Chief Stipe Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Has anyone been doing some analysis on the effects of the Cambridge AWT on horse performance and trainer results? On the 5th of January Cambridge on the AWT had 11 trial heats with about 63 horses going round. On the 12th of January Matamata had 30 trial heats with 232 horses going round. Cambridge trainers Roger James, Murray Baker, Ben Foote and Ralph Manning (1) all had zero runners at Cambridge on the AWT but pitched up at Matamata. Do David Ellis and Lance O'Sullivan make better scones at Matamata? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 Well if you're not going to race on it I wouldn't either (that's coming eventually I know) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 17, 2021 Author Share Posted January 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, Mark D said: Well if you're not going to race on it I wouldn't either (that's coming eventually I know) But that logic doesn't bode well if you have replaced a couple of training surfaces for just the AWT. As in you are committed to racing on that surface and nowhere else. I wouldn't be surprised if they are finding the surface too hard and incorrect watering and grooming is occurring. The trial times are all over the place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 50 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Has anyone been doing some analysis on the effects of the Cambridge AWT on horse performance and trainer results? On the 5th of January Cambridge on the AWT had 11 trial heats with about 63 horses going round. On the 12th of January Matamata had 30 trial heats with 232 horses going round. Cambridge trainers Roger James, Murray Baker, Ben Foote and Ralph Manning (1) all had zero runners at Cambridge on the AWT but pitched up at Matamata. Do David Ellis and Lance O'Sullivan make better scones at Matamata? The real test will be when they start racing on it , then the following meetings to see how many horses utilize it regularly , as in are competitive on the surface . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark D Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 54 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: But that logic doesn't bode well if you have replaced a couple of training surfaces for just the AWT. As in you are committed to racing on that surface and nowhere else. I wouldn't be surprised if they are finding the surface too hard and incorrect watering and grooming is occurring. The trial times are all over the place. The AWT never made sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 24 minutes ago, Mark D said: The AWT never made sense. And never will, the rumour is the Toowoomba boys are pissing themselves.....no one called them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 18, 2021 Author Share Posted January 18, 2021 Correct me if I'm wrong but.... Surely the business case (if there was one) for Cambridge budgeted on income from trials based on numbers of starters. If they are driving down the road to Matamata surely that is lost revenue? If the AWT is only going to be useful during the winter months doesn't that reduce the potential to earn revenue to cover costs/ROI? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 53 minutes ago, Mark D said: The AWT never made sense. When there doesn't have to be any commercial or operational analysis behind any of the decisions they make then nothing does 3 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Correct me if I'm wrong but.... Surely the business case (if there was one) for Cambridge budgeted on income from trials based on numbers of starters. If they are driving down the road to Matamata surely that is lost revenue? If the AWT is only going to be useful during the winter months doesn't that reduce the potential to earn revenue to cover costs/ROI? Business case these guys are you for real CS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 18, 2021 Author Share Posted January 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, Huey said: Business case these guys are you for real CS? Unlike the other two cabs off the rank Cambridge were first and would have had to provide some form of business case for the PGF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Centaur Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Has anyone been doing some analysis on the effects of the Cambridge AWT on horse performance and trainer results? On the 5th of January Cambridge on the AWT had 11 trial heats with about 63 horses going round. On the 12th of January Matamata had 30 trial heats with 232 horses going round. Cambridge trainers Roger James, Murray Baker, Ben Foote and Ralph Manning (1) all had zero runners at Cambridge on the AWT but pitched up at Matamata. Do David Ellis and Lance O'Sullivan make better scones at Matamata? So far only 2 horses have been subsequent winners from those using the track for trials. Ripper of a Dream and Our Wonderland. Edited January 18, 2021 by The Centaur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 18, 2021 Author Share Posted January 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, The Centaur said: So far only 2 horses have been subsequent winners from those using the track for trials. Ripper of a Dream and Our Wonderland. Thanks. Khufu was an impressive trial winner on it but didn't follow up with that form on grass on race day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said: Thanks. Khufu was an impressive trial winner on it but didn't follow up with that form on grass on race day. Went amiss - unfortunately - was my understanding. Would be very happy to find out the 'word' was wrong, he looks an outstanding sort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freda Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 3 hours ago, Chief Stipe said: Unlike the other two cabs off the rank Cambridge were first and would have had to provide some form of business case for the PGF. I think they funded a fair portion themselves. The irrigation comment earlier- these tracks are not supposed to need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Freda said: The irrigation comment earlier- these tracks are not supposed to need it. Still think it's mad putting in a polytrack in NZ without a high calibre irrigation system. Time will tell I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curious Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 19 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said: And never will, the rumour is the Toowoomba boys are pissing themselves.....no one called them. Didn't really need to call ..... Synthetic Surface Gets Thumbs Down in Australia Sponsored by: by Paulick Report Staff | 06.30.2013 | 2:36pm Polytrack Australian taxpayers shelled out $20 million for an artificial surface at Clifford Park in Toowoomba four years ago, and will now be paying $7 million to switch back to grass. The Racing Queensland board pushed for switch to synthetic in hopes it would be easier to manage during droughts, but now officials say the decision is one of many made by the former Labor-aligned board that is now under investigation. Current chief executive Adam Carter says officials believe the surface was put in without proper drainage or layering systems, and have discovered that most documentation related to the surface switch was missing. Fields have dropped 30 percent, and wagering at Clifford has fallen 25 percent in the last two years due to the surface. “Synthetic tracks don't work overseas and in Toowoomba, where the temperature can go from the low digits to 40C, it couldn't work because it would be gluey in the summer and hard as bitumen in the winter,” said trainer Darryl Gollan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 18, 2021 Author Share Posted January 18, 2021 I heard a story from up Cambridge way. Not sure if it is true or not but a Dad and his toddler were standing on the new AWT. Dad was talking to someone and as toddler's do they got a bit bored. The toddler started digging and pushing the polyfill round - "Daddy look look - I've found a road!" Only had to go down a few inches. Perhaps they haven't put enough on it or it hasn't been compacted? Just had a thought if trainers don't want to use it during the summer perhaps they could sweep the fill off and use the track as a Go-cart race track? TAB NZ would offer books on that - they do on everything else! Porous Macadam = asphalt = what hard court tennis courts are made of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 18, 2021 Author Share Posted January 18, 2021 20 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said: And never will, the rumour is the Toowoomba boys are pissing themselves.....no one called them. Joe - the Sunshine Coast Turf Club put in the same type of track - branded Cushion Track (essentially the same as Polytrack). Is that still in operation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 18, 2021 Author Share Posted January 18, 2021 Bart Cummings, David Hayes and John O'Shea were strong opponents of the Toowoomba Track. But who would listen to those average trainers! Where have we heard comments like Bob Bentley's before?! -------------------------------- The Downs and Southwest Trainers and Owners group is warning of tough times ahead because of the synthetic surface. The Trainers and Owners group had proposed an on-site water management plan that could see waste-water from the Watalla facility used to water the current grass surface. The group says it also had the support of high-profile trainers Bart Cummings, David Hayes and John O'Shea in their battle against the installation of the artificial track. Group President John Dann says while he's accepted the decision some trainers have already made up their minds to leave, and have grave fears for the future of racing in the city, "if the cushion track stays in here racing will cease to happen in the next few years...Toowoomba will go to a country status track, they'll lose their TAB coverage...There's trainers here that are leaving". Bob Bentley, Chairman of Queensland Racing doesn't share the pessimism of the Trainers and Owners group, "the members have now spoken, so we'll get on with the job. There was a lot of concern in people's minds because they hadn't read the material, they'd been listening to hearsay and innuendo. There's no proof of some of the scaremongering that went on." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 18, 2021 Author Share Posted January 18, 2021 Another thought thinking ahead. A wise contingency would be to make sure that if the polyfill surface doesn't work that you design and install the base so you can put a Strathayr surface over the top in the future. Mind you it would be a problem doing that at Awapuni as if you go too deep there you are below the tide line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 47 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said: Joe - the Sunshine Coast Turf Club put in the same type of track - branded Cushion Track (essentially the same as Polytrack). Is that still in operation? Not for racing Chief, that went the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bloggs Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 Wouldn't you think as an Aussie Bernard would have consulted his countrymen on the cock ups here? Pakenham is going to go the same way as Geelong, you wait, so will Ballarat, it makes me think, [dangerous] was there a little incentive somewhere along the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 18, 2021 Author Share Posted January 18, 2021 4 minutes ago, Joe Bloggs said: Wouldn't you think as an Aussie Bernard would have consulted his countrymen on the cock ups here? Pakenham is going to go the same way as Geelong, you wait, so will Ballarat, it makes me think, [dangerous] was there a little incentive somewhere along the line. Well you would have that between Bernie and Alasdair with their Racing Victoria "experience" and "contacts" that they would have been across it! Especially when Racing Victoria has made it very clear that there would be no more than TWO synthetic tracks RACED on in the State of Victoria! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomates Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 In the end these tracks are going in , hell or high water , i fear tho that it will be like watching a car crash in slow motion . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey Posted January 18, 2021 Share Posted January 18, 2021 The trouble is in Racing in this country , the people running the sport have to do things like this (build an AWT) to truly know how hopeless they are, like the dates & calendar they have to mess it up otherwise you wouldnt know they didn't know much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Stipe Posted January 18, 2021 Author Share Posted January 18, 2021 33 minutes ago, nomates said: In the end these tracks are going in , hell or high water , i fear tho that it will be like watching a car crash in slow motion . I don't think it will be slow motion. Hell if what is happening with the trial fields in the Waikato then it is happening at quite a momentum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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