Old Topic on Industry Funding.

[Chief Stipe]

7 hours ago, Reefton said:

To be fair Pitty(as he says) chases the best money and usually that is at Riccarton in the south.  If there is a feature meeting he will go elsewhere obviously and I imagine will have a good team in at Wingatui on Friday.  He makes it quite clear that Riccarton pisses him off with its irrigation policies and incompetent implantation of them resulting in lanes but that of course is the idiot idea of plastering water on inconsistently and too close to raceday.  As a small scale owner of his I get pissed off too when the continual excuse of getting onto the wrong part of the Riccarton track is trotted out (and before anyone blames the jockeys Pitty legs up one of them at Cup time was one of NZ's very best and the same thing happened)

Has your horse had soundness issues?

[Chief Stipe]

7 hours ago, Reefton said:

To be fair Pitty(as he says) chases the best money and usually that is at Riccarton in the south.  If there is a feature meeting he will go elsewhere obviously and I imagine will have a good team in at Wingatui on Friday.  He makes it quite clear that Riccarton pisses him off with its irrigation policies and incompetent implantation of them resulting in lanes but that of course is the idiot idea of plastering water on inconsistently and too close to raceday.  As a small scale owner of his I get pissed off too when the continual excuse of getting onto the wrong part of the Riccarton track is trotted out (and before anyone blames the jockeys Pitty legs up one of them at Cup time was one of NZ's very best and the same thing happened)

At least we all agree (even Pitty) that the Riccarton track is more often than not is crap on raceday.

If as you and Pitty constantly bang on about believe that irrigation is the problem why has that problem been fixed?

However from the observations I and others have made it doesn't seem to the cause of the problem.

What @billy connolly describes matches what @Freda has posted.  Clearly it isn't an irrigation problem.

So where is the money coming from to fix the South Islands Premier Track?

When will it be fixed?

Only 5 months to Guineas Day and Cup Week.  Time is running out especially if you want to use machinery without further stuffing the soil and turf.

[Pitman]

50 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

Has your horse had soundness issues?

No it hasn’t it needs firm underfoot conditions

[Chief Stipe]

20 minutes ago, Pitman said:

No it hasn’t it needs firm underfoot conditions

Great so you will have at least one horse racing on the AWT.

[Huey]

16 hours ago, barryb said:

Ok so tell me how you improve the race fields?. Upgrading tracks would do diddly shit for improving race fields or much else for that matter. Having a flash track to race on doesn't in the slightest make me want to go and buy a more expensive yearling. In providing the product the owner must get looked after first & tracks/fields will follow. Any business that ignores the product supplier and invests in flash shop fronts is soon out of business, looking after the supplier whom is also one of your main product purchasers is illogical not to do.

 

 

For me making sure you're horse is getting the opportunity to perform to the best of its abilities on a safe, unbiased track/surface (nothing worse than lane racing or concerns about the safety of your pride and joy) is absolutely paramount in driving the purchase decision for another horse. Next would be the programming , calendar & handicapping would be of the the utmost importance. All of these(if done right) should also generate wagering on the product surely? 

If you want the fancy dining etc why don't you take your tablet or laptop and go and watch your horse race while eating out  in a Michelin Star restaurant? 

[Thomass]

Some ABSOLUTELY OUTSTANDING 'ideas' here boyzngals...

A lass...thats all they'll ever be...if you don't put your hands up for higher office

Do that and the hoi pill oy can vote as to whether you have the gravitas they crave...

...or ya might as well piss into the idiot wind

[Huey]

Just now, Thomass said:

Some ABSOLUTELY OUTSTANDING 'ideas' here boyzngals...

A lass...thats all they'll ever be...if you don't put your hands up for higher office

Do that and the hoi pill oy can vote as to whether you have the gravitas they crave...

...or ya might as well piss into the idiot wind

Don't agree, you'll never get the chance in NZ racing circles unless youre in the club. Best you can hope for is having the hoi pill take your ideas as their own.

[Chief Stipe]

34 minutes ago, Thomass said:

Some ABSOLUTELY OUTSTANDING 'ideas' here boyzngals...

A lass...thats all they'll ever be...if you don't put your hands up for higher office

Do that and the hoi pill oy can vote as to whether you have the gravitas they crave...

...or ya might as well piss into the idiot wind

I guess that explains your Twitter account.

[Chief Stipe]

35 minutes ago, Huey said:

If you want the fancy dining etc why don't you take your tablet or laptop and go and watch your horse race while eating out  in a Michelin Star restaurant? 

Or go down market and eat with Little Leo at HQ.

[barryb]

32 minutes ago, Huey said:

For me making sure you're horse is getting the opportunity to perform to the best of its abilities on a safe, unbiased track/surface (nothing worse than lane racing or concerns about the safety of your pride and joy) is absolutely paramount in driving the purchase decision for another horse. Next would be the programming , calendar & handicapping would be of the the utmost importance. All of these(if done right) should also generate wagering on the product surely? 

So you would rate all those things above getting a return?.

I gave the solution above, reduce stakes for all races above $100k, raise the bottom end, accpet we are a feeder for Aus & the majority will be happy. Frees up plenty for investment into tracks, facilities etc.

[Thomass]

1 minute ago, Chief Stipe said:

I guess that explains your Twitter account.

Wellll...that lets 'Industry Big Wigs' know WTF is going on under their very big wig noses....because they've got covid like no smell symptoms...

Its direct and instant...

All you've achieved is RSI of your right wrist and roids @ your derriere...

Or are you a left footer?

[Chief Stipe]

13 minutes ago, Thomass said:

Wellll...that lets 'Industry Big Wigs' know WTF is going on under their very big wig noses....because they've got covid like no smell symptoms...

Its direct and instant...

All you've achieved is RSI of your right wrist and roids @ your derriere...

Or are you a left footer?

As pointless as you running for office in the industry.

[Huey]

59 minutes ago, barryb said:

So you would rate all those things above getting a return?.

I gave the solution above, reduce stakes for all races above $100k, raise the bottom end, accpet we are a feeder for Aus & the majority will be happy. Frees up plenty for investment into tracks, facilities etc.

No but I rate them as far more important than fancy facilities for owners, not to mention they are integral parts of the sport with regards to getting a return. 

I may have missed the first part of your post, but I tought you were saying you'd prefer better facilities for owners or consider them more important than the tracks etc?

[Freda]

2 minutes ago, Huey said:

No but I rate them as far more important than fancy facilities for owners, not to mention they are integral parts of the sport with regards to getting a return. 

I may have missed the first part of your post, but I tought you were saying you'd prefer better facilities for owners or consider them more important than the tracks etc?

I stand to be corrected - sorry if I've jumped in here - but I think, in saying that owners need to be looked after better,  Barryb isn't meaning flash facilities;  rather, that owners need to be appreciated, respected, and not hammered in the pocket all the time.

[barryb]

11 minutes ago, Freda said:

I stand to be corrected - sorry if I've jumped in here - but I think, in saying that owners need to be looked after better,  Barryb isn't meaning flash facilities;  rather, that owners need to be appreciated, respected, and not hammered in the pocket all the time.

Correct Freda.

[Chief Stipe]

15 minutes ago, Freda said:

I stand to be corrected - sorry if I've jumped in here - but I think, in saying that owners need to be looked after better,  Barryb isn't meaning flash facilities;  rather, that owners need to be appreciated, respected, and not hammered in the pocket all the time.

But who "hammers them in the pocket all the time"?  Wouldn't be trainers would it?

[Huey]

38 minutes ago, Freda said:

I stand to be corrected - sorry if I've jumped in here - but I think, in saying that owners need to be looked after better,  Barryb isn't meaning flash facilities;  rather, that owners need to be appreciated, respected, and not hammered in the pocket all the time.

and I couldn't agree more, but what I'm saying is by not being concerned about all those facets I've stated youre straight up not respecting the owner are you?

[Reefton]

5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Has your horse had soundness issues?

only you the defender of pissing water all over the course(well not actually all over - more like on certain strips) could discern that from the posting

The horse wanted decent ground but ended up on the fence on wet ground while two fairly high class two year olds (Avonello and Follow your Dreams) were out in the middle of the track on the better stuff.  Not that she would have beaten them anyway but it did allow her to be swamped by a couple of others also out wide in the last 50 metres.  Cost her a stakes placing and her owner(not me - I only lease a share) potentially quite a bit in terms of residual value.

[Pitman]

4 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Great so you will have at least one horse racing on the AWT.

Not necessarily, they are going to be industry days only, our stable and our owners prefer to target feature days racing, have a look at our stakes money won.

[Chief Stipe]

2 hours ago, Pitman said:

Not necessarily, they are going to be industry days only, our stable and our owners prefer to target feature days racing, have a look at our stakes money won.

So the AWT should be officially named "Pitmans Private Training and Stake Subsidisation Track".

[Pitman]

5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

So the AWT should be officially named "Pitmans Private Training and Stake Subsidisation Track".

Don't know about that we already have our own property with a track on it, we don't get any subsidy for having that!

[Chief Stipe]

19 hours ago, Reefton said:

only you the defender of pissing water all over the course(well not actually all over - more like on certain strips) could discern that from the posting

You are being disingenuous Reefton.  I have always said that inconsistent irrigation is a symptom not the cause of the issues.  At least we agree that there ARE serious issues with the Riccarton Turf Track.

The questions that you should be joining me in asking, not fruitlessly banging on about not irrigating the track, is what is the plan to fix the problem and when will it be done!!

The major flaw in Pitty's argument which you support is what happens when you don't irrigate?  The answer is quite simple really you have no green grass.  The steeplechase track is evidence of that.

19 hours ago, Reefton said:

The horse wanted decent ground but ended up on the fence on wet ground while two fairly high class two year olds (Avonello and Follow your Dreams) were out in the middle of the track on the better stuff.  Not that she would have beaten them anyway but it did allow her to be swamped by a couple of others also out wide in the last 50 metres.  Cost her a stakes placing and her owner(not me - I only lease a share) potentially quite a bit in terms of residual value.

You are blaming the irrigation and not accepting the fact that she wasn't up to it.  Based on the form from the race she achieved the best possible position based on her ability.  

What was Pitty's excuse last start in a relatively weak Listed Race on her favoured Good 3 track where she ran 14 lengths last?

Are you setting her up for the AWT?  If she does like a firm track why bring her into work late autumn going into the winter when we all know that the Riccarton Turf turns to a bog.

[Reefton]

5 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

  I have always said that inconsistent irrigation is a symptom not the cause of the issues

The major flaw in Pitty's argument which you support is what happens when you don't irrigate?  The answer is quite simple really you have no green grass.  The steeplechase track is evidence of that.

You are blaming the irrigation and not accepting the fact that she wasn't up to it.  Based on the form from the race she achieved the best possible position based on her ability.  

What was Pitty's excuse last start in a relatively weak Listed Race on her favoured Good 3 track where she ran 14 lengths last?

Are you setting her up for the AWT?  If she does like a firm track why bring her into work late autumn going into the winter when we all know that the Riccarton Turf turns to a bog.

You really are an idiot

'symptom not the cause'?  A symptom arises from and is an indicator of a problem.  How can irrigation or lack thereof be a symptom?  It is either a cause or it is not a cause - it is not a symptom

'The major flaw in Pitty's argument which you support is what happens when you don't irrigate?'  Nobody said they shouldn't irrigate.  What they(MRP) have said is they should not irrigate so close to raceday and in particular not with irrigation gear that is clearly not up to it(as evidenced by the fact that it creates lanes on the track - which have been apparent virtually every day they have raced there since Cup day).  I might add it was irrigation gear that was not up to it that caused the Judy Lawson accident as well and do we need reminding who was in control of that track? 

'You are blaming the irrigation and not accepting the fact that she wasn't up to it.  Based on the form from the race she achieved the best possible position based on her ability.'  Look at her prior form (and the times she had been running for her last 600m) and the race itself.   In fact it is my view that that hard race at Riccarton that day has possibly soured her on racing altogether as evidenced by her Autumn form.  She had been competitive with Avonello and Follow your Dreams prior but on the face of it was clearly inferior that day.  I have never seen a horse so awash with sweat as she was afterwards (and I have seen plenty) and she had clearly tried her heart out.  I suspect(and I hope to hell I am wrong) she has a limited future as a racing proposition after the effect of that effort and that pisses me off as well as we have spent a lot of money to get her to that stage.

'What was Pitty's excuse last start in a relatively weak Listed Race on her favoured Good 3 track where she ran 14 lengths last?'    Don't you know how those margins work?  She didn't run 14.1 lengths last she was 14.1 lengths from the winner you plonker.  He didn't have any excuse but she was not persevered with from the 400m when she was clearly beaten and as I said the state of the Riccarton track has most likely ruined her as a racing proposition.  She will probably have a spring prep but I am dubious about what lies ahead.  Disappointing given how much she promised but hey that is racehorses. 

'Are you setting her up for the AWT?  If she does like a firm track why bring her into work late autumn going into the winter when we all know that the Riccarton Turf turns to a bog.'  As I have said I doubt she has a future as a result of that hard run so I doubt she is being set for anything.  But  this 'why bring her into work in late Autumn?' question - do you think it takes a couple of weeks to bring a horse up to race fitness?  She was been in work since late January with that specific race in mind based on the promise she showed in the spring.  You clearly know absolutely zero about training horses which leads me to my next question - How many winners have you trained Son?  Because I would say you have a bloody cheek questioning how Michael Pitman rates, trains and places his horses given he has trained almost 2000 in his time AND won a couple of Premierships(the only Southerner to do so in the modern era).

You have told us often enough about your turf management degree and bagged the efforts of farmers and amateur trackmen all the way well let me point out that they had all the experts attend to the Riccarton track 20 or 25 years ago and look how well that has gone .  Rarely in the interim has it been consistently up to scratch although this last 6-8 months has been an absolute disaster.  But if there is a problem with that track then listening to 'experts' like you with a heap of letters after their name is as much the cause as anything.  Riccarton reacted the same way every track has reacted to the attention of these 'experts' - turned into a frigging disaster.    

I am almost getting to the stage of hoping the AWT at Riccarton is a raging success if only to shut you up.

[Chief Stipe]

15 hours ago, Reefton said:

symptom not the cause'?  A symptom arises from and is an indicator of a problem.  How can irrigation or lack thereof be a symptom?  It is either a cause or it is not a cause - it is not a symptom

I'll resist getting into name calling.  The need to irrigate the way they do is symptomatic of an underlying problem or cause.  The unven water distribution is not caused by irrigation but the underlying problem.

15 hours ago, Reefton said:

But  this 'why bring her into work in late Autumn?' question - do you think it takes a couple of weeks to bring a horse up to race fitness?

I meant race in late Autumn and you know that.  You were rolling the dice that the track would be suitable.

 

[Pitman]

3 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

I'll resist getting into name calling.  The need to irrigate the way they do is symptomatic of an underlying problem or cause.  The unven water distribution is not caused by irrigation but the underlying problem.

Can I ask an honest easy answered question stipe

WHEN WAS THE LAST TIME YOU STEPPED FOOT ON THE RICCARTON COURSE PROPER?