Trainers' costs..

[Freda]

 

An update x trainers association .  WHAT THE MINIMUM WAGE INCREASE MEANS . With the introduction of the additional Public Holiday, Matariki, now ten days sick pay per year and an increase of the minimum wage effective 1^st April 2022  Trainers need to increase their daily charge to recover this cost by $2.92 per day. This of course does not allow for any overhead and margin on the additional cost and is exclusive of gst. Other concerns Trainers should have is the increase in their supply costs because of rising fuel prices and supply constraints which in addition to their labour cost increases is fuelling the current inflationary and interest rate hikes, all will effect Trainers costs and bottom line. any Trainer charging under $95.00 per day would be losing money. Trainers should be charging no less than $125.00 per day.    I Make that $875 a week , not sure if that includes gst .
 

[Freda]

I can honestly say that I don't think any southern-based trainer would be anywhere near those rates - with the exception of the Marsh barn.   

I don't mean to infer that I know what they charge..but simply that I have no information to that effect.

[Chief Stipe]

32 minutes ago, Freda said:

I can honestly say that I don't think any southern-based trainer would be anywhere near those rates - with the exception of the Marsh barn.   

I don't mean to infer that I know what they charge..but simply that I have no information to that effect.

Simple Pam.  Don't charge for you own time and have a primary source of income that isn't from training racehorses.  Then your personal return from training will be the trainers % of the stakes your horses win.  Oh and clip the ticket on sales.

[Freda]

🤥    the pension?  Lol...

Edited May 30, 2022 by Freda

[Chief Stipe]

10 minutes ago, Freda said:

🤥    the pension?  Lol...

Seriously, contrary to the popular view that some of the big stables are raking it in on fees they only make profits on stakes won and sales.

A precarious position I might add but is reflective of how the entire industry is being run by cross subsidisation.

[mikeynz]

3 hours ago, Freda said:

 

An update x trainers association .  WHAT THE MINIMUM WAGE INCREASE MEANS . With the introduction of the additional Public Holiday, Matariki, now ten days sick pay per year and an increase of the minimum wage effective 1^st April 2022  Trainers need to increase their daily charge to recover this cost by $2.92 per day. This of course does not allow for any overhead and margin on the additional cost and is exclusive of gst. Other concerns Trainers should have is the increase in their supply costs because of rising fuel prices and supply constraints which in addition to their labour cost increases is fuelling the current inflationary and interest rate hikes, all will effect Trainers costs and bottom line. any Trainer charging under $95.00 per day would be losing money. Trainers should be charging no less than $125.00 per day.    I Make that $875 a week , not sure if that includes gst .
 

Based on those figures/cost it would be fair to assume that people on the minimum wage may not be getting into horse ownership in the present economic climate.

[Chief Stipe]

Easy peasy.....just have 500 member syndicates!

[Joe Bloggs]

FFS, those trainer charges are more than most charge here on the coast? I know costs are out of control, on the coast [Goldie] they range from $85 to &120, the name trainers are upper end, but by gee there are many good older experienced trainers charging lower level.......and we race for $K75 one hour away up in BNE and $K24 here on Sat and $K35 midweek, how on earth NZ racing has got to where it has in mind numbing.

Costs at Petone and salaries are almost same as here?????? No wonder Saundry crossed the ditch, no wonder Purcell crossed the ditch, and no wonder George is giggling this side of the ditch, when there is no transparency or due diligence and TAB was guilty of the behaviour they exhibited is it any wonder it's come to this.

I know many CD trainers are charging less than 60 bucks a day, to do that you have to cut corners, even riding work yourself only saves so much, peace of mind mainly, so, if the brain donors at the Trainers Association think the owners will cop those fees, well not everyone is a Lindsay, or a Karaman......syndicates might absorb a tad more, but the look is insulting.....racing for bags of Kumaras as Wightman pointed out a decade back is now a reality, transport costs are out of control, so float fees are through the roof, a monopoly doesn't help either, but an AWT may fix that, race day in and day out, only problem, that will soon thin out the quadruped population as it did in Toowoomba and we see with the size of the fields on the Sunshine Coast.

Once the capital gains tax hits town that will kill off the trainer/trader/dealer and bring another downward spiral.

The gambling dollar can only stretch so far, relying on sports betting to inflate the tote revenue streams wont cut the mustard, once the rugby season is over that stream dries up too, how many professional punters live in NZ and bet on domestic racing? I would say zero, zilch, nada.......maybe on Oz racing, but not the domestic product.

Management failed the industry, big time, nothing worse than a midget in a monkey suit and a bullshit bag strutting around blowing their trumpet when everyone knows the industry is laying in ruins......I'll say it how it is, it's fucking disgraceful and heads should roll......

 

 

 

 

[nomates]

Hey Sharrock said betting on the A/W's is up 4% here and 6% in Aus , so things are on the up , but the rate horses are being sold out of the country they will be bringing pony races back on the A/W's . Will trainers charge less because ponies are only 3/4 the size ?.

[Huey]

2 hours ago, nomates said:

Hey Sharrock said betting on the A/W's is up 4% here and 6% in Aus , so things are on the up , but the rate horses are being sold out of the country they will be bringing pony races back on the A/W's . Will trainers charge less because ponies are only 3/4 the size ?.

LMAO , up because they are killing off all the other options in a desperate attempt to have the AWTs made to look successful.  

 

[curious]

Up 4% on what?

[nomates]

8 minutes ago, curious said:

Up 4% on what?

Exactly . 

[nomates]

34 minutes ago, Huey said:

LMAO , up because they are killing off all the other options in a desperate attempt to have the AWTs made to look successful.  

 

I don't know if you watched Sharrock on Weigh In , but crickey he has picked up the dribble lines quickly . Some big things in the pipe line apparently , hopefully there will still someone around to read the media releases .

[Chief Stipe]

8 minutes ago, nomates said:

I don't know if you watched Sharrock on Weigh In , but crickey he has picked up the dribble lines quickly . Some big things in the pipe line apparently , hopefully there will still someone around to read the media releases .

Clipped it for you.

 

[Chief Stipe]

21 minutes ago, curious said:

Up 4% on what?

Exactly.  Probably on their bullshit budget.

Less revenue this year from racing than last year BUT the TAB is up on budget.  Where is @JJ Flash and his McKenzie drum?

[Gospel of Judas]

Remember just got add ambulance in as runner and can increase runners to starters! 😜

[nod]

Prices go  up --in 1960 I was paying $1 a day, 1980s $7-50 and now $68 [plus GST] thats a top stable and there are no extras like vitamins, staff on raceday and public holidays, dry cleaning colours etc. Those that tell you they put the horse in 'the paddock'' after a hard race' should not be charging full rates for those 10 days

I don't pay 10% on any sale as the trainer is aware that it costs around 70K to get a horse to the races and some don't make it--the trainer may get a reward

[Doomed]

13 hours ago, Freda said:

 

An update x trainers association .  WHAT THE MINIMUM WAGE INCREASE MEANS . With the introduction of the additional Public Holiday, Matariki, now ten days sick pay per year and an increase of the minimum wage effective 1^st April 2022  Trainers need to increase their daily charge to recover this cost by $2.92 per day. This of course does not allow for any overhead and margin on the additional cost and is exclusive of gst. Other concerns Trainers should have is the increase in their supply costs because of rising fuel prices and supply constraints which in addition to their labour cost increases is fuelling the current inflationary and interest rate hikes, all will effect Trainers costs and bottom line. any Trainer charging under $95.00 per day would be losing money. Trainers should be charging no less than $125.00 per day.    I Make that $875 a week , not sure if that includes gst .
 

It sounds like they live in a bit of a parallel universe. Do they actually comment on anything useful? For instance, do they advise trainers in Canterbury that there is only one maiden race in Canterbury in almost a four week period and that is restricted to fillies and mares over 1,200m, and on an AWT, and therefore perhaps trainers should turn any maiden that isn't a filly or mare sprinter out for a few weeks to save their owners some money.

[Chief Stipe]

1 hour ago, nod said:

extras like vitamins, staff on raceday and public holidays, dry cleaning colours etc. Those that tell you they put the horse in 'the paddock'' after a hard race' should not be charging full rates for those 10 days

I don't pay 10% on any sale as the trainer is aware that it costs around 70K to get a horse to the races and some don't make it--the trainer may get a reward

Yet at least one stable is very successful using that model of operation and have a solid loyal and large customer base.

[Gospel of Judas]

15 hours ago, Freda said:

 

An update x trainers association .  WHAT THE MINIMUM WAGE INCREASE MEANS . With the introduction of the additional Public Holiday, Matariki, now ten days sick pay per year and an increase of the minimum wage effective 1^st April 2022  Trainers need to increase their daily charge to recover this cost by $2.92 per day. This of course does not allow for any overhead and margin on the additional cost and is exclusive of gst. Other concerns Trainers should have is the increase in their supply costs because of rising fuel prices and supply constraints which in addition to their labour cost increases is fuelling the current inflationary and interest rate hikes, all will effect Trainers costs and bottom line. any Trainer charging under $95.00 per day would be losing money. Trainers should be charging no less than $125.00 per day.    I Make that $875 a week , not sure if that includes gst .
 

Them NZ TAB  and NZTR should all merge. Since all seem  to be living in another universe to as currently. Wonder who in NZ charges these fees per day?

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

Yet at least one stable is very successful using that model of operation and have a solid loyal and large customer base.

I'd like to know their owner turnover.  Yes they might have a lot of owners at any given time but I suspect there would not be a terrible lot of people coming back for a second dose(unless they fluked a Gingernuts or something the first time).  Other than the studs investing in Colts syndicates and the likes of the Lindsay's  who will (I will bet) will have a special deal(as will the studs in the colts I imagine)

I know I was once bitten twice shy and I know someone who is VERY well heeled who will be the same one their nag is finished(and it ain't much good so that will not be far away).  For all that they were very nice to deal with and quite happy to talk and talk on racing even with a very minor client.

[billy connolly]

If it's Ellis you're referring to, he's a businessman playing with other peoples money and no doubt NZ Bloodstock will be carrying him (to a degree) also.

If Ellis was using his own money he'd be buying tried horses with ability, not untried yearlings who may never be able to gallop.

Ellis also has an agistment farm doesn't he, so will be clipping the ticket at every turn but he's been good for racing.

[Chief Stipe]

6 hours ago, billy connolly said:

If it's Ellis you're referring to, he's a businessman playing with other peoples money and no doubt NZ Bloodstock will be carrying him (to a degree) also.

NZ Bloodstock don't offer Te Akau any better payment terms than any of their other major customers.  Payment in full within 30 days.  As for playing with other peoples money isn't that what every Syndicator does?  The Syndicator takes a risk and then has to sell the shares.  For that matter isn't that what a lot of Trainers do?  Play with other people's money?

6 hours ago, billy connolly said:

If Ellis was using his own money he'd be buying tried horses with ability, not untried yearlings who may never be able to gallop.

Isn't that covered by purchasing Ready-To-Run horses?  Te Akau uses the same model as Waller, Maher, Waterhouse and others in OZ.  Surely you are not suggesting that more poaching should occur?

 

[Chief Stipe]

9 hours ago, Reefton said:

I'd like to know their owner turnover.  Yes they might have a lot of owners at any given time but I suspect there would not be a terrible lot of people coming back for a second dose(unless they fluked a Gingernuts or something the first time).  Other than the studs investing in Colts syndicates and the likes of the Lindsay's  who will (I will bet) will have a special deal(as will the studs in the colts I imagine)

Te Akau's owner churn can't be too bad.  I know someone who has tried to buy a share or two in the last two seasons and has missed out because the syndicates were full.  So that would indicate that there is not much churn because attracting new players in the current economic environment and the public perception of racing would make it extremely difficult to sign up newbies.  As for "fluking" a winner - it seems that Te Akau have at least 2 or 3 of those a year!

9 hours ago, Reefton said:

I know I was once bitten twice shy and I know someone who is VERY well heeled who will be the same one their nag is finished(and it ain't much good so that will not be far away).  For all that they were very nice to deal with and quite happy to talk and talk on racing even with a very minor client.

Is it any better or worse elsewhere?  If you were "well heeled" wouldn't you be better to take 5% in 10 Te Akau horses than buy 50% of one with someone else given Te Akau's record?  You know the odds of getting a horse that can even win a race is very long.  

I would say that the biggest determinate of customer churn in the coming two years will be the economy.  Te Akau have been surprisingly loyal to the NZ Racing industry but I can't see how that can continue forever given the huge difference in stakes between here and Australia.  I was very surprised that Jamie Richards chose to go to Hong Kong and not carry the Tangerine flag to a satellite stable in Australia.  I give Jamie no more than two seasons in Hong Kong.

[Reefton]

1 hour ago, Chief Stipe said:

NZ Bloodstock don't offer Te Akau any better payment terms than any of their other major customers.  Payment in full within 30 days. 

 

 

Shows how much you know about the way NZB works.  They are massive financiers of horses sold at their sales.  Half the people buying there would have arrangements with them to finance the nags until owners are found.  There was the famous case a year or two ago of a very prominent buyer/syndicator who was not allowed to bid unless someone was guaranteeing him.

I do not know(and more importantly do not care) if David Ellis uses those financing facilities with NZB nor whether he gets favourable terms from them but they are certainly available.  You would imagine that given the volume of his purchases he would have a pretty sweet deal if he does make use of them but as I say that is his business and between him and Peter Vela.  There is no impact on the run of the mill stakeholder in the game so it is none of their concern.