NZ Racing versus NZ Rugby

[Reefton]

Anyone else seeing a comparison here?  

Embrace a corporate culture and take away control from the grass roots.  Followed by massive disillusionment among the aforementioned grass roots

Look after the elite to an embarassing extent (I know you have to pay the AB's well)

Dwindling domestic attendance even though (in Rugby's case) the product is world class.

Stagnation or retreat at intenational level

And a lack of imagination to right the wrongs.

And blokes just looking to embellish their CV's by being on 'The Board'

If they win this it will be more by good luck than good management

[Joe Bloggs]

And the rest is history......

[Ludwig]

5 hours ago, Reefton said:

Anyone else seeing a comparison here?  

Embrace a corporate culture and take away control from the grass roots.  Followed by massive disillusionment among the aforementioned grass roots

Look after the elite to an embarassing extent (I know you have to pay the AB's well)

Dwindling domestic attendance even though (in Rugby's case) the product is world class.

Stagnation or retreat at intenational level

And a lack of imagination to right the wrongs.

And blokes just looking to embellish their CV's by being on 'The Board'

If they win this it will be more by good luck than good management

I read today that Dame Patsy Reddy has just been appointed to the Nz rugby union board. Fine person, and all that, but  what connection does she have with a local club.

Just another corporate appointment with no connection to the grass roots. Just the same as racing.

[Reefton]

6 hours ago, Ludwig said:

I read today that Dame Patsy Reddy has just been appointed to the Nz rugby union board. Fine person, and all that, but  what connection does she have with a local club.

Just another corporate appointment with no connection to the grass roots. Just the same as racing.

An example of exactly the point I am making.

And then these appointees make selections of unproven personnel then commit the organisation to long term contracts or pathways to destruction.  NZRU will see the writing on the wall and are no doubt going to have to sack someone and pay out a huge contract - NZTR would just grin and bear it.

And the tragedy is in each case there are some super talented super enthusiastic and super concerned people who's views and initiative are totally ignored or belittled.

Tragic

[nomates]

I was at the game last night and i have to say the AB's played the worst half of football i can recall , as much down to the Irish intensity in defence , but the handling and lack of cohesion was poor , i could feel it in the crowd , a lot of anxious fans 20 mins in . 

The poor sportsmanship was what amazed me the most , the booing at conversions and penalties says it all to me , it shows that the fans realised that the team was in trouble and were trying to ensure they didn't have more points to chase . It used to be an unwritten rule in rugby , show good sportmanship and allow the kick to be taken in silence . 

But this all goes back to the corporate takeover of sport , we have seen it in racing , and now rugby is feeling it , people who have no vested interest in the sport other than making it profitable , getting positions of power and a say in what happens , how many AB fans honestly thought that Foster should have got the job ahead of Robertson , how much of it was a corporate decision ahead of a rugby decision .

Look at the Silver Lakes crap , NZRFU were prepared to sell their soul but many of the provinces were worried about it , but suddenly up the amount of booty to each province and suddenly they are all on board , go figure . How much of that will truly get to club land .

AB fans should get used to this , the AB's not being the absolute unspoken champions of the world , money is lower the sporting ambition and elevating making money to the most important factor .

Unfortunately for racing , whilst they have also lowered the standard of our " product " they also can't make money .

Other than that a great night was had and the best "team " won , so funny to be watching AB fans leaving before the final whistle , a real supporter stays and gives them a clap for trying for them , even if poorly , but this is now the world we live in .

[mumbles]

The problems within rugby cannot be solved with handing out money.

Young kids don't want to play the game.

So many other sports on offer and they don't involve the brutality thats often dished out in Rugby and league.

More and more college kids opting for an education rather than rugby.

NZ Rugby will end up like the AFL with nothing below the main team.

[KickintheKods]

Robertson = winning concepts and design and has a unique ability to get his team to play for each other to deliver on field

Foster = inability to get a team to work as a cohesive unit = totally reliant on individual brilliance to get results = too predictable in pattern

Well done to Ireland.

 

 

 

[nomates]

11 minutes ago, mumbles said:

More and more college kids opting for an education rather than rugby.

 

More like opting for I Pads and I Phones along with video games , one day there could be something along the lines of the " Obesity Cup " .

[Turny]

So true Reefton, like a pair of railway tracks.

Rugby and racing both becoming of minimal importance in general society, maybe we have grown up quite apart from p.ss poor leadership

[Joe Bloggs]

43 minutes ago, nomates said:

I was at the game last night and i have to say the AB's played the worst half of football i can recall , as much down to the Irish intensity in defence , but the handling and lack of cohesion was poor , i could feel it in the crowd , a lot of anxious fans 20 mins in . 

The poor sportsmanship was what amazed me the most , the booing at conversions and penalties says it all to me , it shows that the fans realised that the team was in trouble and were trying to ensure they didn't have more points to chase . It used to be an unwritten rule in rugby , show good sportmanship and allow the kick to be taken in silence . 

But this all goes back to the corporate takeover of sport , we have seen it in racing , and now rugby is feeling it , people who have no vested interest in the sport other than making it profitable , getting positions of power and a say in what happens , how many AB fans honestly thought that Foster should have got the job ahead of Robertson , how much of it was a corporate decision ahead of a rugby decision .

Look at the Silver Lakes crap , NZRFU were prepared to sell their soul but many of the provinces were worried about it , but suddenly up the amount of booty to each province and suddenly they are all on board , go figure . How much of that will truly get to club land .

AB fans should get used to this , the AB's not being the absolute unspoken champions of the world , money is lower the sporting ambition and elevating making money to the most important factor .

Unfortunately for racing , whilst they have also lowered the standard of our " product " they also can't make money .

Other than that a great night was had and the best "team " won , so funny to be watching AB fans leaving before the final whistle , a real supporter stays and gives them a clap for trying for them , even if poorly , but this is now the world we live in .

I'm very fortunate to have been to Twickenham to watch the AB's play England, we won both times, however, what got me was the silence when the kickers were taking goal kicks, that's respect and good grace, sadly lacking in NZ and Oz, and yummy enough they both got their comeuppance last night....ah, God works in funny ways.

[Joe Bloggs]

Just now, Joe Bloggs said:

I'm very fortunate to have been to Twickenham to watch the AB's play England, we won both times, however, what got me was the silence when the kickers were taking goal kicks, that's respect and good grace, sadly lacking in NZ and Oz, and yummy enough they both got their comeuppance last night....ah, God works in funny ways.

Funny enough, not yummy...FFS....

[Reefton]

47 minutes ago, nomates said:

I was at the game last night and i have to say the AB's played the worst half of football i can recall , as much down to the Irish intensity in defence , but the handling and lack of cohesion was poor , i could feel it in the crowd , a lot of anxious fans 20 mins in . 

The poor sportsmanship was what amazed me the most , the booing at conversions and penalties says it all to me , it shows that the fans realised that the team was in trouble and were trying to ensure they didn't have more points to chase . It used to be an unwritten rule in rugby , show good sportmanship and allow the kick to be taken in silence . 

But this all goes back to the corporate takeover of sport , we have seen it in racing , and now rugby is feeling it , people who have no vested interest in the sport other than making it profitable , getting positions of power and a say in what happens , how many AB fans honestly thought that Foster should have got the job ahead of Robertson , how much of it was a corporate decision ahead of a rugby decision .

Look at the Silver Lakes crap , NZRFU were prepared to sell their soul but many of the provinces were worried about it , but suddenly up the amount of booty to each province and suddenly they are all on board , go figure . How much of that will truly get to club land .

AB fans should get used to this , the AB's not being the absolute unspoken champions of the world , money is lower the sporting ambition and elevating making money to the most important factor .

Unfortunately for racing , whilst they have also lowered the standard of our " product " they also can't make money .

Other than that a great night was had and the best "team " won , so funny to be watching AB fans leaving before the final whistle , a real supporter stays and gives them a clap for trying for them , even if poorly , but this is now the world we live in .

Well my irish mates would like it recorded they had a great night!

[Reefton]

A I just hear that NZ rugby allowed the AB's to not turn up to an arranged and standard after test press conference this morning.   How arrogant is that but how similar to the attitude of those running NZ racing?    Make a fool of the game then refuse to answer questions and explain yourself 

[Freda]

Agree with above comments, the lack of sportmanship and grace a sad commentary on the sort of folk we have, collectively,  become.  How often is the ref lambasted, or the hapless defeated team rubbished for being 'useless '  ?     yes, they may have not have played to the expectations of many, but they didn't go out to get beaten.

 They have done their best and deserve applause for so doing. 

  And how often is the small trainer given an accolade for winning with their pride and joy?

Inevitably, though, an indecent rush to shove the mike under the  nose of one of the highflyers...  great training feat, intones the commentator, for a 1000m win after a sort let-up. 

FFS.

[Reefton]

30 minutes ago, Freda said:

Agree with above comments, the lack of sportmanship and grace a sad commentary on the sort of folk we have, collectively,  become.  How often is the ref lambasted, or the hapless defeated team rubbished for being 'useless '  ?     yes, they may have not have played to the expectations of many, but they didn't go out to get beaten.

 They have done their best and deserve applause for so doing. 

  And how often is the small trainer given an accolade for winning with their pride and joy?

Inevitably, though, an indecent rush to shove the mike under the  nose of one of the highflyers...  great training feat, intones the commentator, for a 1000m win after a sort let-up. 

FFS.

Yes and in a case like yours Pam how many of the high flyers of  the NZTR or TAB boards would have thought of what you would do as second nature.  Jump out of bed at four on a freezing winters morning, sort the rest of the team out then get in a float with a hopeful to run in knee deep mud on an industry midweek day. 150 people in attendance.   Get home long after dark then attend to the rest of the team again, stagger home and slump into bed disappointed (again!).  Wake up next morning and go again.

The sort of thing that makes this game of ours and is totally forgotten about when the fat cats sit down at an NZTR Board Meeting.

Of in a rugby scenario how many think of the women who spent years making food for the after match or who spend hours scrubbing filthy grass and mud stained jerseys so the team looks sharp as next Saturday.  

The forget where the hard work is really done

[nomates]

1 hour ago, Reefton said:

A I just hear that NZ rugby allowed the AB's to not turn up to an arranged and standard after test press conference this morning.   How arrogant is that but how similar to the attitude of those running NZ racing?    Make a fool of the game then refuse to answer questions and explain yourself 

And they wonder why people like myself and other nations supporters dislike them , they have always worn an air of superiority and arrogance that has made them easy to dislike . That arrogance is starting to wear thin .

[mumbles]

2 hours ago, Freda said:

Agree with above comments, the lack of sportmanship and grace a sad commentary on the sort of folk we have, collectively,  become.  How often is the ref lambasted, or the hapless defeated team rubbished for being 'useless '  ?     yes, they may have not have played to the expectations of many, but they didn't go out to get beaten.

 They have done their best and deserve applause for so doing. 

  And how often is the small trainer given an accolade for winning with their pride and joy?

Inevitably, though, an indecent rush to shove the mike under the  nose of one of the highflyers...  great training feat, intones the commentator, for a 1000m win after a sort let-up. 

FFS.

Unlike trainers whose horse runs a bad last the AllBlacks can get well beaten and still get a cheque until the contract runs out.

[Doomed]

4 hours ago, nomates said:

I was at the game last night and i have to say the AB's played the worst half of football i can recall , as much down to the Irish intensity in defence , but the handling and lack of cohesion was poor , i could feel it in the crowd , a lot of anxious fans 20 mins in . 

The poor sportsmanship was what amazed me the most , the booing at conversions and penalties says it all to me , it shows that the fans realised that the team was in trouble and were trying to ensure they didn't have more points to chase . It used to be an unwritten rule in rugby , show good sportmanship and allow the kick to be taken in silence . 

But this all goes back to the corporate takeover of sport , we have seen it in racing , and now rugby is feeling it , people who have no vested interest in the sport other than making it profitable , getting positions of power and a say in what happens , how many AB fans honestly thought that Foster should have got the job ahead of Robertson , how much of it was a corporate decision ahead of a rugby decision .

Look at the Silver Lakes crap , NZRFU were prepared to sell their soul but many of the provinces were worried about it , but suddenly up the amount of booty to each province and suddenly they are all on board , go figure . How much of that will truly get to club land .

AB fans should get used to this , the AB's not being the absolute unspoken champions of the world , money is lower the sporting ambition and elevating making money to the most important factor .

Unfortunately for racing , whilst they have also lowered the standard of our " product " they also can't make money .

Other than that a great night was had and the best "team " won , so funny to be watching AB fans leaving before the final whistle , a real supporter stays and gives them a clap for trying for them , even if poorly , but this is now the world we live in .

I was there as well. The booing when the Irish took kicks at goal was pretty sad. The crowd around where I was were pretty good natured, lots of Irish about as well. And afterwards the crowd was pretty relaxed. The odds were crazy. People were deluded to think the ABs should be $1.27 favs. They obviously have no idea how to analyse form. At least the Blacks were so bad people couldn't blame the ref. The worst bit of the night was some half wit in a bright suit who did the so called pre match entertainment. What an embarrassment that was. At least people didn't have to watch that on TV.

[Joe Bloggs]

16 minutes ago, Doomed said:

I was there as well. The booing when the Irish took kicks at goal was pretty sad. The crowd around where I was were pretty good natured, lots of Irish about as well. And afterwards the crowd was pretty relaxed. The odds were crazy. People were deluded to think the ABs should be $1.27 favs. They obviously have no idea how to analyse form. At least the Blacks were so bad people couldn't blame the ref. The worst bit of the night was some half wit in a bright suit who did the so called pre match entertainment. What an embarrassment that was. At least people didn't have to watch that on TV.

The bloke in the bright suit? he hasn't got a part time job in Jackson St Petone by chance has he?

[Chief Stipe]

23 hours ago, Joe Bloggs said:

I'm very fortunate to have been to Twickenham to watch the AB's play England, we won both times, however, what got me was the silence when the kickers were taking goal kicks, that's respect and good grace, sadly lacking in NZ and Oz

What year were those tests?

[Chief Stipe]

On 17/07/2022 at 11:23 AM, nomates said:

But this all goes back to the corporate takeover of sport , we have seen it in racing , and now rugby is feeling it , people who have no vested interest in the sport other than making it profitable ,

Rubbish.  Surely you can't be arguing that we go back to the old days where local communities ran cake stalls to help get their young players to All Black trials?

Each of the home nations unions generate over NZD$200m a year.

The French Rugby Union Clubs generate over NZD$750m per annum.

Even the Japanese Clubs and Union are generating significant levels of revenue.

The difficulty the NZRFU has is generating enough revenue to compete.

However the current woeful display is cyclical not helped by poor selections and poor coaching.  Why they need 7 individuals in the coaching team is beyond belief!

The question you all should be asking is why is the Crusaders the most successful Super Rugby franchise ever?  They've won 11 full titles and 2 regional titles with the last 6 in a row. 

Meanwhile Riccarton/CJC is still going backwards and will be lucky to retain the Guineas races soon.  Why?  Poor management, a lack of financial focus on the core product and no returns to owners.  

[Chief Stipe]

On 17/07/2022 at 8:51 AM, Reefton said:

And then these appointees make selections of unproven personnel then commit the organisation to long term contracts or pathways to destruction.

Which personnel in the coaching team of 7 are "unproven"?

[Joe Bloggs]

37 minutes ago, Chief Stipe said:

What year were those tests?

2009 AND 2013, Great memories for me, made a business trip coincide with the rugby.....funny that.

[Gammalite]

What's going on ? The poms just beat the Wallabies 2-1 here in Oz as well as the Irish winning there ?

I blame covid lol.... f..ed everything else up 😉. One Fan on side-line here, blamed the England coach Eddie Jones (former Oz coach) for being a traitor straight after the match , and security was needed to keep them apart ! lol...  at least there was something funny happening 😂

[Reefton]

2 hours ago, Chief Stipe said:

Which personnel in the coaching team of 7 are "unproven"?

Have a look at the head coaching record of the head coach.  I do not, for all that, want to get on the bandwagon to tear the man down(he is doing a fine job of that himself from where I am sitting).   This thread was started to compare the admin and modus operandi of the two organisations not try to destroy one bloke who is having a bad time.   His only opposition at the time of appointment had won how many Super titles from how many attempts?  Can you tell me how many the successful candidate had won from how many attempts?(clue: the former's form line resembles that of Winx)  Or for that matter what the success rate of the current guy's assistants is(Plumtree has won one hasn't he?)  Not sure if any of the others have even coached a Super Rugby side let alone a title winning one..

I am even less of an expert on rugby than I am on racing so this is only opinion but in my view there are a multitude of top quality coaches in NZ and accordingly they should be on four year rotations to tie into the World Cup cycle.   Henry then his apprentice Hansen then his apprentice Foster gives coming up 18 years of a similar philosophy and in simple terms the world has caught up with and clearly gone past NZ in some cases.  In the meantime there has been a bit of a succession of talent flying away frustrated at an inability to get a look in for the top job.  You can tell by the guarded comments of the players(Savea would hardly look at the camera) and the Union itself that there are issues there.

And the comparison to NZ Racing?  Well after about ten foreigners filling the CEO's job(the question being 'Given the state of NZ racing why the hell would anyone want to come here to try to rescue it?  Unless they aren't up to the mark elsewhere that is.') they have finally appointed, without a selection process, a Kiwi.  The lucky bloke has so far impressed us with his name dropping ability but not a lot else.  And that telling us all about all the rich and famous he has worked with in the past leads once more to the question 'What the f*#k would you want with the NZTR job if you are that well connected?'

 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Reefton
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