Brodie Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 2 minutes ago, Spatchcock said: were you on course? Why would I be oncourse? Was out helping a Christchurch hospitality business! Was it worth being oncourse? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 6 hours ago, Dougie said: Curious to see the turnover figures for the whole meeting, The Race itself was on Sky 1 in Australia but the rest on Sky 2 and the pools were small for all races, crowd on TV looked decent but whether they were actual punters is a different story. Will most of the crowd at Cambridge last night be there next meeting, what are the odds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 17 hours ago, Brodie said: Seems a bit unfair to my mind! Great to see things being tried to improve harness racing but jury out on whether it does anything apart from shuffling some money around the corporates or wealthy owners! Good publicity for this GRINS outfit as well I suppose! Will it introduce anyone new enthusiasts to racing in NZ? Probably not but it is something different and something to watch on Easter Eve! Wondering why Ozzie have plenty of meetings on Easter Good Friday and we have NO MEETINGS! We must be a lot more Religious! Do we really need racing every day in any situation, one day we say there is too much then when there is none we question why not. For the first time in history our local 4 square is open on good friday, no advertising on tv and radio today, how long before we do ? I often wonder though why non religious people get a holiday as the holiday is a religious day for religious people, what a conundrum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterthepunter Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Brodie said: very interesting that Mark Purdon got a hefty fine and a pretty long suspension from driving! what joke purdon will be laughing at 2500k fine got 20k for driving it and 40k for training it works hard so be looking for a holiday 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 Right then, now that it is all over can someone explain something to me. This is a serious question. I 'm not knocking the race, there are just aspects of it I can't get my head around. The winner got $340,000, after deductions for trainer and driver. So roughly $170,000 each for the slot holder and connections, assuming it was a 50/50 split, although since it was the hot fav if I was the connections I would probably have asked for a 70/30 split. But assuming it was 50/50 the slot holder made a $95,000 profit for their investment. About a 120% return on their investment, so good work if you can get it. After deductions the second placegetter ended up with $106,250; $53,125 each for slot holder and connections. Slotholder only lost $21,875. Better luck next year. Third placegetter $36,125 for each of slotholder and connections. So slot holder lost $38,875. And so it goes as we go down to the also rans where the slot holders lost about $50,000 each. In what way does this make any sort of business sense for the slot holders? Only one of the 10 of them had any chance of showing a profit, and if this year's winning slot holder doesn't have a horse run in the first two for either of the next two years they will end up losing money overall. It was also interesting that the All Stars didn't purchase a slot. You would have thought they had every chance of winning the race and ending up with all the winning stake. Perhaps they thought it was a bad business proposition. For the connections of the winner and placegetters it was basically the same as racing in a $300,000 race. As I say, I'm not a big trotting follower these days, and I wouldn't have known the race even existed if I hadn't looked on here, and I may be missing something totally, but I just don't get the business sense in all this. Why would 10 groups of people invest in a something that they were 90% guaranteed to lose money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 12 hours ago, Brodie said: Mustve been a helluva lot of very late money? Just before close there was 19k in the win and 11k place but turnover on the tote was poor for all of the hype! I saw those figures as well just before the close and thought it was pretty poor. I checked again during the running and it had ended up with about $51,000. Not much really. I imagine Riverton would be disappointed tomorrow if they didn't get that for their Cup race. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 12 hours ago, Gammalite said: Don't think people have to bet to take an interest Brodster. A lot of people are happy to see good racing from quality horses. like example. It's hard to get a bet on Sundees Son or Akuta , but still great to see them race. .. Very true. And I didn't have a bet on the race myself, just watched it out of interest. However, the hard cold facts are that it is the punters who provide the races for other enthusiasts just to sit back and watch without any financial involvement. Without punters there would be no racing, we should never lose sight of that fact. I'm much happier getting a $10 winner in a maiden race than a $2 winner in a $1m race. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 The Race was ok as a spectacle but would prefer to see it run as a mobile 3200m with 100K for the leader at the winning post for the second and third laps and the balance for the stake. The race would be more entertaining with moves made during the race for the sprinters and the back runners would have some chance because of the work being done by the leaders. You would effectively have three races within a race. None of this lead all the way on a leaders biased track bullshit we get now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 19 minutes ago, Doomed said: Right then, now that it is all over can someone explain something to me. This is a serious question. I 'm not knocking the race, there are just aspects of it I can't get my head around. The winner got $340,000, after deductions for trainer and driver. So roughly $170,000 each for the slot holder and connections, assuming it was a 50/50 split, although since it was the hot fav if I was the connections I would probably have asked for a 70/30 split. But assuming it was 50/50 the slot holder made a $95,000 profit for their investment. About a 120% return on their investment, so good work if you can get it. After deductions the second placegetter ended up with $106,250; $53,125 each for slot holder and connections. Slotholder only lost $21,875. Better luck next year. Third placegetter $36,125 for each of slotholder and connections. So slot holder lost $38,875. And so it goes as we go down to the also rans where the slot holders lost about $50,000 each. In what way does this make any sort of business sense for the slot holders? Only one of the 10 of them had any chance of showing a profit, and if this year's winning slot holder doesn't have a horse run in the first two for either of the next two years they will end up losing money overall. It was also interesting that the All Stars didn't purchase a slot. You would have thought they had every chance of winning the race and ending up with all the winning stake. Perhaps they thought it was a bad business proposition. For the connections of the winner and placegetters it was basically the same as racing in a $300,000 race. As I say, I'm not a big trotting follower these days, and I wouldn't have known the race even existed if I hadn't looked on here, and I may be missing something totally, but I just don't get the business sense in all this. Why would 10 groups of people invest in a something that they were 90% guaranteed to lose money. Always gunna be the way, if you have a big winner then it's always gunna be funded by lots of losers, From a racing viewpoint the big stakes do add credibility to racing, they are all trying, one wonders if they got rid of appearance money beyond say fifth if the racing would be better in all classes. As for the turnover I'd say 50 thousand is probably not bad for a race at Cambridge, I dont think Riverton will get that much tomorrow, maybe I'm wrong. A big percentage of the betting was on Self Assured, reason being most thought he would win turned out he did, one thing the TAB have to stop doing is restricting large punters betting fixed odds, should be accepting all bets, it's up to them set or adjust the odds as fair play as invariably the house usually wins more than the punter 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomed Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 19 minutes ago, mikeynz said: Always gunna be the way, if you have a big winner then it's always gunna be funded by lots of losers, You might have to elaborate on that one for me Mikey. Can you mention for me some of the other big races where everyone but the winner is going to loss money? I have no idea what nomination and accpetance fees are like in the trots, I looked on the HRNZ website but couldn't find fees listed anywhere for any race. But I don't know of any other race where the stake is put up by participants who all know they will lose money if they don't win. Race stakes are usually funded by turnover, in one way or the other. That's why some of us were interested in the turnover. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 1 hour ago, mikeynz said: Do we really need racing every day in any situation, one day we say there is too much then when there is none we question why not. For the first time in history our local 4 square is open on good friday, no advertising on tv and radio today, how long before we do ? I often wonder though why non religious people get a holiday as the holiday is a religious day for religious people, what a conundrum. To be fair many of the holidays have very little meaning to us Mikey! This new public holiday that Labour is bringing in matariki or something like that is not needed, especially at the moment with business struggling! No we probably dont need racing every day but was just pointing out the more enterprising the Australians are allowed to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 29 minutes ago, mikeynz said: one thing the TAB have to stop doing is restricting large punters betting fixed odds, should be accepting all bets, it's up to them set or adjust the odds as fair play as invariably the house usually wins more than the punter Unfortunately there are some smart punters out there with means who are able to beat the house, It is not really that hard if you know what you are doing. It would be quite easy to win many millions a year with no holds barred betting as the bookies make many mistakes with their odds. There have to be restrictions or there will be no payouts for the industry. The New Zealand pool of money is simply not big enough to allow no restrictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 “The Race by Grins” on the face of it was advertising for this GRINS drinks company that personally had never heard of before! The funding of this race to my mind did not make much sense financially for owners being almost certainly a way to lose money. I could not see how some of those starters were ever going to win against the AllStar horses. Stylish Memphis even though she drew one was always going to struggle as she has not been beating much in Oz, and mares struggle against the boys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeynz Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Doomed said: You might have to elaborate on that one for me Mikey. Can you mention for me some of the other big races where everyone but the winner is going to loss money? I have no idea what nomination and accpetance fees are like in the trots, I looked on the HRNZ website but couldn't find fees listed anywhere for any race. But I don't know of any other race where the stake is put up by participants who all know they will lose money if they don't win. Race stakes are usually funded by turnover, in one way or the other. That's why some of us were interested in the turnover. I guess when you look at concept it does seem odd that 90% are going to lose, on this one you have a point, spose if you look at it another way if you do have 9 sponsors with 75000 who can afford to lose then what a great way to sponsor harness racing. Would be interesting to see how the turnover went, wouldn't be that massive, Cambridge never is. Edited April 14, 2022 by mikeynz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMark Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 13 hours ago, Brodie said: Southwind Ardern is not the same horse under Mangos training compared to when AllStars had him last year! The Ozzie horse went phenomenal and is certainly a rising star by the look of it. At least it was put into the race, the ones at the back had no show unfortunately ! You said earlier you would rather watch a maiden event over last night's spectacle? Are you serious, And the Ozzie horse majestic cruiser I'd a rising star? Lol he's a older horse that's had over 100 starts, you say rising star. You are so full of bs your eyes are very brown. You are a complete joke 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 2 minutes ago, MarkyMark said: You said earlier you would rather watch a maiden event over last night's spectacle? Are you serious, And the Ozzie horse majestic cruiser I'd a rising star? Lol he's a older horse that's had over 100 starts, you say rising star. You are so full of bs your eyes are very brown. You are a complete joke If you are looking at this from a punting point of view which Brodie always is, I would have to agree a maiden looks much more attractive than an even open class where you can not predict the leader, moves in the race etc with as much certainty. But as a spectacle it is quite exciting and the hype surrounding it good for the sport. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 10 minutes ago, Nowornever said: Unfortunately there are some smart punters out there with means who are able to beat the house, It is not really that hard if you know what you are doing. It would be quite easy to win many millions a year with no holds barred betting as the bookies make many mistakes with their odds. There have to be restrictions or there will be no payouts for the industry. The New Zealand pool of money is simply not big enough to allow no restrictions. The restrictions on punters is a handbrake to harness racing. Why dont the TAB advertise the fact that they will only accept bets from losing punters and be transparent. When they restrict punters to netting $20 on a Top 2 or Top 4 bet then they may as well get rid of the option. The TAB is a gambling agency that offers odds but only to people they want to! At the end of the day they are causing more harm than good as they are not encouraging new punters to the industry and without the punters, racing is going to die. They may well restrict winning punters from winning large amounts however they will never stop them from winning and they are driving people off the industry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMark Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 1 minute ago, Nowornever said: If you are looking at this from a punting point of view which Brodie always is, I would have to agree a maiden looks much more attractive than an even open class where you can not predict the leader, moves in the race etc with as much certainty. But as a spectacle it is quite exciting and the hype surrounding it good for the sport. That's why I say spectacle. I didn't bet on the race, but it had me watching. I'm pretty sure I heard I could be wrong, but they might have broken the track record. Was a great watch with good horses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 Just now, Brodie said: The restrictions on punters is a handbrake to harness racing. Why dont the TAB advertise the fact that they will only accept bets from losing punters and be transparent. When they restrict punters to netting $20 on a Top 2 or Top 4 bet then they may as well get rid of the option. The TAB is a gambling agency that offers odds but only to people they want to! At the end of the day they are causing more harm than good as they are not encouraging new punters to the industry and without the punters, racing is going to die. They may well restrict winning punters from winning large amounts however they will never stop them from winning and they are driving people off the industry Yes I agree the limits should be higher. Why not make it so you can at least win 2K a race without restrictions. I can see why they are doing it but not being able to get a $20 bet on is a joke. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMark Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 4 minutes ago, Brodie said: The restrictions on punters is a handbrake to harness racing. Why dont the TAB advertise the fact that they will only accept bets from losing punters and be transparent. When they restrict punters to netting $20 on a Top 2 or Top 4 bet then they may as well get rid of the option. The TAB is a gambling agency that offers odds but only to people they want to! At the end of the day they are causing more harm than good as they are not encouraging new punters to the industry and without the punters, racing is going to die. They may well restrict winning punters from winning large amounts however they will never stop them from winning and they are driving people off the industry Then bet on the tote, or through store, surely that solution is just common sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 10 minutes ago, MarkyMark said: You said earlier you would rather watch a maiden event over last night's spectacle? Are you serious, And the Ozzie horse majestic cruiser I'd a rising star? Lol he's a older horse that's had over 100 starts, you say rising star. You are so full of bs your eyes are very brown. You are a complete joke Yes of course I would rather watch a non winners race as I would more likely have had an investment on it, as I would never have one on “The Race by Grins”. Rising Star I didnt think had to be a young horse does it????? I am pleased you get some humour from “The Brodster” we sure need it after the last couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 1 minute ago, Nowornever said: Yes I agree the limits should be higher. Why not make it so you can at least win 2K a race without restrictions. I can see why they are doing it but not being able to get a $20 bet on is a joke. It is not getting $20 on, it is netting $20 profit lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brodie Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 2 minutes ago, MarkyMark said: Then bet on the tote, or through store, surely that solution is just common sense Are you serious Marky? So prey tell us all how putting $2k or so into a tote pool of say $8k is going to be the answer???????? Yeah a lot of common sense in your statement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowornever Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 Just now, Brodie said: It is not getting $20 on, it is netting $20 profit lol You think you have got problems how about not being able to win $2.95 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMark Posted April 14, 2022 Share Posted April 14, 2022 7 minutes ago, Brodie said: Are you serious Marky? So prey tell us all how putting $2k or so into a tote pool of say $8k is going to be the answer???????? Yeah a lot of common sense in your statement! You can still bet fixed odds. I have been able to place significant bets through both agency and self service Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.