Chief Stipe Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 Colgan got 8 days. Perhaps he should appeal? This happens all the time in OZ and hardly raises an eyebrow! Brando looked unbalanced regardless! V Colgan (MOANA) - Admitted a charge of careless riding in that he permitted his mount MOANA to shift outwards near the 400 metres where there was insufficient room making contact with BRANDO which was unbalanced. After hearing submissions V Colgan was suspended by the Judicial Committee from the conclusion of racing on Saturday 23 January up to and including racing on Wednesday 10 February (8 national riding days) and in addition a fine of $1,000 was imposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All The Aces Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 The penalty is higher if the offence happens in a G1 race. Did he defend the charge? If so and found guilty an extra day is added. Also if your suspension record is poor over the last twelve months they can add extra for that also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 16, 2021 Author Share Posted January 16, 2021 31 minutes ago, All The Aces said: The penalty is higher if the offence happens in a G1 race. Did he defend the charge? If so and found guilty an extra day is added. Also if your suspension record is poor over the last twelve months they can add extra for that also. No he pleaded guilty. As I say all the good OZ Jockey's use that G-force on the bend to widen a gap. I'm not sure why Johnson tried to defend the gap as she was on a superior horse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted January 16, 2021 Share Posted January 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: No he pleaded guilty. As I say all the good OZ Jockey's use that G-force on the bend to widen a gap. I'm not sure why Johnson tried to defend the gap as she was on a superior horse. I watched that and thought the same. Why jockeys bump and knock their own horses round to keep someone else in is a mystery to me. Sure,maybe 20% of the time they may keep a horse in that may end up beating them,but the other 80% of the time it costs them. I remember James Mcdonald in a winning after race interview on a horse who had performed poorly the week before after being in a bumping duel,saying people underestimate how much that can effect a horses performance. It also must be a factor in future injuries suffered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 16, 2021 Author Share Posted January 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, the galah said: I watched that and thought the same. Why jockeys bump and knock their own horses round to keep someone else in is a mystery to me. Sure,maybe 20% of the time they may keep a horse in that may end up beating them,but the other 80% of the time it costs them. I remember James Mcdonald in a winning after race interview on a horse who had performed poorly the week before after being in a bumping duel,saying people underestimate how much that can effect a horses performance. It also must be a factor in future injuries suffered. Yep I agree. One thing in Danielle's defence, in what was a below average ride for her, I felt Brando contributed. At the end of the day they are still herd animals and a competitive colt often will fight back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Yes, good points. A rider who is now in Aus [ provincial] but rode a fair bit for me when he was here, was often to be found flanking the leader, or one out, two back. As the perfect position was always [ so I was told ] in behind the leader on the fence - never mind how much the poor creature had its head pulled around to be there - I asked him why he was so often in the open? He grinned, and said, the shortest way home is the one without a bump. You will notice too, in the Uk in particular, how often you will see horses ambling along miles away from anything else, no one seems to mind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 17, 2021 Author Share Posted January 17, 2021 8 minutes ago, Freda said: You will notice too, in the Uk in particular, how often you will see horses ambling along miles away from anything else, no one seems to mind. Yep doesn't matter if you are three wide without cover as long as you have your horse in a rhythm. It is only the really really good horses that can pick themselves up quickly and get back into it. Lonhro! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 26 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Yep doesn't matter if you are three wide without cover as long as you have your horse in a rhythm. It is only the really really good horses that can pick themselves up quickly and get back into it. Lonhro! Amazing win, still can't see how he wins on the turn to this day and watched it several times. THis is also amazing: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLB2.0 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: No he pleaded guilty. As I say all the good OZ Jockey's use that G-force on the bend to widen a gap. I'm not sure why Johnson tried to defend the gap as she was on a superior horse. Trying to keep an inferior horse in the pocket cost Brando a Group 1. Pretty sure Johnson's BF gave her a right talking to. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 17, 2021 Author Share Posted January 17, 2021 1 minute ago, SLB2.0 said: Trying to keep an inferior horse in the pocket cost Brando a Group 1. Pretty sure Johnson's BF gave her a right talking to. I agree to a point. But Lisa Allpress out thought her earlier in the race. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 29 minutes ago, SLB2.0 said: Trying to keep an inferior horse in the pocket cost Brando a Group 1. Pretty sure Johnson's BF gave her a right talking to. Let's hope he kisses and makes up too, and says "Well done" and commends the 4 winning rides by DJ. Kiss first , talk Later...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy connolly Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Yep doesn't matter if you are three wide without cover as long as you have your horse in a rhythm. It is only the really really good horses that can pick themselves up quickly and get back into it. Lonhro! Nonsense, the most proven way to get a horse beat is to stay more than two horse widths from the inside rail without a trail or cover. Even very good horses are beaten this way, this is why barrier draws are so important. Lonhro was also given a good run in transit by Beadman who knew how good Lonhro was and who knew how to ride Flemington. An Australian punter wagered 1 million to win 1.6 million off Lonhro that day. 1 hour ago, SLB2.0 said: Trying to keep an inferior horse in the pocket cost Brando a Group 1. More nonsense, the best way to lose the respect of your fellow jockeys is to let them do and go where they want, when they want, how they want. A bumping duel affects the bumper more than it does the bumpee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerina 2 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 The inconsistency is appalling.Vinnie Colgan suspended for improving Moana into a gap that through apparent competitive riding closed on him.How is that different to the rails run of Rock on Wood in the Zabeel Classic that closed on Ryan Elliot although Opie was spoken to.,no suspension.Given that these decisions take away a jockey’s ability to earn a living ,they need to be able to have professional help in the Stewards Room.I have been an avid follower of racing for 70 yrs and the verdicts handed out at times astound me. To me most careless riding charges are really misjudgements,a difference to reckless,and dangerous riding. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 17, 2021 Author Share Posted January 17, 2021 2 hours ago, billy connolly said: More nonsense, the best way to lose the respect of your fellow jockeys is to let them do and go where they want, when they want, how they want. A bumping duel affects the bumper more than it does the bumpee. The point is that closing the gap affected Danielle's mount's chances far more than than would have been the case if she had kept Brando balanced i.e. moved a half a horse width and avoided the contact. Which appears to be your point when you refer to bumpers and bumpees. Although I disagree as in my opinion either if unbalanced loses ground and momentum. 2 hours ago, billy connolly said: this is why barrier draws are so important. Barrier draws are not as important as many think they are. The statistics show that. 2 hours ago, billy connolly said: Nonsense, the most proven way to get a horse beat is to stay more than two horse widths from the inside rail without a trail or cover. I disagree. If you end up wide without cover keeping your horse in a steady energy saving rhythm can often negate the disadvantage. The alternative of using up your horse to charge forward in an often pointless attempt to get in closer is often worse. Lonhro may have had an easy trip for most of the journey. But the reality is he got hammered twice looking for racing room. Had to be pulled nearly to a standstill to get racing room and took time to get balanced in charged. It is a nonsense to suggest that Beadman planned it that way! Only good horses can get knocked down and pick themselves up again and win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All The Aces Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Danielle is riding very well but it was a below par ride on Brando. Her last two rides on the card were excellent though. The mistake she made on Brando was not following Lisa Allpress on Bonham around when she went forward. She would have got a lovely run on Bonham's back and then slingshot her in the straight. Instead she stayed back and Lisa Allpress and Bonham established a winning break on Brando. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 I believe draws are crucial in all racing, weather it be a sprint or a staying race, rather be tucked away on the fence than 2 or 3 wide the trip, anyday, I do find it surprising when you hear the odd comment, that the wide draw won't worry them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 17, 2021 Author Share Posted January 17, 2021 13 minutes ago, Shad said: I believe draws are crucial in all racing, weather it be a sprint or a staying race, rather be tucked away on the fence than 2 or 3 wide the trip, anyday, I do find it surprising when you hear the odd comment, that the wide draw won't worry them. Statistically it makes stuff all difference. Someone's good draw is anothers bad draw. Bonham drew 10. Brando drew 5. Avantage drew 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerina 2 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Getting back to V Colgan’s suspension.I have watched the replay two or three times ,am I wrong in saying he was chopped out of the gap he was heading for?It was obviously too small for the judiciary ,and Moana suffered lacerations,but can you or can’t you push into a gap.I saw Sam Collett do that on Covetina Bay in the Zabeel ,or push Opie out in that case.I would hate to go home from work being told don’t come back for 8 or 10 days ,and will also take $1000 of your money.!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 17, 2021 Author Share Posted January 17, 2021 11 minutes ago, Nerina 2 said: Getting back to V Colgan’s suspension.I have watched the replay two or three times ,am I wrong in saying he was chopped out of the gap he was heading for?It was obviously too small for the judiciary ,and Moana suffered lacerations,but can you or can’t you push into a gap.I saw Sam Collett do that on Covetina Bay in the Zabeel ,or push Opie out in that case.I would hate to go home from work being told don’t come back for 8 or 10 days ,and will also take $1000 of your money.!! Your view of the "incident" is the same as mine. Looks a decent sized gap to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerina 2 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Sorry the Covetina Bay incident was in the Rich Hill Mile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerina 2 Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 In the Stewards Room when a jockey is on the mat to hear the enquiry is it all over for them if they plead guilty.Do they ever argue their case? We all have had good and bad days,but for jockeys the bad days are very hard on their pockets it seems.I realise racing has to be safe ,but they have a handful of trouble at times.All in all they do a great job,and they have my full admiration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gammalite Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 34 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Your view of the "incident" is the same as mine. Looks a decent sized gap to me! My opinion is Moana is heading in a 'different ' direction to every other runner. Why should Danielle have to change her line because the suspended guy is coming out from behind that horse in front of it. Collision imminent and 'Insufficiently clear' to avoid contact seems certain. Guilty as charged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the galah Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 52 minutes ago, Nerina 2 said: Sorry the Covetina Bay incident was in the Rich Hill Mile. That Conventina bay run was a perfect example of how barging into a gap can effect a horses momentum. If you watch that video conventina bay took a good 120 metres to regain its momentum and make any ground,and then over the next and last 120m it gained 2 lengths on everything else. A bumping duel effects forward momentum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 No doubt a bumping duel affects momentum - for both parties. But also, give some thought to the potential damage caused to joints, tendons and muscles with sudden changes of direction and tempo - not to mention the confidence to put in, especially with a timid or delicate sort. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 And, have to say that clip of Lonhro still makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck. What a horse! I'm changing tack here, to the 'jockey' discussion..i.e Opie vs the rest..to give an example that even 'the best' aren't above scrutiny.. The ride on the black star in his last race was a tragedy - IMO. A top jock allows the grand old warhorse Grand Armee to canter-and-sprint in front, and even a champion can't run 600 in 30 secs. Judgement of pace is everything..and lacking often. I used to drum it into my apprentices, sent the younger ones home with a stopwatch and grilled them until I thought they had some idea. Jamie Bates was pretty effective in front, Jamie Bullard not so much, he always reckoned he hated being there..but was a competent and successful rider nevertheless. Andre Gillett - a leading apprentice and second only to Mark Sweeney one year - went to Aus later to ride work for Gai. My last pupil, Kim Lange [ now married to Damian Browne ] rang him to complain. 'The bitch,' she said, 'she's at me and at me about times'. Andre said, 'yeah, she annoyed me too, but , if Gai wants 14 and half to the furlong, that's what you do. If you don't, you get a bollocking. Listen to her, it's important ! ' he said..! Now, I can put a rider up and say, half speed from the 1400, home 600 in 45, and get a look of utter incomprehension. Seniors too. And, I have to say that the majority of the 'imports' that I have dealt with also have no idea whatsoever. When the apprentice mentor locally is one of the best judges of pace we have had, I really don't know what they do at apprentice school. Lisa Allpress , currently, is a shining example of getting it right much more often than most. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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