Happy Sunrise Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 3 minutes ago, LongOwner said: It maybe a bit of a conspiracy theory but the clubs to loose their permits predominately have strong balance sheets with property , reserves or both. Will the new Act make Waterlea to be sell or Avondale etc . Clubs may wish to act in haste to beat the racing bill and disperse the money in their local community before it gets pillaged by RITA. Would some of Avondale's money make it to harness racing? One wonders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 12 minutes ago, LongOwner said: I do agree we need rationalisation I agree to. I support HRNZ and RITA in their quest to make racing better. It can't go on like it has or it may disappear next time they have to pay their bills. I dislike the word vision but I begrudgingly would like to see some at the moment. RITA and HRNZ are just taking the axe to everything and, again, it needs to be done to some degree but where do they envision harness racing will be in 5 years? Where are the detailed explanations for what is happening. They were totally screwed before the virus, so they were going to need a bailout anyway. It would have been interesting to see if they would have got one if the virus had not happened and I imagine the racing game has dodged a bullet in poor public exposure because no one really batted an eyelid with all the money being thrown around at the moment. What new owner to the game would invest money in a horse with the whole game teetering on the brink? Even with the bailout, I still think they are screwed. Hence the scorched earth policy. The racing bill and its components of stopping off shore betting etc, plus the money from Avondale are the key to the survival. Closing the likes of Waimate is neither here nor there. It is the big ticket million dollar items like Avondale that may well make or break the racing game. Strap yourself in. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 1 hour ago, LongOwner said: It maybe a bit of a conspiracy theory but the clubs to loose their permits predominately have strong balance sheets with property , reserves or both. Will the new Act make Waterlea sell or Avondale etc? I do agree we need rationalisation and a race meeting should standalone and make money without sucking on its reserves but the selection of theses clubs versus say Westport or Nelson or Refton may mean a RITA plan to balance its books by asset striping the asset rich club . Manawatu books look strong and how can HRNZ tell trainers how to run their business - as an example if Brad Williamson wants to travel to middle of the Nth island for a two day meeting that is his call not HRNZ’s . Long owner, you ask how can HRNZ tell trainers how to run their business?? On the same basis as the NZ COALITION GOVERNMENT can tell all business owners how to run their business!!! NZ has started to lose its way, and after the so-called government introduced a law that enables the NZ police to enter your home without a search warrant in one day!!! And this is what people in NZ are willing to accept? Other laws take years to get approved but this lot has taken our rights away inside 24 hours!!!!!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 16, 2020 Author Share Posted May 16, 2020 Geraldine Trotting Club Inc. Another club that pays its way - also earns more than it pays out in stakes therefore shafting it will be a net loss to the industry. Yet another club with $500k in cash assets. Note: numbers are from the the 2017 accounts. BIZNET-DOCAMENCON-51897149.PDF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Geraldine Trotting Club Inc. Another club that pays its way - also earns more than it pays out in stakes therefore shafting it will be a net loss to the industry. Yet another club with $500k in cash assets. Note: numbers are from the the 2017 accounts. BIZNET-DOCAMENCON-51897149.PDF 5.78 MB · 1 download What strikes me is the 2017 on course turnover for 2 meetings was only $155,000. Those meetings were run in good weather. In 2017 one of the meetings had huge crowd which filled up the carpark,and some. Obviously people were there more for the occasion than to have a bet.I always think there needs to be a mobile tote, take the betting facilities to the crowd and if they don't come to you. When clubs like geraldine fold they will no doubt sell the plant and equipment to the locals in the know for next to nothing. In 2017 they had about $240,000 in the bank so a bit better off than waimate, but when you look at them in comparison to the other clubs mentioned earlier on here, you can understand why they were chosen for closure. The only surprising thing was South Canterbury had all 3 tracks closed and are only left with a galloping track,who will now struggle to maintain their course and facilities now they have lost the $66,000 which the trotting club contributed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 16, 2020 Author Share Posted May 16, 2020 32 minutes ago, the galah said: What strikes me is the 2017 on course turnover for 2 meetings was only $155,000. Those meetings were run in good weather. In 2017 one of the meetings had huge crowd which filled up the carpark,and some. Why the fixation on On-course turnover? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Mcintyre Posted May 16, 2020 Share Posted May 16, 2020 23 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: WYNDHAM HARNESS RACING CLUB INC A very strong club with cash in the bank. Subsidised racing from farming activities. BIZNET-DOCAMENCON-61733036.PDF 874.69 kB · 4 downloads farm acc c,/b -32700 o/b+32700 or am I wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 16, 2020 Author Share Posted May 16, 2020 8 minutes ago, Gary Mcintyre said: farm acc c,/b -32700 o/b+32700 or am I wrong Net surplus for Sales 2019 is stated as $31,104. They are still carrying livestock with a book value of $51k. Cash on hand in bank was $132,000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 35 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Why the fixation on On-course turnover? Why not? I pointed out crowd size does not necessarily point to turnover. Geraldine an example of that. Turnover is a major factor for income and no doubt is a factor when looking at closures for some clubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share Posted May 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, the galah said: Why not? I pointed out crowd size does not necessarily point to turnover. Geraldine an example of that. Turnover is a major factor for income and no doubt is a factor when looking at closures for some clubs. Then why not close all tracks that have had a reduction in on-course turnover? Why are they building 3 synthetic tracks at a cost of $30m that will not enhance the on-course race viewing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Then why not close all tracks that have had a reduction in on-course turnover? Why are they building 3 synthetic tracks at a cost of $30m that will not enhance the on-course race viewing? It will not enhance on-course viewing and it is as boring as shit to watch on TV. Another lemon sold to the industry in the guise of improving it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Then why not close all tracks that have had a reduction in on-course turnover? Why are they building 3 synthetic tracks at a cost of $30m that will not enhance the on-course race viewing? You've lost me a bit. I said timaru had an on course turnover of $153,000 from 7 meetings. I said big crowds don't always equate to big turnover.,and that geraldine on course turnover would be down if we saw the figures for the last couple of years. Personally I always look at money in the pools when placing a bet and i have always been interested in turnovers. I'm not sure,but you seem to be suggesting the synthetic tracks are a poor investment. Perhaps you should read what the president of the nz trainers association,tony pike said about them. His comments were very positive towards them. Is it just another example of the galloping code not being able to agree on anything? And tell me,why the fixation on synthetic tracks? Edited May 17, 2020 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 43 minutes ago, the galah said: Personally I always look at money in the pools when placing a bet and i have always been interested in turnovers. Fixed odds are not included in the pools are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 44 minutes ago, the galah said: I said big crowds don't always equate to big turnover.,and that geraldine on course turnover would be down if we saw the figures for the last couple of years. That is true. Geraldine would be down because of the weather. I wonder what Oamaru's on course turnover would be? Have to be pitiful too. I thought on course turnover was insignificant in the age of the TAB app? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 3 hours ago, the galah said: Why not? I pointed out crowd size does not necessarily point to turnover. Geraldine an example of that. Turnover is a major factor for income and no doubt is a factor when looking at closures for some clubs. Total turnover wouldn't it be? The one meeting clubs would have far bigger turnover than clubs with several meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongOwner Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 The lack of industry transparency hasalways annoyed me . Surely it is possible for RITA / TAB then HRNZ publish from each meeting - - On course turnover - Off course turnover - Fixed odd turnover - Exotic turnover So total turnover say MET next Friday Then stakes contribution from RITA Then gross stakes paid to owners / races Net stakes paid ( net of nomination fees, industry associated body contribution - Sires Stakes , Filly Series etc ) Then we can see who is the best performing club for us all to digest . Then the case for closure maybe very apparent or the opposite. Also how do HRNZ know the horse population and location etc - they couldn’t even be bothered to ring Mark & Nat but managed to call the small time favourite trainer . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said: Fixed odds are not included in the pools are they? not the ones shown on the tab site. It was only about 5 years ago oamaru had xmas at the races and the car park was full as well. Those clubs that have only a small population base to attract seem to have the xmas at the races go well at the start,but drop away after a couple of years.Workplaces like to do something different each year. Edited May 17, 2020 by the galah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 14 minutes ago, LongOwner said: Surely it is possible for RITA / TAB then HRNZ publish from each meeting - - On course turnover - Off course turnover - Fixed odd turnover - Exotic turnover So total turnover say MET next Friday Then stakes contribution from RITA Then gross stakes paid to owners / races Net stakes paid ( net of nomination fees, industry associated body contribution - Sires Stakes , Filly Series etc ) Then we can see who is the best performing club for us all to digest . To my knowledge it hasn't happened yet and doubt it ever will. Would be very interesting information to see. 16 minutes ago, LongOwner said: Also how do HRNZ know the horse population and location etc - they couldn’t even be bothered to ring Mark & Nat but managed to call the small time favourite trainer . They seem to have those figures. It was interesting to hear the figures for the lower North Island. Someone would have worked it out. It would not be very hard if you have the time. I bet my bottom dollar there is a comprehensive reports regarding stakes, horse numbers etc in the possession of the people who have made these decisions. Winston might look down on the person whining on the fence at the track but if he wanted that to stop he would insist more detailed information be out there for everyone. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 16 minutes ago, the galah said: It was only about 5 years ago oamaru had xmas at the races and the car park was full as well. Oamaru is very quiet these days. I think there has been a drop off at just about every racecourse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 The question of disclosure of turnover figures was asked to RITA's Dean McKenzie. His response is in red font below: 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) Just looking at the tote pool for Bathurst trots with 2.0 minutes to go And there is $249 in the win pool. Closed with $511 in the win pool Our grocery bill is more than that per week mostly! I imagine that is for Australasia. Absolutely pathetic, that Oz is racing and NZ was shut down totally!!! Edited May 17, 2020 by Brodie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spatchcock Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 Chief, where are you finding these documents... my humble google searches turn up nothing (looking for other clubs like the Central Districts ones plus Invercargill and Winton). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise Posted May 17, 2020 Share Posted May 17, 2020 11 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said: I think there has been a drop off at just about every racecourse. And to add to my own comment. There is no way it is going to improve. Not with what is being proposed. Does anyone think people from Waimate will travel to Oamaru? Gore to Invercargill? Geraldine to Methven? Will sponsors go? RITA and HRNZ are getting a free ride from the clubs by using mostly unpaid personnel to run meetings at different courses from their hometown. I would conclude two things. 1. Attendances, and everything associated with being on course, is unimportant. 2. RITA and HRNZ have essentially closed the tracks of some clubs but they wish to retain the unpaid volunteer of these clubs so they a) do not pass on increased workloads to the members of the clubs who have new dates and b) they get to run the meeting like they used to for next to nothing. If I am incorrect, what are the costs of the TAB and what are the cost of the club on race day? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share Posted May 17, 2020 13 minutes ago, Spatchcock said: Chief, where are you finding these documents... my humble google searches turn up nothing (looking for other clubs like the Central Districts ones plus Invercargill and Winton). I go to the HRNZ site. Find the exact name of the club. Then go to the incorporated societies website and do a search. Normally the first two words are enough. You'll find the annual accounts under filings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share Posted May 17, 2020 20 minutes ago, Rusty said: The question of disclosure of turnover figures was asked to RITA's Dean McKenzie. His response is in red font below: Rusty can you translate please. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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