Team Driving - Guilty

[Happy Sunrise]

24 minutes ago, Noodlum said:

Ask CJ as that was what he said I in his evidence.  If the horse was a better proposition then he would have held his position.

 

Why start if it has no show? You can't let a precedent be set like that.

Mr DeFilippi in summing up said he agreed with Mr Ydgren’s statement except that his horse’s record is not good or it’s manners and this is was why he took a conservative approach. He said “it wasn’t going to make a difference to my position but it might have made a difference to the horse that ran second, ROYAL PRIDE, but it wasn’t going to make a difference to my position at the finish”.

 

So, I don't think my horse is much chop so I will let my stablemate into the trail.  Seriously, what kind of defence is that? 

 

 

[Happy Sunrise]

30 minutes ago, Noodlum said:

The punters should be happy as the result was what they predicted.

Oh good, forget what is right and wrong in a race.

Favourites can only win in racing, is that what you are saying?

[Noodlum]

16 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

Favourites can only win in racing, is that what you are saying?

Using that argument why wasn't Thornley questioned for not attacking the favourite harder when he had a chance?

[Happy Sunrise]

1 hour ago, Noodlum said:

Using that argument why wasn't Thornley questioned for not attacking the favourite harder when he had a chance?

All yours.

I am out of this conversation.

[Brodie]

And we don’t see the AllStars stable team driving and giving stablemates favours??
CJ had nothing whatsoever to gain and from watching the replay you can see that if he hadve pressed on then his horse possibly gallops.

Ydgren says that it was perceptively damaging the look of harness racing!!!

FFS, what be good if HRNZ could look at the many other things that has damaged the image of harness racing which they have caused!!!!

[Rusty]

3 hours ago, Brodie said:

Ydgren says that it was perceptively damaging the look of harness racing!!!

"Damaging the look of harness racing"?!?! 

The look of it. 

Damaging the look of it.

It's a funny phrase to use.

Who, and how many are "looking" at it? 

Only some industry participants would have been looking at it and I'd suggest not too many people would even care a great deal about it. 

"Damaging the look of it."

Team driving. It happens. Sometimes the stipes will address it by saying it breaks the rules of the game. Does breaking the rules, mean cheating is occurring? 

Like you said Brodie, HRNZ should be addressing other things that have damaged the image of the sport, or better still, putting more energy into promoting the sport to the general public.

Now that would be a good look. To many; active, current and past industry participants, plus the wider public and community in general.  

[Brodie]

Colin De Filippi in my opinion would be as honest a person that there is in harness racing in NZ.

You only have to look at his record for many decades, and questioning his honesty in that race is puzzling?

Still dont believe that CJ deliberately let that horse in because it was a stablemate!

If an Allstar horse comes around and gives another Allstars horse cover, on the same basis that driver needs to be charged!,

[Noodlum]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

Colin De Filippi in my opinion would be as honest a person that there is in harness racing in NZ.

You only have to look at his record for many decades, and questioning his honesty in that race is puzzling?

Still dont believe that CJ deliberately let that horse in because it was a stablemate!

If an Allstar horse comes around and gives another Allstars horse cover, on the same basis that driver needs to be charged!,

I believe CJ was driving "to ensure the best possible finishing outcome" for the horse he was driving.  The horse was an inexperienced trotter backing up in less than a week that has a lot to learn and is not an easy drive.  It was a 7 horse maiden trotters field with a hot favourite and a clear second favourite.  The horse was racing for third at best.  As it is when the pressure went on it broke and ended up 50 lengths last!

Wasn't too long ago that this type of horse wouldn't have got a start and would have had to have good trial form to do so.

Now we have the situation where maiden trotters are learning the game in $9,000 races.  The Stipes are inexperienced and wouldn't have a clue.

Those of us that are long term harness followers wouldn't have backed it and understand what happened.  Other punters who don't understand harness racing wouldn't have even noticed!

Maybe they should look at the betting records to make it a complete farce!

[Honestjohn]

I only back trotters that have form, not rodeo performers. Breakers need to go back to workouts.  Cj is honest and one of the good guys IMHO. These younger trainers are another matter.

[hunterthepunter]

there never has been any team driving . cj as honest as they come . so what is the next bazaar thing they will try and pin???

[whiplash smile]

Yep Cj is a stand up guy. but he did do this , Your only obligation is to your charge!! I did not have a bet but Happy is  pointing out a clear and obvious advantage that was rewarded in this respect,

 

You cant even identify people correctly HTP! Your personal opinion has NOTHING!!!! to do with enforcing rules!

 

Everybody complains that the stipes get it wrong!!!  like a fucking religion!! They make the correct assesment and you adjust and skew your perspective to suit your own personal feelings and  pocket?

 

The TAB is now fucked and so are the punters!!

This post has fucked me off more than any! post I have ever read!! If you can not see the point of the comment then you are just as fuckin dumb and wrong as every post that you all protest about stipes not enforcing rules!!!!

 The stipes are right!!!!   why dont they do this or do that?? and then they do!! and you want a blind eye turned cause it doesnt suit you?

 

If I was a TAB bookie now I would tell you to fuck off aswell!!   Absolute nonsense!

 

LETS BE FAIR!!!! IF IT WAS MARK PURDON YOU WOULD BE ORAGNIZING THE LYNCH MOB!!!!

 

HYPOCRISY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Brodie]

Allstars wouldnt get done for it ever!

It would be in the media big time and not great publicity again for harness racing!

We all have opinions and that is good!

Reality is that drivers pull back all the time and let other horses in, when they dont have to!

They may not be stablemates but are they going to get done?

This sets a precedent once again.

[whiplash smile]

36 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Allstars wouldnt get done for it ever!

It would be in the media big time and not great publicity again for harness racing!

We all have opinions and that is good!

Reality is that drivers pull back all the time and let other horses in, when they dont have to!

They may not be stablemates but are they going to get done?

This sets a precedent once again.

Absolute nonsense!!!  A sensationalist over exaggeration as per usual, have All stars ever been fined?  YES!!! I thought the whole crux of this talk was about consistency and fairness!!!   To see the reaction some of you have had about the post really has spun my head 180 !

But the whole hypocrisy of someone calling out something for analysis and then (nah fuck it!) I am going to keep off the threads for this post for everybodys sake!!!!

 

[Honestjohn]

Ill give you one scenario, I had a good horse that was set for a race, this is what I heard, trainer told driver go to the front, keep the front, and sprint at the 400. You have the best horse. Because my horse was about 6/6 in the betting no one gave it a thought, until the start when the driver went for the lead, the driver said after the race that he said to the leading driver, I'm going to the front as he was alongside the leading driver. The leader said I'm not handing up,the driver of mine said to him,I going to the front, the leading driver said you better not hand up.!  Leading driver handed up the lead, my driver gave him cover until the final bend when he let it go with a crack and went on to win easily. Trailing horse finished mid field.  You can see the drivers talking on the replay.  Some of the words may have been expletives. It's quite funny to watch actually. So everyone has their own interests at heart.

 

[whiplash smile]

58 minutes ago, Brodie said:

 

 

This sets a precedent once again.

 

Wow!!!???, The same precedent  to what result?    you have been advocating  againstfor for the last 5 years?

 

You want unrestricted betting?  (yes to a degree, (reasonably it legally would be  unlikely and no entity would insure themselves against it!!!   Rules have a certain leeway, When there's a clear breach and again I don't normally win bet and had no interest than the post out of general Interest!

 

Brodie I am 90% with you mate and your passion for the Industry!!!! Truly I am! But you spent all the money on Space Invaders today,  Wait for Mum to give you some more pocket money !!!! and cheer up!!

 

IF YOU SPENT MAYBE 30% of THE TIME CALCULATING A PLAN???? IT CAN BE DONE (not just me!!) YOU HAVE HOW MANY PEOPLE ON THIS PLATFORM THAT WOULD GLADLY HELP YOU???

How you have ever been sucessful? as a punter astounds me/ even at reasonable odds you are a law of averages certain loser!

 

Yes I know you are so rich and dont need to sell railway sleepers as you constantly remind us all, but your credibility starts smelling like liars weasel piss when you give the impression that you are successful financially with your harness place bets!!

 

ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Did you ever wonder why that AML act came into effect??? Are there multiple Brodies walking around with $10 to 30k for a night out????     Spend the next two weeks THINKING!!!!! and then you might just get it!!!  DO YOU GET TAXED   EXTRA????

NO!!!  WHY??? AFTER  5K posts on this you still haven't figured it out??? Who do you work for Brodie I was thinkin bout a Career change and if you got the dosh outside of an Inheritance, nah wait real estate agents did past lawyers as the most distrusted  profession! (small birdy told me)

 

DO YOU HAVE ANY FRIENDS?  ARE THEY OVER 18?  I have just given you the first two steps to do this LEGALLY! Why are they doing this (re-read post, theres a clue wink, wink!)

 

THERE ARE 9/10 probs with their methadology  (TAB)  but if you just continue to rehash the same tired an redundant posts without heeding the GOOD ADVICE!!!  from so many!  or hints then I dont know cause I dont know any other hobby punter who makes $1 k profits regulary that they wont do out of what is defined by yourself as ethically sound and legally stable priciples! Your a special breed BRODSTER!!!! (wont cash winnings simply cause of morality?)

 

 

[whiplash smile]

1 hour ago, Brodie said:

 

 

This sets a precedent once again.

 

Wow!!!???, The same precedent  to what result?  The same one   you have been advocating  againstr for the last 5 years?

 

You want unrestricted betting?  (yes to a degree, (reasonably. it legally would be  unlikely and no entity would insure themselves against it!!!   Rules have a certain leeway, When there's a clear breach and again I don't normally win bet and had no interest than the post out of general Interest!

 

Brodie I am 90% with you mate and your passion for the Industry!!!! Truly I am! But you spent all the money on Space Invaders today,  Wait for Mum to give you some more pocket money !!!! and cheer up!!

 

IF YOU SPENT MAYBE 30% of THE TIME CALCULATING A PLAN???? IT CAN BE DONE (not just me!!) YOU HAVE HOW MANY PEOPLE ON THIS PLATFORM THAT WOULD GLADLY HELP YOU???

How you have ever been sucessful? as a punter astounds me/ even at reasonable odds you are a law of averages certain loser!

 

Yes I know you are so rich and dont need to sell railway sleepers as you constantly remind us all, but your credibility starts smelling like liars weasel piss when you give the impression that you are successful financially with your harness place bets!!

 

ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Did you ever wonder why that AML act came into effect??? Are there multiple Brodies walking around with $10 to 30k for a night out????  (wonder where the$100k ones went/ Did joe bloggs feel uncomfortable? and take his 100k pocket money somewhere else?)  Pull your head out of your arse!!   Spend the next two weeks THINKING!!!!! and then you might just get it!!!  DO YOU GET TAXED   EXTRA????

NO!!!  WHY??? AFTER  5K posts on this you still haven't figured it out??? Who do you work for Brodie I was thinkin bout a Career change and if you got the dosh outside of an Inheritance, nah wait real estate agents did past lawyers as the most distrusted  profession! (small birdy told me) and made sense,

 

DO YOU HAVE ANY FRIENDS?  ARE THEY OVER 18?  I have just given you the first two steps to do this LEGALLY! Why are they doing this (re-read post, theres a clue wink, wink!)

 

THERE ARE 9/10 probs with their methadology  (TAB)  but if you just continue to rehash the same tired an redundant posts without heeding the GOOD ADVICE!!!  from so many!  or hints then I dont know cause I dont know any other hobby punter who makes $1 k profits regularly that they wont cash out because of a stance of that is defined by yourself as ethically sound and legally stable priciples! Your a special breed BRODSTER!!!! (wont cash winnings simply cause of morality?)

 

If you are that good give us a tip that will hurt them? I have just given you a $75 an $15 , an $8 an $2 but never heard a peep from you unless its to complain?

Why Is that?

[whiplash smile]

35 minutes ago, Honestjohn said:

Ill give you one scenario, I had a good horse that was set for a race, this is what I heard, trainer told driver go to the front, keep the front, and sprint at the 400. You have the best horse. Because my horse was about 6/6 in the betting no one gave it a thought, until the start when the driver went for the lead, the driver said after the race that he said to the leading driver, I'm going to the front as he was alongside the leading driver. The leader said I'm not handing up,the driver of mine said to him,I going to the front, the leading driver said you better not hand up.!  Leading driver handed up the lead, my driver gave him cover until the final bend when he let it go with a crack and went on to win easily. Trailing horse finished mid field.  You can see the drivers talking on the replay.  Some of the words may have been expletives. It's quite funny to watch actually. So everyone has their own interests at heart.

 

Terrible but not quite as bad as the aussies (Harness) who were so relaxed not only warming up but mid race struggling to remember and discussing whos turn it was this week to win midrace!!!! leader and parked, only took a lipreading deaf relative of an official (1st time racegoer) who innocently asked a question out of confusion!

JUST SAD!!!

 

[Chief Stipe]

I remember when my Dad had a horse in the Derby.  Dunhill was his name.  A very good horse that unfortunately never quite fulfilled his potential due to a knee problem.

Ted Lowe said he was the fastest horse he'd driven on his track at Hinds.  Timed him to run a furlong in 12 seconds.  Ted trained the first horse to break 2 mins over a mile in NZ - Wag (I might be wrong on that).

Anyway back to the Derby.  Georgie Shand and Borana went to the front and we attacked him one out facing the breeze.  We weren't particularly happy with the drive and we asked why did you keep attacking "He was supposed to hand up and he didn't.  That's the rule."  We pointed out that it was the NZ Derby not a maiden 3yr old trot!

Mighty Me won the Derby and Borana went on later to win the NZ Cup at large odds.

[Chief Stipe]

Colin is a relative of mine via the clothesline and I would without hesitation say he is as honest as the day is long.  To impugn his character with this silly charge is a sad reflection of where Harness racing has fallen to.  Anyone with an ounce of understanding of harness racing would attest that CJ's actions didn't alter the outcome.

Stipe decisions need perspective.  FFS it was a maiden trot with a field of 7 runners.  Five of whom wouldn't have got a start at headquarters if Harness Racing was where it should be.

Which one of you "punters" felt you were disadvantaged by his actions?

[whiplash smile]

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

I remember when my Dad had a horse in the Derby.  Dunhill was his name.  A very good horse that unfortunately never quite fulfilled his potential due to a knee problem.

Ted Lowe said he was the fastest horse he'd driven on his track at Hinds.  Timed him to run a furlong in 12 seconds.  Ted trained the first horse to break 2 mins over a mile in NZ - Wag (I might be wrong on that).

Anyway back to the Derby.  Georgie Shand and Borana went to the front and we attacked him one out facing the breeze.  We weren't particularly happy with the drive and we asked why did you keep attacking "He was supposed to hand up and he didn't.  That's the rule."  We pointed out that it was the NZ Derby not a maiden 3yr old trot!

Mighty Me won the Derby and Borana went on later to win the NZ Cup at large odds.

I remember rushing home after getting off the school bus to see what I regard chief as the best NZ cup ever! Borana with Master Jones SNR!  and the great reon murtha, Thats HR! It was $60 , 70 0r 80? and he swamped them!  I miss the excitement an anticipation that the race provided! truly classic race!

My mum would only allow dad to give me $2 a year (paper) Luxury Liner an the brilliant  Brent mangos working for Roy and Barry on a new years eve on the wireless! sensational memories!

[Happy Sunrise]

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

To impugn his character with this silly charge is a sad reflection of where Harness racing has fallen to. 

Did you read the stipes report?

 

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Anyone with an ounce of understanding of harness racing would attest that CJ's actions didn't alter the outcome.

That makes no sense at all. What does the outcome have to do with it? The timing of the action was 100-200m after the start.

3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

FFS it was a maiden trot with a field of 7 runners.  Five of whom wouldn't have got a start at headquarters if Harness Racing was where it should be.

What does that have to do with it? That is total bullshit. So you can do what you want in a race because it is not high quality?

4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Which one of you "punters" felt you were disadvantaged by his actions?

Seriously? I think this is the most disappointing post I have ever read from you.

[Chief Stipe]

2 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

What does that have to do with it? That is total bullshit. So you can do what you want in a race because it is not high quality?

It's like comparing the pre-school 20m sprint with a Senior 100m national final!  

The only difference is someone has put a bet on! 

So you backed another horse in the field to beat the first two because you had worked out that they would have cut each other's throat in front?

[Brodie]

4 hours ago, whiplash smile said:

Wow!!!???, The same precedent  to what result?  The same one   you have been advocating  againstr for the last 5 years?

 

You want unrestricted betting?  (yes to a degree, (reasonably. it legally would be  unlikely and no entity would insure themselves against it!!!   Rules have a certain leeway, When there's a clear breach and again I don't normally win bet and had no interest than the post out of general Interest!

 

Brodie I am 90% with you mate and your passion for the Industry!!!! Truly I am! But you spent all the money on Space Invaders today,  Wait for Mum to give you some more pocket money !!!! and cheer up!!

 

IF YOU SPENT MAYBE 30% of THE TIME CALCULATING A PLAN???? IT CAN BE DONE (not just me!!) YOU HAVE HOW MANY PEOPLE ON THIS PLATFORM THAT WOULD GLADLY HELP YOU???

How you have ever been sucessful? as a punter astounds me/ even at reasonable odds you are a law of averages certain loser!

 

Yes I know you are so rich and dont need to sell railway sleepers as you constantly remind us all, but your credibility starts smelling like liars weasel piss when you give the impression that you are successful financially with your harness place bets!!

 

ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Did you ever wonder why that AML act came into effect??? Are there multiple Brodies walking around with $10 to 30k for a night out????  (wonder where the$100k ones went/ Did joe bloggs feel uncomfortable? and take his 100k pocket money somewhere else?)  Pull your head out of your arse!!   Spend the next two weeks THINKING!!!!! and then you might just get it!!!  DO YOU GET TAXED   EXTRA????

NO!!!  WHY??? AFTER  5K posts on this you still haven't figured it out??? Who do you work for Brodie I was thinkin bout a Career change and if you got the dosh outside of an Inheritance, nah wait real estate agents did past lawyers as the most distrusted  profession! (small birdy told me) and made sense,

 

DO YOU HAVE ANY FRIENDS?  ARE THEY OVER 18?  I have just given you the first two steps to do this LEGALLY! Why are they doing this (re-read post, theres a clue wink, wink!)

 

THERE ARE 9/10 probs with their methadology  (TAB)  but if you just continue to rehash the same tired an redundant posts without heeding the GOOD ADVICE!!!  from so many!  or hints then I dont know cause I dont know any other hobby punter who makes $1 k profits regularly that they wont cash out because of a stance of that is defined by yourself as ethically sound and legally stable priciples! Your a special breed BRODSTER!!!! (wont cash winnings simply cause of morality?)

 

If you are that good give us a tip that will hurt them? I have just given you a $75 an $15 , an $8 an $2 but never heard a peep from you unless its to complain?

Why Is that?

Whiplash, this is your best rant ever!

Not a Lot of point responding to it, apart from wanting to know if you are in the market for some sleepers?

PS. You are right, I am the worst punter in the country, so can you have a word in the ear of the Bookies in Wellington and get  My restrictions lifted?

Edited September 3, 2020 by Brodie

[Happy Sunrise]

2 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

It's like comparing the pre-school 20m sprint with a Senior 100m national final!  

The rules of racing apply to every race regardless.

 

3 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

So you backed another horse in the field to beat the first two because you had worked out that they would have cut each other's throat in front?

What?

[Brodie]

It is great that we can have debate on BOAY, makes for interesting reading!

Hi Everyone may have a differing opinion as to whether CJ was guilty of an offence!

Maybe he was in terms of the rules, was he deliberate in his actions because it was a stablemate of the horse he didnt train?

Personally dont think it mattered that it was a Sam Smolenski horse that made him restrain his horse at all!!!!