's borders until 31 January a full week after China imposed restrictions on Wuhan on 23 January. 8 hours ago, the galah said: . But you don't have to think that our countries voice on whats right or wrong should be silenced simply because it may impact on us economically. I don't oppose the criticism of a country what I do oppose is criticism that is not based on data, facts and logic. If it isn't based on those things then it is racism or xenophobia. Trump poking the Panda into a corner to suit his own ends isn't going to help the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 8 hours ago, Brodie said: You are kidding aren’t you? You don’t think the lockdown has had an affect on the economy???? 2 hours ago, JJ Flash said: So am i reading you right , you think the lockdown will have no impact on NZ Economy Nope, not to any significant degree - and certainly not in relation to what was going to occur anyway. Maybe you can give us some details on how the economies of Brasil and Sweden are going? Or would you like to send a note of support to the 36000 people in Sweden who joined the jobless queue in March - letting them know how sad it is for them - but think of how lucky they are to not be in lockdown. Or perhaps, you could give us the analysed impact to the economic metrics of Sweden, Finland and Norway in relation to the virus - and tell us why Sweden is suffering as much or more than its neighbours. All those things - probably just bad timing. The lockdown isn't having the impact, the steps taken by countries worldwide is having the impact and was always going to. You look at cause and effect, and think it's the lockdown. I can't help it if you can't think beyond stupid media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 (edited) Mardigras, if you don’t think that this lockdown is not having any affect on the economic system and people’s financial situation, then it is not worth debating with you. Most people in Nz are being screwed! I suggest that you watch a bit of TV. You clearly have lost the plot and must be taking the piss!!!!! Edited May 7, 2020 by Brodie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mardigras Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Brodie said: Mardigras, if you don’t think that this lockdown is not having any affect on the economic system and people’s financial situation, then it is not worth debating with you. Most people in Nz are being screwed! I suggest that you watch a bit of TV. You clearly have lost the plot and must be taking the piss!!!!! You're right - there is no point in you debating it. You don't understand simple stuff. That's the problem, you watch too much TV and read too much news. Instead of thinking - which in your case is probably asking too much. Since you don't know better, just get yourself more stressed out over a situation you don't understand. And I'll just carry on reading a good book, having a nice wine and going for a few walks. I know which I prefer. Just tell us all why 36,000 people in Sweden joined the jobless queue in March - 18,000 of them in the last week of March. Only 10 times the number for all of March 2019. And the highest number since records started. Just an aberration in a country with no lockdown I guess. Edited May 7, 2020 by mardigras Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, mardigras said: You're right - there is no point in you debating it. You don't understand simple stuff. That's the problem, you watch too much TV and read too much news. Instead of thinking - which in your case is probably asking too much. Since you don't know better, just get yourself more stressed out over a situation you don't understand. And I'll just carry on reading a good book, having a nice wine and going for a few walks. I know which I prefer. Just tell us all why 36,000 people in Sweden joined the jobless queue in March - 18,000 of them in the last week of March. Only 10 times the number for all of March 2019. And the highest number since records started. Just an aberration in a country with no lockdown I guess. You are taking the piss!, 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ Flash Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 14 minutes ago, Brodie said: Mardigras, if you don’t think that this lockdown is not having any affect on the economic system and people’s financial situation, then it is not worth debating with you. Most people in Nz are being screwed! I suggest that you watch a bit of TV. You clearly have lost the plot and must be taking the piss!!!!! Dont waste your time Brodie. Old Neville Wong Mardigras has just done the usual . Move the goal posts but introducing something new which has no bearing on the original statement which is clearly wrong. That 2 hours ago, JJ Flash said: you think the lockdown will have no impact on NZ Economy Im pretty sure that a lot of people have no jobs as a result of the lockdown. Neville Mardigras will probably say the stats dept are telling fibs about rising unemployment numbers and that the decline in economic activity/consumption during lock down didn't happen Leave me out of this clowns stupidity Greg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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