Joe Bloggs Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, Huey said: You're sounding more and more like your nemesis on the other channel everyday. He now claiming TA are victims in the OP case, officially heard it all now. Did you read where he said it will all be over on Monday? a positive result? Oh it's too funny........Danny de Vito lives in AKL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 wrong nemesis, the dorkshire vet said that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said: In a perfect world we should never let expense rule over integrity, however racing nz is a very different animal to racing global...... Perhaps. But in my opinion this an issue the whole sporting world is grappling with. In my opinion you can no longer have a "zero tolerance" threshold. The testing systems are just way too sensitive that false positives and cross-contamination can become the norm. You need to look at thresholds that relate to outcomes - what level of substance x results in an advantage? You only have to look at what happened (still happening) with Cobalt. Peter Moody being the classic case. I was leaning towards him not being a cheat until recently but now I'm convinced. The reason for that is some research I did into the tests that are being used for Covid-19. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 9 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said: In a galaxy far far away, I was foreman in a 50 horse stable. I would do the feeds every night those that needed meds got them from me, and me only........the buck stopped with me, on my days off, the boss would do the feeds. I used a bran mash to tease the med digestion, stand there and hand feed them.......oh how times have changed, for better or worse? your choice. Certainly things have moved on Joe in terms of the science of feeding an elite athlete be it human or equine. Some stables regularly take blood samples and adjust feeds accordingly. I remember when I was in my teens and a keen athlete. Electrolyte supplements were the "new" thing to aid performance and recovery. I think one brand was Sustalyte. At about the same time we started adding it to our horse feeds. LOL it was cheaper for me to use the horse stuff than buy from the Chemist! Now you wouldn't dream of not putting electrolyte replacements into feeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KickintheKods Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 Jezzusss fellas and fellessas....lighten up I've heard that many rumours about this very interesting incident that I am starting to think it may have been Donald Trump doing the feeds on the day in question. Three questions I do have. RIU sources have informed Michael the slippery scribe that it is possibly a Morphine droplet in the mix. Who could possibly he be referring to at the RIU ? Is there a leak in the pipe at headquaters (yes there is at the other one coz I get wet feet when having a whiz ) and what possible motivation does the leaker have for feeding Michael the slippery scribe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 8 minutes ago, KickintheKods said: RIU sources have informed Michael the slippery scribe that it is possibly a Morphine droplet in the mix. Where did you hear that one from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 30 minutes ago, Huey said: You're sounding more and more like your nemesis on the other channel everyday. Well that narrows it down to about 30! Which Nemesis? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 What level of substance >>>> leading to what results to advantage ? So true Chief Contaminated feed, ? very easy to see that happening with all the scientists involved (esp BIG stables) Accidental contamination from staff (that take stuff themselves) ? very possible too. as some posters said. WALLER also had a positive in a horse for Methamphetememe Ice in 2016 . stoned Staff member dropped some of his personal use stuff in the feed. ? wow !!! good staff are EVERYTHING to a good stable... lol. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 10 minutes ago, Gammalite said: What level of substance >>>> leading to what results to advantage ? WALLER also had a positive in a horse for Methamphetememe Ice in 2016 . stoned Staff member dropped some of his personal use stuff in the feed. ? wow !!! good staff are EVERYTHING to a good stable... lol. Didnt the feed company take the hit for one of the those? The Junoob one was an errant employee or something like that wasn't it? A morphine droplet, that sounds good. So someone has had to drop it in there who would do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 9 minutes ago, Gammalite said: What level of substance >>>> leading to what results to advantage ? So true Chief Contaminated feed, ? very easy to see that happening with all the scientists involved (esp BIG stables) Accidental contamination from staff (that take stuff themselves) ? very possible too. as some posters said. WALLER also had a positive in a horse for Methamphetememe Ice in 2016 . stoned Staff member dropped some of his personal use stuff in the feed. ? wow !!! good staff are EVERYTHING to a good stable... lol. Yep. All good points. Unless you put your horses under 24/7 Guard and in a Closed System then these types of things will happen. Quite frankly I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KickintheKods Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 19 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Where did you hear that one from? The anti Te Akau brigade are hot and heavy on the rumour mill, jealousy is such an eviltrait isn't it - so it could easily be incorrect, but i have heard it repeated a number of times in the past 24 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 30 minutes ago, KickintheKods said: Jezzusss fellas and fellessas....lighten up I've heard that many rumours about this very interesting incident that I am starting to think it may have been Donald Trump doing the feeds on the day in question. Three questions I do have. RIU sources have informed Michael the slippery scribe that it is possibly a Morphine droplet in the mix. Who could possibly he be referring to at the RIU ? Is there a leak in the pipe at headquaters (yes there is at the other one coz I get wet feet when having a whiz ) and what possible motivation does the leaker have for feeding Michael the slippery scribe? So now we investigate the scribe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 7 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Yep. All good points. Unless you put your horses under 24/7 Guard and in a Closed System then these types of things will happen. Quite frankly I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often. Yes , this time of year last year ALLIGATOR BLOOD had a positive in the Magic millions Guineas . (that race is on tomorrow BTW , go Isotope for the QLDers !! to beat invading forces) Alligator Blood 'Got-at' apparently ?? How you would wonder. But seems to of lost dash now on different 'feed'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted January 14, 2021 Share Posted January 14, 2021 23 minutes ago, Huey said: Didnt the feed company take the hit for one of the those? The Junoob one was an errant employee or something like that wasn't it? A morphine droplet, that sounds good. So someone has had to drop it in there who would do that? Yes a feed company took the rap for the 4 x 2013 WALLER positives. The 'Ice" guy ? I don't know , that's pretty funny heheh 'horse on Ice ' lol...... Morphine is an S8 Restricted Drug, must be kept on a register under lock and key. very hard (impossible) to get without a Doctor involvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 Could someone who understands science tell in what forms morphine can come in what form they would be used in the making of feed that could lead to a " feed irregularity ". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 9 minutes ago, Gammalite said: Morphine is an S8 Restricted Drug, must be kept on a register under lock and key. very hard (impossible) to get without a Doctor involvement. Or Vet. However these things can accumulate in people's medicine cabinets at home over time. Who knows. But I imagine Te Akau have impeccable records - afterall it isn't as if they are not under constant scrutiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 11 minutes ago, nomates said: Could someone who understands science tell in what forms morphine can come in what form they would be used in the making of feed that could lead to a " feed irregularity ". I don't know how the testing protocol works but there are a number of morphine synthetic type analogues e.g. Tramadol. However personally I doubt that the contamination has come from feed because as you elude to there wouldn't be any feed additive that would have morphine in it. The "feed contamination" angle is not the only possible cross contamination source but is the one that everyone seems to be picking up on. It has happened before and will happen again where cross contamination occurs in the testing lab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jess Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 4 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said: This one paragraph is very damning as to transparency and integrity in NZ journalism......oh, and racing Sources close to the case have told the Herald the RIU does not believe Richards or any of his staff have been involved in any wrongdoing and the most likely source of the irregularity is cross-contamination, whether from a human handler, feed or absorption. Spot on Joe. 100%. Surely a bit premature to start exonerating the "accused"/dismissing the "evidence"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jess Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Freda said: Yeah....same as a positive attributed to feed stored in a warehouse where party pills were made. I like to think I am fairly logical, and look for science-based facts or proof....but, ffs, how much 'contamination' is really likely? Cattle water troughs shared by Derby colts? Really? Oh Freda ... please don't take me back to that vision of those poor elite 3y/o beauties - schlepping round in the ragwort pasture, trying not to set their beautifully shod & dainty feet in the cowpats ...locked behind the electric tape gazing at the green pasture beyond (but knowing in their hearts they're not bred to jump 😜) ... . forlornly following the silage wagon round when lunch is delivered ... trying to avoid those big Friesians who want to chew their silken tails ...and walking gingerly down the stony cow race to the waiting horse-truck on race-day morning It always makes me sad .... Edited January 15, 2021 by jess typo 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 7 minutes ago, jess said: Surely a bit premature to start exonerating the "accused"/dismissing the "evidence"? Equally premature to convict them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: I don't know how the testing protocol works but there are a number of morphine synthetic type analogues e.g. Tramadol. However personally I doubt that the contamination has come from feed because as you elude to there wouldn't be any feed additive that would have morphine in it. The "feed contamination" angle is not the only possible cross contamination source but is the one that everyone seems to be picking up on. It has happened before and will happen again where cross contamination occurs in the testing lab. 3 minutes ago, jess said: Spot on Joe. 100%. Surely a bit premature to start exonerating the "accused"/dismissing the "evidence"? I think they have jumped the gun here , basically telling the jury it's nothing to worry about so just say " not guilty . The only thing i can think of , and it's just a guess , she had been possibly receiving some form of pain relieve , and some residue was still in her system . This is pure conjecture tho . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, nomates said: The only thing i can think of , and it's just a guess , she had been possibly receiving some form of pain relieve , and some residue was still in her system . This is pure conjecture tho . Which should be recorded in their records. It isn't illegal to administer morphine for therapeutic reasons if prescribed by a Vet. I wish when they write these "news" articles they give us some facts. For example what was the level detected? Does anyone know how many positives Te Akau has returned over the years of their operation? I can't recall off hand any. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jess Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 Just now, Chief Stipe said: Equally premature to convict them. Never said I was in favor of that Chief - please don't misinterpret my post. If you know of one, please feel free to quote me another example where this early on in the piece, such a quote has been made inviting an inference of innocence.... I am neither for nor against Te Akau. I am for fairness, transparency & a healthy industry. I do not begrudge Te Akau their success. However I find myself pondering the position if a sport/industry has a player in the game who is considered "too big to fail". What then? J. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said: Which should be recorded in their records. It isn't illegal to administer morphine for therapeutic reasons if prescribed by a Vet. I wish when they write these "news" articles they give us some facts. For example what was the level detected? Does anyone know how many positives Te Akau has returned over the years of their operation? I can't recall off hand any. Does the earlier comment ''pre race testing' resonate Chief? The only first world????? racing jurisdiction that doesn't pre-race, or mostly doesn't.....hang their bloody heads in shame.......what's the reason for that?....too expensive? no money in the bank? either, either. I'm not singling out Te Akau, but IF there was pre-race testing it would cut out the innuendo and supposition........you'd think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 minute ago, jess said: Never said I was in favor of that Chief - please don't misinterpret my post. If you know of one, please feel free to quote me another example where this early on in the piece, such a quote has been made inviting an inference of innocence.... J. I agree with your sentiment to a point. However you are assigning the tenor of a news article as if Te Akau wrote it. As for declarations of innocence "early on in the piece" I think it is accurate to say that most accused always attest to that. What did you want "no comment" or "yes we are guilty"? 9 minutes ago, jess said: I am neither for nor against Te Akau. I am for fairness, transparency & a healthy industry. I agree about fairness and transparency. But isn't it up to the RIU as much as any of the parties to provide the detail and transparency? You know as well as I do that in this industry rumours abound and quickly grow their own legs! 10 minutes ago, jess said: I do not begrudge Te Akau their success. However I find myself pondering the position if a sport/industry has a player in the game who is considered "too big to fail". What then? Considered by whom? The counter argument is would the industry be better off without Te Akau? Personally I think it would be. Just because they run an exemplar of an operation why should they be "levelled"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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